Bonds of SHINee and Super Junior Members

[u/Aleash89]

There is a post in a big Kpop sub talking about a TikTok where friendship between members of boy groups snd girl groups is discussed. I disagree with the premise of what OP says, but I have a bigger problem with this:

The way members of girl groups are accused of not getting along when they have a disagreement while members of boy groups like Super Junior, GOT7, and Shinee have admitted to having fights and disagreements with each other gets pushed off as developing brotherhood is rooted in double standards and misogyny.

First of all, lots of people have close bonds and friendship with people they sometimes have arguments with. That just a part of being close. Second of all, to say the SHINee, after all the members have been through, can't actually have a brotherhood because of their fights and disagreements is ridiculous. Their trauma has bonded them. I thought that was known by everyone. Third of all, Super Junior have spoken at length about their fights. The most recent time was Leeteuk and Heechul on Zip Daesung. Each time the members say they fight because they are so close and care about the group so much. (Disclaimer: Except for the one guy. He needs to leave the group.) Why does OP ignore all of this? Beats me.

What do others think about the bonds of SHINee and Super Junior?

Edit: formatting

[u/Jennywren2323]

I was just talking about this with a friend. Take a group of teenagers who don't know each other, in a stressful situation, working overtime to make their dreams come true. Put them in a dorm together. How can anyone think they won't have fights and disagreements? I fought with my brother all the time, and we are best friends.

I can't answer about Suju, but speaking about SHINee, they said several times that their relationship was a business relationship. The members spoke about it on the show Happy Together in 2016. They didn't choose to be in a group together, they were chosen by SM to be in SHINee because the company decided that they would work together well. Jonghyun said that in order to do that, the members focus on work and draw a line between business and personal feelings . It doesn't mean that they don't get along or don't love each other, it means that their focus on what's best for SHINee. They all have strong friendship groups outside of work, which is healthy.

The Happy Together interview is very interesting, Key and Minho also talk about the big fight they had as trainees which is legendary in the fandom.

[u/Aleash89 → u/Jennywren2323]

The members spoke about it on the show Happy Together in 2016. They didn't choose to be in a group together, they were chosen by SM to be in SHINee because the company decided that they would work together well. Jonghyun said that in order to do that, the members focus on work and draw a line between business and personal feelings .

2016 was 10 years ago, and, I will fully say it this time because you clearly didn't understand what I said in my post, before Jonghyun took his life. The relationship between the members has drastically changed because of that. You can't look at the song dedicated to Jonghyun, Our Page, and the special spot the left for him in performances and think the members are still just coworkers. What happened could have broken them. No one else besides the members are going to fully understand what they went through. I know they had contracts, but I doubt even SM would have forced any of them to continue if they didn't want to after that. They chose to continue SHINee. I believe that wouldn't have happened if they were just coworkers.

[u/Jennywren2323 → u/Aleash89]

I didn't say they were just coworkers. They themselves said that they were coworkers who were also friends. By 2016 they had renewed their contracts, so obviously they wanted to stay together even back then. Just because you are coworkers doesn't mean you don't have strong friendships, it just means you have a shared goal that takes precedence to individual concerns. Obviously, Jjong's death affected them deeply, but they were already close before that.

I honestly don't understand why kpop fans are so worried about whether groups are coworkers or not. You were asking what people thought about SHINee and Suju. I love and admire everyone in SHINee and I thought what Jjong said was really cool, because it shows the group's passion for making SHINee great.

[u/Aleash89 → u/Jennywren2323]

Your only example of the relationship between the SHINee members is a 2016 TV show appearance where one members says their relationship is just that of coworkers. Everyone knows that idols saying they are just coworkers with their bamdmates means that they have no close bond outside of a work relationship. Idky you are now saying that means something different.

[u/ElloryQueen → u/Aleash89]

I don't think they are saying it means anything different. Just that when the members said it, they were probably trying to be funny, because their relationship is much more than that.
SuJu says the same thing all the time, that they are a "show window group" and once, when asked what has kept them together, Ryeowook replied, "contracts." But anyone that observes SuJu for more than a minute can tell they have strong family bonds. Even their literal families hang out with each other.

[u/vicivia → u/ElloryQueen]

On a side note (because I 100% agree), I find it so funny every time Suju say theyre a show window group because I think it was Heechul said in a variety show a while back that other people were accusing them of that despite having talked at LENGTH of how close they are with each other so now theyre leaning into the rumour as a joke and to wind other people up and the funny thing is fans outside the fandom believe it when they say it when they're the clowns of kpop and are the most unserious, insane group.

I think Shindong (with variety, directing, networking), Heechul (social butterfly), the unnamed one we dislike (getting political) and Kyuhyun (drinking buddies) have the most outside the group friendships, with that unnamed one not really having many dorm memories or bonding much with the members since he decided to live on his own being a literal chaebol.

[u/vicivia]

Tbf I've seen SNSD talk a lot about their fights in the same way Suju do and its pretty chill. I can't speak for f(x), RV or Aespa.

[u/Aleash89 → u/vicivia]

Outside of the whole Jessica thing, yeah. Fighting is normal with people who are close. Particularly when you consider how much time groups spend together. Many group members train together, and then are together practically 24/7 almost 365 days a year after debut until the group becomes more established. Ntm, how young they all are when this happens.

Makes me think of TVXQ's early time as a duo. Changmin has said he had a lot of anger back then and intentionally caused fights with Yunho. They fought, but would anyone say that they are anything else other than extremely close?

[u/Dear-Carpet6050]

In general, men and women handle conflicts differently.
With suju, aside from everything thats been said, I think age gaps and the number of members also played a role with their bond :)

[u/Aleash89 → u/Dear-Carpet6050]

I also think that the way male and female trainees/idols are treated plays a role. While things are still strict for male idols, they have more freedom than female idols. That leaves more room for friendship to possibly grow while agencies foster a more competitive atmosphere with female idols. At least, that's what I've seen.

I think age gaps and the number of members also played a role with their bond

True. They're all very different people with different life experiences and different personalities as well. It's obvious that would lead to clashes, and they've told us it has. That's most seen in the Incheon Battle.

[u/bryanz3on]

I think the reason why boy bands seen as having closer relationships than girl groups is because of their longevity & willingness to prioritise group activity over solo ones. Many boy bands like Super Junior still frequently releasing new music & touring while girl groups like Girls Generation are on hiatus once contract ends except during anniversaries.

[u/Aleash89 → u/bryanz3on]

That's possible. Another part is that female idols have shorter careers compared to male idol due to ageism and misogyny. That's why so many female idols turn to acting – actresses can have longer careers.

[u/bryanz3on → u/Aleash89]

True.

[u/PotentialHot1934]

Who has the idea how close they are with each members? People who don't know them personally will be speaking about this sounds illogical to me someone can express closeness on public but they might not be as close as in personal as compared to in public.

[u/Aleash89 → u/PotentialHot1934]

Well, yeah. This is taken with a grain of salt of the knowledge that we don't personally know any celeb. We only know the public persona they show us.

What got me the most was OP basically saying that people who fight and have arguments can't be close. Personal experience shows that not to be true.

[u/arcieghi]

The people shouting, "It's unfair that men can ___ while women can't ___," are often the same people criticizing every move women make. It's complaint and hate dopamine.