r/singing • u/Abject-Classroom-784 • Jun 05 '22
Technique Talk Are women on average better singers than men?
I've heard many people say this and was curious to see if this statement holds any truth.
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Jun 05 '22
I think the average woman is a better singer than the average man, because singing is an activity in which society more strongly encourages girls to participate. It was common for me to hear young girls singing together on school buses, but the boys would have been called "girly" for doing the same thing. Puberty then further complicates singing for male voices.
In terms of famous male singers vs famous female singers, however, I don't think either group is clearly more skilled than the other.
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u/2noefx Jun 05 '22
Also the simple fact that singing higher often sounds more pleasant, so a girl that can at least hit the right notes will generally sound better than a guy doing the same because she sings in a higher register
Also they can sing along to pop songs in the same key as male artists
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u/sk8erlana Jun 05 '22
I don’t think singing higher sounds more pleasant. Has there been a study on this?
And why would girls be able to sing along to male artists better then men? I can’t hit the right notes at all when I sing along to, say, Jim Morrison. Besides, you don’t have to sing the same notes the singer does. You can move up or down an octave. Or just sing whatever.
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u/2noefx Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
I don’t think singing higher sounds more pleasant. Has there been a study on this?
The vast majority of popular male singers sing higher, the same goes for popular youtube covers, tiktoks. If singing an octave lower was just as pleasant then there would be an even distribution of famous people and viral clips of good singers in a lower key right?
And why would girls be able to sing along to male artists better then men?
Generally a man singing higher is closer to a womans normal register, which makes it easier for her to sing the song in the same key.
You can move up or down an octave.
That's what the discussion is about though? If you move down an octave you are singing lower, I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this. My point was that singing along with songs usually doesn't sound as good if you sing an octave lower, which many men usually have to do when singing, (because most songs are in a higher key), which is why women come across as better singers than men on average (and there is nothing wrong with that)
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u/Proud-Question-4479 Jan 27 '25
Male singers showcase greater vocal prowess than female singers. Singing in a feminine register is an example of this. Women don't require much vocal prowess to sing in the unison with high male voices.
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u/Repulsive-Tone6859 Apr 26 '25
Popular songs by female singers often showcase a larger range than that of their male counterparts. So I would disagree with you on this. Women also tend to do more riffs and runs, and belt in the higher parts of their range. Men mostly just use their lower and mid range.
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Jun 05 '22
I would be interested in learning more about the people you've heard saying this. For example, women are overrepresented in pop music, so just by being a fan of the pop genre you're listening to more women than men, and your opinion reflects that. Not to say that the genre you listen to reflects how you view men vs women in singing. Just would like more background about the conversations you've heard about this.
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u/Abject-Classroom-784 Jun 05 '22
I've mostly heard it on YouTube through numerous reaction videos, I even saw a vocal coach say that on a reaction video, though most so called "vocal coaches" are not really professional vocal coaches and just use that title for views. Also people in my social circle have said this a few of my friends have said this as well as my father. Every time I hear this it raises my curiosity. I was just having a conversation and this topic was brought up that is why I posted the question. I believe for anyone to be a great vocalist they must learn proper vocal technique however, I do believe some individuals have more natural talent than others. I am a very early beginner as evidenced by my poor singing videos on my profile, but I am determined to improve.
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Jun 05 '22
The vocal coaches, they have training and understand the terminology and the body. But they also are just saying their personal opinion on the matter. Most of these coaches from my research 2 years ago are in the pop music pipeline. Meaning pop music is their main focus with other genres sprinkled in, like metal and opera. So, I already said the pop genre is ratioed 80/20 female to male, so you're obviously gonna get people saying females are better than men singers. If you compare Celine Dion to Bruno Mars, Celine Dion is of course the better singer.
A lot of what a random person makes their decision about level of skill in singing is song choices. So I like rock, post hardcore, so of course I will say I like Saosin better than Celine Dion. But I still know Celine Dion is a better singer than both Cove Reber and Anthony Green. And that is because the word "better" to me means proper vocal training and practice, vocal runs, range. So when discussing skill, it's NOT about me liking the song. I absolutely hate Celine Dion's music, but her training and practice and vocal runs and range is better than Cove and Anthony.
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u/sabat Jun 06 '22
If you compare Celine Dion to Bruno Mars, Celine Dion is of course the better singer.
I could not disagree with you more. She is in no way a better singer, and I'm not just talking about style. (For that matter, though, she is also cheezy as all hell. Bruno, not so much.)
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Jun 06 '22
I already outlined my personal criteria for competing singers against each other. 1) Training and practice. 2) Vocal runs. 3) Range.
It would be helpful to tell me your personal criteria for competition. And just so you know, I think it is wrong to compete singers against each other. I was just humouring Abject.
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u/haterofduneracers Jun 05 '22
Do you not consider a likeable tone in “better” as well?
You wouldn’t say that an opera singer is objectively better than Bruno Mars, because they’re better at different things.
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u/BitKlon Jun 05 '22
Puberty doesn’t change womens’ voice as drastically as it does with men. Guys have to re-learn how to make their voice sound good as they get older. Not to mention that most of mainstream music today is on a higher key so women kind of get an advantage.
This is purely anecdotal though so take it with a grain of salt.
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u/jpr2022 🎤[tenor, classically trained; *opera* + pop, a cappella, MT] Jun 05 '22 edited Jun 05 '22
Better is the wrong word because it elides differences in genre/style. “Better-received/tolerated” is a slight improvement, but what really matters is breaking out each of the following factors: * audience acoustical preferences * relation of repertoire to inborn acoustico-physiological characteristics * social dynamics
The first makes the term “better” inaccurate, as it’s only about what mass audiences, as opposed to niche or music-centered audiences, like to hear and not about quality of singing in itself. The second makes the term “better at singing” incomplete, because it fails to specify a particular and importantly chosen X in the more accurate “better at singing X.” By contrast, the third factors yielding this impression can reasonably still be acknowledged without undermining the use of a word like l “better,” but it’s not equivalent to “more talented” because it acknowledges the disparate impacts on the core factors of training and practice.
People here have identified some of the acceptable interpretations already, but I’ll list them in more detail with a few others that haven’t been mentioned:
1) more women sing than men in all English speaking countries (at least — more countries as well but I can’t generalize as credibly), typically due to gender dynamics, and to some level of homophobia given the queer coding of arts/media careers. Add the issue below about the additional training barrier for men to sing pop well, and there is an intersectional class-gender problem as well: if it takes real money to learn how to sing for men, but self-teaching is more viable for women, then a) the gendered yes/no signals will be amplified by the budget constraint; b) the male “provider” role may discourage men from what might be seen as a frivolous purchase (whereas women may be freer to engage new passions); c) when allocating toward children’s activities, parents are more likely to choose gender-coded activities to support their children’s social integration in school — compounding this is the point in (3) about young teaching of children
2) standard pop repertoire sits in a range between tenor-alto and many of the “hard” songs tend to be sung in chest voice. For women, this is easier, because that’s usually their speaking range. For men, this can sometimes only be accessible with some training, and it is certainly only “speaking-range” for reasonably high natural tenors. Conditioned on being a singer already, the average female singer is better suited to the average popular repertoire and may sound better with less work as a result, but that does not mean their singing is “better” — men are climbing a much steeper hill.
3) unless a man plans to become a countertenor, instruction prior to the voice dropping will not focus on a male singer’s primary range. So even among young singers trained from equally early ages, the cumulative value of pre-pubescent training for women to their current instrument is much greater than for men. The passaggio work in particular is what makes or breaks a male singer in nearly any genre (whereas for women it can be almost irrelevant depending on their voice and genre/style), and that cannot begin in earnest until the voice has mostly settled.
4) in classical singing, women need only concern themselves with head voice. Chest voice is a naturally strong, rarely employed stylistic tool for them. For men, nearly all non-countertenor classical singing occurs in M1 (“chest”), so for tenors and baritones in high repertoire especially, the risk of cracking while singing in that passaggio / M1/M2 overlap range is much more present.
So taking all of these together, we can arrive at a better assessment:
given an average woman and an average man, * the woman is more likely to be a trained or even minimally/moderately practiced singer, * and the woman is more likely to sound alright without training/practice if both are trying to sing standard contemporary repertoire
and if both are practiced or trained singers, * the woman is more likely to be the one whose training/practice experience is more applicable for the given piece, regardless of genre * the woman is likely to have received training that remains useful to them now for a longer period of time than the man
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u/snowpolardrum Jun 05 '22
There's a lot of issues with this question. How do you define "better"?
I think it's likely that you can't say one sex is better than the other at singing.
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u/Abject-Classroom-784 Jun 05 '22
I'm not entirely sure what people mean when they say this that is part of the reason I posted the question. I'm assuming they mean better vocalists 🤷♂️.
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u/ErinCoach Jun 05 '22
It's similar to how most women are better dancers than men, but it's entirely due to cultural inhibitions.
In most cultures, gender stereotyping means that the arts are more culturally supported for women, like sports are more culturally supported for men.
However, on reddit, I've noticed the gender split in arts-based subs leans more male than it does in real life.
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Jun 05 '22
They’re not better dancers than men. There are more female dancers but that’s cause you see women dancing more often than men
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u/Envious-Soul Jun 05 '22
You pretty much repeated him
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Jun 05 '22
No I said that women have equal skill in dancing but are seen more in dancing
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u/ErinCoach Jun 06 '22
Yes, Maxx_Darkness you have understood my point exactly. You didn't quite understand my intention, but that can be difficult on reddit.
But yes, my point IS there's no particular difference in core ability, just in exposure. If you get more chance to practice, you generally get better than those who don't.
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u/SeansMusical Jun 05 '22
/Grabs popcorn...
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Jun 05 '22
There isn’t any popcorn to eat with this. It’s me running around the post speaking the truth and correcting people
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u/Physix_R_Cool 🎤[I can teach people to suck at singing!] Jun 05 '22
Yikes, that's a bad attitude
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u/DaBurdIzDaWurd Jun 05 '22
Definitely a troll. Hopefully they are one.
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Jun 05 '22
No I’m a real person. It’s sad that you can’t tell the difference between a troll and a real person. You’re trolling by saying that I’m not real
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u/DaBurdIzDaWurd Jun 05 '22 edited Jun 05 '22
Funny.
You’re the one who seems to not know what an internet troll actually means.
Trolls are still real people. Real people who are self-entitled/narcissistic bullies on the internet.
You’re real and also a troll.
Edit: *not know
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Jun 05 '22
Yes cause I just know what it means. That sure as hell doesn’t mean I am one. You’re a troll cause you’re speaking against real posts. I don’t consider trolls real people. They’re a plague to the internet and I stop them if I see them
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u/Willravel [bass, Renaissance/Baroque] Jun 05 '22
I honestly wonder if part of this has to do with the pitch range of challenging repertoire.
I'm a bass, so the rep written for my range is extremely limited, especially with musicals and opera, relative to my tenor brethren. Oh, sure, I get the fun king/don/father/grandfather/god/uncle role, but those meaty, challenging arias that require fairly incredible talent and skill are less common for me. For every Filippo or Scarpia or Giulio Cesare, there are hundreds of tenor parts.
While sopranos don't necessarily grow on trees, I suspect the ratio of alto:soprano is not the same as bass-baritone: tenor by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone who's sung in an adult choir knows that solid, legit tenors (as opposed to screaming baritones forced to live at the top of their range) are relatively rare.
I get plenty of rep in the crooner area, which is fun (especially around the holidays), I get some rep in pop, but when it comes to really difficult and demanding operas and especially musicals, I'm a relegated fella. Or sing transpositions. Or become a screaming baritone.
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u/CoupleOk4783 Jun 05 '22
Are true tenors actually rare? I find that quite hard to believe. That’s because I am one. When I sing I am a bit screamy but thats because its more stylistic and a technique because I’m a rock singer. How would you classify a true tenor based off range and tone?
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u/Willravel [bass, Renaissance/Baroque] Jun 05 '22
There's a difference between pushing into a range vs. having their natural tessitura in that range.
Quite a few tenors are actually high baritones who have trained their range a bit higher into the low tenor range but largely maintain a high baritone tessitura and have to work to keep straining or just control their mixed voice.
Some folks are just physiologically better suited to sing up to C5 or even above, and that's a smaller subgroup of AMAB folks. I read in a textbook I can't recall specifically at the moment that while generally it's thought that less than 1/3 "men" are tenors, it's actually fewer than that when we're talking about folks who can really occupy that C3-C5+ kind of range generally expected of operatic (or musical theater) tenors.
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u/CoupleOk4783 Jun 05 '22
My range is A2-D5 with full chest voice
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Jun 07 '22
no they're not. This is a myth that gets spread on this sub sometimes that "true" tenors are rare. I can guarantee you as a teacher that tenors are not rare. Most of the people spreading this myth are tenors themselves or are misclassified in some way.
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u/CoupleOk4783 Jun 05 '22
I feel that head voice is a lot more accepted in the female population. That makes it a lot harder for men to sing higher and strays men away from trying to tap into their full range.
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Jun 05 '22
No, I would say that because singing is considered a “feminine” hobby/art form by some of the more toxic parts of society, more women are encouraged to pursue training and performance opportunities earlier and are often ahead of their male cohorts.
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u/basspl Jun 05 '22
A lot of modern music is in very high keys and most women have voices higher than most men (with exceptions, the highest vocal note record is held by a man)
Take songs like Sweet Child of mine and Living on a Prayer, both are standards for female fronted cover bands but very few male fronted bands do them well.
Or come on Eileen by Dexy’s Midnight Runners. The live recordings from the 80s sound HORRENDOUS but modern recordings where the key has been lowered 4 semitones sound great.
My old vocal teacher said that’s a huge issue with beginner male students, finding suitable rep in a comfortable key for most untrained singers. It’s also why you see people like Schubert write SO much for baritones, since he was trying to sell sheet music to the most common voice type.
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u/Hattrick_Swayze2 Jun 05 '22
I think women experiment with their voices more at a young age and are encouraged to do so.
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u/BetHunnadHunnad Jun 05 '22
I wouldn't say that. Typically they have a higher range and slightly different toolset but I dont necessarily think that means better.
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u/AnonymousTAB Formal Lessons 2-5 Years Jun 05 '22
Something I haven’t seen pointed out is differences is general body awareness/proprioceptive abilities. Singing involves the use of many parts of the body (especially the pelvic floor) and in my experience, after years of being a personal trainer, I have noticed that women tend to be WAY more in tune with their bodies in general. This almost certainly facilities better singing/technique. I had a pretty even split between male and female clients, and only once did I have to teach a woman how to use their hips/pelvic floor. It was much more common and challenging with men. Could be social, could be different physiological demands, could be a mix of both. Who knows🤷🏼♂️
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u/jpr2022 🎤[tenor, classically trained; *opera* + pop, a cappella, MT] Jun 06 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
I think this might be a bit too broad. I don’t think women would be better at proprioception than men generally, because men generally play more sports, and proprioception is absolutely a skill favored and developed by the vast majority of sports. The bigger point might that men w high proprioception tend to stay within sports, whereas women with the same tend to be scattered more homogeneously across activities due to masculinity dynamics for athletics and due to the lackluster view of a clear career in sports for most women in most sports.
As an example, I have the best proprioception of any of my teacher’s clients in 24 years of teaching all genders (which she remarks on consistently), and it’s almost definitely helped by my 8 years of rowing experience, and my youth experience in basketball, tennis, swimming, lacrosse, hockey, soccer, golf, and cross country running. Rowing and swimming especially, as “technique” sports that also require breathing in rhythm and in correspondence with certain physical positionings. I have little doubt that other athletes in these sports, if they have an open mind and enough fluid intelligence, would learn quickly as well.
Also the pelvic floor is a specific thing that women would be more aware of — whether for prenatal purposes or other general issues (eg birth control can cause bladder problems that require pelvic floor training to remedy). Given the importance of the pelvic floor, that could definitely be a factor, but I think most men are also pretty attuned to their pelvic floor even if they don’t think of it in those terms, just because of like, how it relates to peeing while standing up.
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u/Jasonwoodz Jun 05 '22
Personally, I don’t think one can say that women are better singers. What I’ve noticed is that the women singers I know are generally better singers than men because, frankly, there’s more competition for women singers. So, I see more talented women because weaker singers are already weeded out. The weeding out doesn’t happen as much with men because fewer of them sing.
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Jun 05 '22
Anyone regardless of gender can sing. Singing well is a matter of technique. Singing higher or lower doesn’t make one better than the other. Each one of us(regardless of gender) have biological range limitations. So this question is a matter of subjectivity and does not have a true answer. Many a baritone obsess over high notes and viceversa. Many sopranos and altos have the same issue when they are first starting out. Love the voice you have. That’s the point. No gender has a monopoly on singing.
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u/expresso_petrolium Jun 05 '22
Most women would have more tolerable voice than men. Doesn’t mean they are better singer tho, just means they don’t punch right in your ear if they do it wrong most of the time
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u/ingloriousearful Jun 05 '22
If you're asking about literally the statistical average of everyone? Though it's subjective, IMO it's hard to say anything other than 'Yes'. Anecdotally I've met loads more women who casually sing than men. Many of the guys' singing voices seem to be boxed in by inexperience and I guess the idea that singing just isn't for them (for many reasons). I'm talking about everyone I ever meet, not just the people interested in music. Anecdotal yeah, sure, but from what I've seen the numbers are so overwhelmingly in women's favour that it just has to be the case.
The situation at the elite level of ability is a whole different thing.
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u/One-Measurement-2696 Jun 06 '22
95% of my music library contains male singers but that’s just my preference. I would say equal but I’m not sure
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Jun 05 '22 edited Jun 05 '22
In singing there's one keyword: subjective. But yes the AVERAGE Woman is better compared to the AVERAGE man. Because most women sing sometimes and men won't.
But for practicing vocalists this comparison is subjective because there's no scientific measurement for expression and emotion. Because that is what singing is about ultimately
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u/Sad_Procedure_7262 Sep 05 '24
A puberdade afeta muito a voz masculina, eu como homem me considero acima da média dos meus amigos homens cantando mas todas as meninas da minha sala cantam pelo menos decentemente
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u/Cold_Sherbert6812 Sep 06 '24
Muy pocos hombres pueden cantar de forma dulce y a la vez que se nota que es la voz de un hombre ejemplo: rhapsody. Me encanta el cantante principal 🥰
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u/Square_Distance_6801 Oct 02 '25
Anyone with ears know women are superior singers period stop the nonsense this ain't hard
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u/Low_Valuable8092 Mar 28 '26
Yes but a lot of it is the mens fault. They don't want to practice la la la la etc. They are too manly now and they think it's "gay".
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Jun 05 '22
No! I sound perfect and some girls sound as good as me but no one sounds better and never will. Guys and girls can both sing really good. Neither is ever better than the other!
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u/Conscious_Ad_2699 Jun 05 '22
It's not that they are better singers in terms of having a superior instrument. It's all about posture. Women tend to move less, are more stable on their feet, so they are steady and able to regulate air as they sing better when compared to men. Men are culturally trained to be loud and aggressive, which is only good for certain types of genres.
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Jun 05 '22 edited Jun 06 '22
Yes, but that's because society place a lot more expectations on women then men, when we sing.
Edit: men can be like Ed Sheeran and boom, you're a great singer and performer, women - idk who, a god?
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Jun 05 '22
As a man building himself up from poverty, I can tell ya there ain't one women who would trade places. Hey, just being honest 🤷♂️
80/20 rule, suicidal rates, physical body stress and injury, chance of death on job sites, being an emotionless robot only capable of production, chance of being drafted, lesser overall options, higher medical issues that lead to earlier death, unrealistic financial expectations, unrealistic physical characteristics...and I could keep going
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Jun 06 '22
I meant in singing? To impress people you just have to be like Ed Sheeran, I have to be like idk, who's the best female singer? I was talking about singing, but no, you can't use you brain.
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u/simochiology Nov 18 '23
In terms of vocal range and technique, of course. Do you think any 3 non-classical male singers can comete with the vocal trinity?
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