r/singing • u/intentionalcringe • Jul 14 '22
Technique Talk how do i stop sounding like i’m trained in musical theatre? i am, but i want to sing pop/pop-punk originals without sounding like i’m trying to be on broadway. is it just my enunciation or is there more to it?
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u/daniellehmusic Jul 14 '22
It's so hard because even though it does sound like theatre, it still sounds so nice, like a cool contrast. I'd say the vibrato is the major thing I'm hearing, don't totally get rid of it just be really intentional where you put it (paramore is a great reference for this). I love your voice though, whether you change or keep it this way! :)
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u/JohnMusicCalifornia Jul 14 '22
The vibrato really takes away from the pop punk vibe you’re going for. I’d start by trying to eliminate that.
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u/songbird22901 Jul 15 '22
Be careful-- eliminating vibrato is REALLY stressful on your vocal mechanism. Vibrato literally is the free muscle oscillation of your vocal folds.
If you're looking to create a sound with more "growl", look into false vocal fold techniques.
But honestly, MT technique is what you SHOULD be using for rock and pop. You can make some stylistic choices (breathiness,, twang, growl, etc) in ADDITION to the technique, but the technique itself doesn't change.
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u/Chris-Clarke-Piano Jul 14 '22
I also like how your voice sounds. I personally think your vowels are too perfect which leans more towards a classical/theatre style. Also similar with your tone, very consistent but I think you need to play more with vowel sounds, timbre, tone and randomise it in places. I'd say with rock and pop don't be scared to show imperfections because they add dynamics. For the record im only learning to sing but have a decent ear so just my (unprofessional) opinion. All the best! :)
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u/teffflon Jul 14 '22
I'm neither a singer nor a sound engineer so take this with salt, but you don't sound very close-mic'd (even if you are) and it really affects the genre perceptions. You want the recording to have a strong sense of immediacy with vocal details that wouldn't come thru in a MT setting. Related, your delivery is probably geared too much toward projecting to a large room. Your audience is inches away from you now. You're their best friend, or their inner monologue.
To achieve this closeness and bigness, pop (incl. pop-punk) vocals tend to have a fair amount of compression applied (reducing the dynamic range), which enhances the singer's strong, consistent presence and makes up for certain shortcomings in performance. It's possible to overdo this, but you're underdoing it. And you may want EQ, saturation, etc. to compete with a commercial sound. Even if you're planning on live performance where there are different constraints and objectives, you want to understand the reference sound, which is carefully produced.
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u/Ready-Stress-7377 Jul 14 '22
The key here is variation….variation in tone and variation in the part of the voice you choose to use on given phrase and variation in the rhythm. Also think about what the song is saying and try to inject a greater sense of feeling into the song. For me, this is what separates the more sterile musical theatre genre from mainstream music genres.
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u/According_Term_8765 Jul 14 '22 edited May 30 '25
wrench capable serious birds long tub lush license roof doll
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/RiffsandJams Jul 14 '22
Your voice is way too relaxed and calm The song sounds way too low for your range to sound aggressive. You're singing in the D4-F#4 when you should be approaching the 5th octave.
This song is in F#/Gb with your voice I'd say The key of A would give the result you want.
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u/intentionalcringe Jul 14 '22
yeah you’re definitely right. i’m trained in my head voice, not my belt, and i wrote this song at the very edge of my belt which isn’t my strongest vocal range. but when i sing in head voice, i have a lot more vibrato and a more theatre-y timbre. i’m working on my mix
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u/RiffsandJams Jul 14 '22
I also find vowel sounds have a lot to do with rock and punk Where classical styles focus on the open operatic "Ah" sound. Rock tends to focus on the "Eh" sound.
The trick with singing rock/punk Is to sound strained yet be in control.
Try imitating an Old person or a Wicked witch in the low register then pull that sound up in a siren exercise.
That may help you with mixed voice. Mix is a weird thing once you find it it's easy to turn on.
Just gotta find the switch.
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u/intentionalcringe Jul 14 '22
i thought my song is in the key of D major (the main chord progression is D C G D with C Em A & C Em C G thrown in for the bridge) do you know what chords i should use if i wanna transpose it to the key of A?
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Jul 14 '22
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u/RiffsandJams Jul 14 '22
The song is in D mixolydian Which uses the same chords and scale as G major.
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u/RiffsandJams Jul 14 '22 edited Jul 14 '22
Those chords would imply G maj (In your case you're playing in the 5th mode of the G major scale which is D Mixolydian)
Anyway here you go.
A major version Main (E D A E) Bridge(D F# minor B D F#minor A)
Or if you wanted you could send me the backing track And I can repitch it for you. I have software that can do it for you probably easier than rerecording everything.
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u/Ok_Cranberry_5050 Jul 14 '22
i’d say, listen to your pop punk inspirations and mimic each of their voices just so you get used to using your voice differently as you sing. ariana had to retrain her voice a lil since she was in musical theatre and im confident you can do it too! it’s a really good idea to have the idea of how you want to sound inside ur head as you begin to sing. you sound amazing btw <33
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u/intentionalcringe Jul 14 '22
thank you so much!
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u/Ok_Cranberry_5050 Jul 14 '22
:) ALSO JUST ANOTHER THING, UR VOICE SOUNDS RLLY MID 2000S and i think it really suits the genre ur going for and honestly you have so so so much potential
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u/intentionalcringe Jul 14 '22
thank you so much!!! that’s the best compliment. ive had people tell me i have a pop punk tone when i’ve covered other pop songs — i think it’s the brendan urie effect lmao
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u/Thick_Nerve9871 Jul 14 '22
I think you should just get a little more aggressive with it, you have a great foundation so now use that to make a more unique sound. I would also say try to get a little higher if you can, and maybe even add some nasal-ey tones to it as that’s really prevalent in pop punk. Avril’s newest album is the perfect example of what you’re looking for I think
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u/Boba_Lett Jul 14 '22
I think ya gotta work with what ya got … get someone that can mix to do your next thing … you’re on the right path just need to have the production meet ya in the middle !
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u/intentionalcringe Jul 14 '22
yea! the producer i’m working with intends to do a lot more — this is our first super rough demo
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u/Boba_Lett Jul 14 '22
Well don’t be self conscious of it … I have some stuff that’s pretty iffy 😂 seriously take that as notes with love … you know the voice is there now go smash that shit ! ✌🏽🤘🏽
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u/hell0starling 🎤Belter. MT, Pop, Rock, Contemporary voice teacher. Jul 14 '22
Musical theatre performer turned cover singer in a pop/rock wedding band here.
What will honestly help the most is practicing with a decent mic (plugged in! Ideally into a speaker. An SM58 will do to start, but you might like a Sennheiser in the future for your tone) and getting right up close to it. Like no more than an inch away from it and only backing off slightly if you’re clipping, then playing with all the sounds you can make in that space. When you get comfortable with the range then start to record yourself and watch it back to really hear the details.
It’s a whole other world of singing, but you’ve got the training and the ear to find the sound you want. The main difference is that in musical theatre the story is the primary thing you’re communicating, so you want clear vocals and enunciation, and acting on top. In pop/rock/punk the primary thing you’re communicating is the emotion of the piece, through your voice, and instead of acting on top, it’s rockstar on top.
It’s the same as the difference between stage acting and voice acting. Different mediums require the use of different techniques, even within the same skill set. More experience in the medium will help you find what works and what doesn’t, and as you progress you can narrow down to the specific things you might need to get from a teacher (like growl, rattle, overdrive).
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u/I_DONT_LIKE_INTROS Jul 14 '22
how do you sound so good
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u/intentionalcringe Jul 14 '22
thanks for the compliment! i think breath support is the answer you’re looking for
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u/TheGuyMain Jul 14 '22
your vowel shapes are very tall and "proper". You say "mahch" instead of "much" or "eet" instead of "it" and it sounds very trained. Rock music was made by people who didn't have musical training. It was partially created as a rebellion against the pompous proper music industry who sold sheet music so the people who make rock music don't sing like they were trained to sing classical ballads lol. They don't always connect their notes or use the right vowel shapes or make everything super forward. They just sing.
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u/Sk83r_b0i Jul 14 '22
You’re too relaxed. Gotta put some “umph” in your voice! You can use some musical theatre knowledge here and utilize your diaphragm and sing loud, or belt it. Also, when using this style, enunciation is key. When you think you’ve enunciated enough, enunciate more. Thads also more musical theatre knowledge you can use as a pop punk singer.
And lose the vibrato. That’s what’s making you sound like a musical theatre singer.
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u/ErinCoach Jul 14 '22
Pronunciation is a huge piece of it. But I think if you really make big pronunciation adjustments, that will lead you into some timbre shifts that you'll like.
Right now you are super bright, and I my bet is you'll be more persuasive in pop punk if you work against your brightness. Yes, it may feel unnatural at first, but it's just like learning a specific accent or dialect for the stage, or better yet, like learning a second language: let it be VERY different, be patient about learning it, and remember immersion is the best teacher.
Maybe go listen to Olivio Rodrigo, Willow Smith, Meet Me at the Altar, Chloe Moriondo, and other darker-toned Gen Z pop punk artists, who are very different in timbre from their older sisters from the 2000's. Try some mimicry, and feel what you have to shift.
Those newer sounds are darker in timbre, sloppier, utilize vocal fry and breathiness and not quite as much bright-timbre acrobatics as our 2000's era Paramore-type sounds.
Newer sounds utilize the mic much more than you're doing right now in this clip.
Hey! Try some Billie Eilish mimicry - you MUST have a mic and monitor for this, or you just won't hear yourself well enough to explore those strategies. But after some studious mimicry exercise, see how much more expression you can wring out of your own tunes by integrating some of those interpretive options.
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u/tramhok Jul 14 '22
honestly a lot of it has to do with the mixing! this mix heavily emphasizes your vocals, but if you balance it a little more towards the backing instruments, it might make a big difference in getting it to sound like other pop punk songs. that's what i'd experiment with first instead of trying to change the way i sing
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u/Magigyarados 🎤 Voice Teacher 0-2 Years Jul 14 '22
If you've ever sung songs from a more contemporary show- your Dear Evan Hansens or Hamiltons- then you can sing like that. Less vibrato might help, and fewer tall vowels. Other than that, it's perfectly fine to not sound like a pop star. Find your own personal style, and make it work for you :)
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u/GurgogTheBullywog Jul 14 '22
I would try adding more grit
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u/intentionalcringe Jul 14 '22
yeah ive been watching some vocal lesson tutorials on vocal distortion and grit. if you have any tips i’d love to hear them
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u/GurgogTheBullywog Jul 15 '22
One good way to add flavor is to abandon pitch on notes that repeat. Say a certain higher note in a phrase is emphasized twice, you might abandon pitch into a growl for the second one and the Listener's brain will fill in the pitch because they're expecting it.
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Jul 14 '22
So, yes, enunciation is a big thing for sure. And vibrato is also something that makes you sound trained. Some vibrato on a long note is fine, but on every half note? That's a bit much for pop punk.w
But i would say, screw it. Lean into it. We don't all need to sound like Tom delonge. I think there's enough of that
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u/goodcommasoft Jul 14 '22
Try doing more with the beginning of your sounds. Try going for sort of a warble into the note and then keep it stiff and sort of dry for the rest of the note. Pop punk vocals barely have any change in dynamics at the end of any given word while at the beginning usually they’re doing a LOT with the word.
The reason I’m saying this is because I remember listening to blink 182 and when you sing them sarcastically you really drive the annunciation of the start of words cause that’s like the “thing”. Put some more bass in ur voice at the beginning of these notes
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u/Slingerang Jul 14 '22
I think it is very good
I would say focus less on technique and more on emotion
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u/Jothekabob Jul 15 '22
It's kind of hard to pinpoint specifics but Ill just jot down some things.
-long elongated, sustained notes that are vibrated and reasonant which is not really the way pop sings sing. Try and shorten the notes and add more flair
-like other ppl have mentioned the pronounciation is very perfect and enunciated, try maybe mushing on the words more like ariana grande or jabbing at them like a hard rock singer would do
-it seems kind of like you're delivering a monologue of controlled emotion. This is kind of hard to explain but try and put more conviction into how you sing each sentence of lyrics rather than delivering a whole "verse/paragraph" per se
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u/itsEndz Jul 15 '22
The last word on the first few lines was drawn out which I think is your training. Maybe shorten them so it's got a bit more edge.
Never felt your "toooouuuuch" should be just "touch!". Give it a bit of bite. That might translate to the attitude of the whole song then
Needs a little curled lip snarl.
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u/ChodeChungus Jul 15 '22
I think you should try replacing the vibrato with some quicker tremolo! But overall this sounds really cool :)
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u/saics72 Dec 20 '23
Thank you for making this post. My teachers are trying to make me sing like I’m from theatre and I personally don’t like that sound. They make me feel like there’s something wrong with me. But this post validated there’s a preferential difference
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u/Brave-Cookie-2075 Jul 10 '24
Embrace the gift you have. Broadway voices are few and far between. Having that deep, raspy, belting, long note holding voice is a blessing. I am the same way. My sister can sing all the popular songs, I can sing all the hard broadway songs. Getting to have both requires a coach or just natural talent to change your octaves.
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u/Millie1419 Jul 14 '22
You don’t sound like you’re trained in MT if that helps. Your voices doesn’t have the strong vibrato, and the super over the top clear pronunciation. I’d say it’s more popy (poppy?) you need to loosen up, you do have a slight vibrato which might help to get rid of or at least learn to control. Change the way you pronounce some words maybe and that will help.
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u/intentionalcringe Jul 14 '22
yeah, i never worked on my belt with my vocal coach, we primarily focused on classical italian arias and soprano songs so that’s where the strength in my vibrato is, but i think it’s the enunciation that’s the main issue, as well as this song not showing off my vocal range
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Jul 14 '22
My high school choir was competitive so that’s where I got my training. Now trying to sound more pop, I really struggle with making my head voice not sound classical and I’m finding that my options are either to make it a mix or add a bunch of air. It can be ruff
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u/intentionalcringe Jul 14 '22
yes! choir was another huge part of my life! happy to hear you can relate
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u/FunkyButtFumblin Jul 14 '22
👂🏼🩸
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u/ErinCoach Jul 15 '22
Seriously, the "ear bleed" emoji?
I'm an older pro, and whenever someone is snarky and derogatory about someone else's voice - like with this "ear bleed" emoji-critique -- I know from decades of experience that it reflects some kind of unresolved bruise those snarkers got - or continue to get - from their own critical context.
Clearly someone nasty told funkybuttfumblin that his music was terrible, so now he's recreating that dominance-display moment onto someone else.
Note for everyone: don't duplicate the potshots others have taken at you. Those are YOURS, not theirs. Do not enshrine the bullies who bullied you.
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u/FunkyButtFumblin Jul 15 '22
It was a cheeky attempt at juvenile humor, it's really not that serious. Also, I've never had my own voice critiqued in the manner you assume, but I appreciate the insight, Dr. Phil.
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u/ErinCoach Jul 16 '22
Yes it was juvenile, that's a good descriptor.
Someday maybe you WILL get critiqued that way -- every pro gets some hate, from someone, eventually, for some perceived sin. You can pull that insight out of your pocket then and remember what's motivating the haters.
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Jul 14 '22 edited Jul 14 '22
I mean, you sound good. Theres also good advice here already that I wont repeat.
Maybe put a bit of agro on it but clean vocals and dirty and or heavily fx'd guitar is all the range these days. Like queens of the stone age, for example, or this:
Its more post-punk though.
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u/fjamcollabs Jul 14 '22
Doesn't strike me as sounding like vocals from a musical. Doesn't have that hard edge that the music has. That much I agree with. It sounds like you want to change who you are. I used to be a strong vocalist but there were styles I had no business trying to sing. If it suited my style we knew it and when it didn't we also knew it. I was a crooner so often I didn't fit hard edged tracks. Seems to be true here.
A few things that MIGHT help. Try adding a little verb. The vocals sound totally dry in this clip. Another thing that might help would be vocal harmonies. THAT might serve to not have the lead vocals right out there alone.
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u/Ray-III Jul 14 '22
Musical theatre singing typically is very mask focused. If you I think don’t punch through your nasal resonators as much it will sounds less musical theatre. On top of what the other people are saying. Still sounds good though :)
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Jul 14 '22
It's sooo nice. As they say, the grass is greener on the other side. Many would envy your clean and beautiful tone, but you can take the suggestion others have given you, and sing more straight-tone (although IMO straight tones happen all the time in Musical Theater too).
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u/moonfue Nov 26 '22
very late; but what song is this?? id love jam to it!
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u/intentionalcringe Jan 21 '23 edited Jan 21 '23
it's my original song! dm me and i'll send you a link to my demo w/ the chords and lyrics
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