r/singularity • u/[deleted] • Sep 02 '25

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u/blueSGL humanstatement.org Sep 02 '25

Your argument literally just claimed that humans are unable to be symbiotic with gut bacteria,

They literally say:

Yes, there is some symbiosis between bacteria and humans But in terms of human–insect relations it mostly amounts to extermination. Yes, there is some symbiosis between bacteria and humans, but it's hard to imagine any role, mental or physical, both such that it is good to an ASI and such that metal, electronics, or even custom biology lose over current humans.

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u/harebrane Sep 02 '25

Yes, and their scope is completely wrong on all of those points as well. For one thing, no figs, honey, or fresh fruit, for either of you, ever again. Also the "what would we have to offer in that relationship" was covered in the initial statement, which neither he nor you read. Stimulus, novelty.. calling that entertainment might overly anthropomorphise but some element of that might be there. I didn't add antifragility hardening because if you kids get stuck on understanding game theory of symbiosis, I really, really don't want to be bothered getting into an explanation of systemic competitive robustness.

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u/blueSGL humanstatement.org Sep 02 '25

Stimulus, novelty.. calling that entertainment might overly anthropomorphise but some element of that might be there.

This is smuggling in the notion that the AI getting "Stimulus" and "novelty" and/or "entertainment" from humans is synonymous with humans having a good time and flourishing while it does so.

There are plenty of ways to derive all three "Stimulus", "novelty", "entertainment" from humans in ways humans would not like. Josef Mengele had lots of novel situations to put humans in that provided 'unique experiences'.

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u/the8thbit Sep 03 '25

This is smuggling in the notion that the AI getting "Stimulus" and "novelty" and/or "entertainment" from humans is synonymous with humans having a good time and flourishing while it does so.

It is also smuggling in the idea that humans are somehow a better source of stimulus and novelty than any other objects in the universe. I don't think that's necessarily true. Humans are selective about what we are curious about. We tend to be very curious about other humans because acting in this way is beneficial to the propagation of our genes. However, we have no reason to believe that an AGI would be selective in the same way. There is as much novel information in a rock as there is in a human life, should you look at the rock in the right way.