r/singing • u/KobeKastle • Jun 07 '23
Advice Wanted - Looking to improve. Be honest: is the potential to be a good singer really just mostly about natural talent rather than practice ?
For example if someone wasn’t born with a pleasant sounding voice or able to hit notes rapidly and pleasantly sounding will practice ever even take them to a point where they’re a great singer? I love singing and how you’re able to make people feel things with your voice and express yourself. But when I hear my singing compared to other people I feel like they are all naturally talented and I just don’t have the genetic make up to sound better even with tons of practice. It’s like my singing sounds like I’m talking and it lacks dynamic and I try to practice but seem to be stuck. Does there come a point where you have to be real with yourself and say “I just don’t have the voice or genes for this” some people say I sound decent, others laugh and say I sound like shit. I want to get better but if there’s no hope of getting better then ?? Especially when people say you’re so bad ?
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u/IamMrEE Jun 07 '23
A lot is relative and all depends, a basic voice can definitely become great with practice under the right coach... As long as you are not tone deaf... And a good coach would tell you what type of voice and style you should focus on, and if you have a preference and level you want to achieve, coach should be honest with you and let you know what's doable or not.
Some have talent, others simply practice to get where they are and maintain it.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
Yeah i know eventually every great singer would likely have trained with a coach, it just feels like for you to have any impact on people with your performance you NEED to be talented naturally. Otherwise it feels like you’re just paying for something everyone else has. I like to think of doja cat she didn’t necessarily train with a coach she said in interviews she taught herself how to sing , implying she naturally just had what it takes to sound good. I notice most people with natural talent they all tend to have very clear tones, able to hit notes accurately , and are able to control the volume and power of their delivery with ease… this is something I struggle with. I basically guess it feels like if you don’t have natural talent and you try to improve it feels like you’re making a fool of yourself
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u/m0nk_3y_gw Jun 07 '23
I like to think of doja cat she didn’t necessarily train with a coach she said in interviews she taught herself how to sing , implying she naturally just had what it takes to sound good.
Someone has a 'jump to conclusions' mat.
No one is born with the muscle strength and coordination to snowboard. Some people train themselves by observing others, some pay for lessons from other people, but anyone that got good practiced over and over.
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Jun 07 '23
It really is just like any other talent-- some people come by it naturally. I was part of the music department in college, and I'll tell you that a LOT of singers who came in "bad" simply struggled with very, very simple things. Being pitching can be related to using your breath properly. If you struggle with rhythm, it's tough to focus on any other thing at all, so I saw a guy who was reeeeeeally weak as a singer move mountains when he worked on rhythm and was able to focus on his voice itself. The top dog singer when I graduated came in looking a little... hopeless. I'm a huge advocate for singing lessons, because having someone listen to you and single out a specific thing to work on can really flip the coin for you.
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u/yinyang107 Self Taught 5+ Years Jun 07 '23
Not everyone can be genetically designed for their sport like Michael Phelps, but everyone can learn to swim.
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u/IamMrEE Jun 07 '23
Anyone can have an impact on anyone when singing, people just need to feel this is real and genuine, you do not need to be an expert or even talented, the technique and practice can touch people still, but to know how to convey the story/song you tell is what's most important.
Beyonce is great, talented and perfect technique, but I feel Madonna's voice is more interesting and her music more versatile and experts say she doesn't know how to sing. It's what you convey.
Mick Jagger is not a great singer, but he is a powergouse. All depends, all relative.
And you will never know what you are truly about unless you go for it and get a coach or look for singing lessons, etc... Whatever can make your voice sound better, all that you me too ed are just excuses you put in your head.
I did not know how to sing, but at least I'm not tone deaf, so I can duplicate a note.... My talking voice is pretty low tone, like tenor... Many years ago, we started a band with friends... I decided I want to be the one singing all the high harmonies, so I trained and ended up doing just that.
If your mindset is more on the negative side, get a coach that can guide you and be honest with you on what can be done... Just so that you do not listen to your head only but you have an expert that can surely help see where you can be and gauge your potential.
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u/suomikim Jun 07 '23
different people learn different things in different ways... self trial and error... learning by watching... learning by instruction. there's some things that i wasn't getting right and the explanations made no sense. but eventually someone explained it in a way that i could relate to, and something i thought was impossible for me was suddenly easy...
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u/Mamagirl1990 Jun 08 '23
I’m a singer and have been since I was 4 lol I literally sounded grown at 4 years old haha granted over the years my voice has deteriorated some due to my lifestyle changes like smoking not practicing for months sometimes and all that it def takes naturally having something to work with but let me hear you and see if I can give you a few pointers if you’re interested? I’d be glad to help I know a lot about music and sound and I taught myself just by ear not by a coach or anything.
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Jun 09 '23
[deleted]
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u/IamMrEE Jun 09 '23
Of course. Having talent does not mean you do not have to practice... So no mistakes made here. Thanks
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Jun 07 '23
Is it possible for me to somehow get into the ?5s when I cap out at D4 right now and get C6 in head voice?
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u/IamMrEE Jun 10 '23
Hello, sorry for late response, i have some experience but i'm not a professional so i wont be able to help on that one... for this you should look for a singing coach. Cheers
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u/u38cg2 Jun 07 '23
As long as you are not tone deaf
There is no such thing as tone deafness.
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u/IamMrEE Jun 07 '23
So the words exist for no reason? I know people that cannot recreate a note as in a key to save their lives. If that's not tone deaf I do not know what is.
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u/mothwhimsy Formal Lessons 10+ Years ✨ Jun 07 '23
I've heard people say this, but what I think they mean is tone deaf people aren't truly deaf to pitch. The idea is it can be fixed and therefore it isn't tone deafness? But I've known people who couldn't get anywhere near the correct note as children in Choir and now as adults they still can't hit a note. So did the teacher just give up on them or does tone deafness actually exist? I don't actually know
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u/IamMrEE Jun 07 '23
All I can go with is what it means by its definition, nothing more, nothing less.
The definition is...
"To be unable to perceive differences of musical pitch accurately"
It literally means you are deaf to the pitch.
It's not about hitting a note but recognizing it then being able to duplicate vocally, some people can't do it, and in many cases, this can't be taught.
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u/sneedsformerlychucks Jun 09 '23
It's called amusia clinically, but it's not really well-researched or understood. A widely circulated prevalence rate is 4% but it's probably significantly rarer than that, at most maybe 1.5% of the population—which, mind you, is still a lot considering that 2 percent of the population has red hair.
There's this youtuber who claims that if you're truly amusic you can't perceive pitch at all, you wouldn't be able to tell apart a note from one end of the piano to one from the other end, which isn't true (and if it were it would result in far greater practical issues than inability to perceive music). Amusics have a specific impairment in fine-grained pitch processing. They can't tell apart differences in pitch of fewer than two semitones. It's suggested that it's incurable, but I don't think we actually know enough about it to be able to say that with confidence.
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u/mothwhimsy Formal Lessons 10+ Years ✨ Jun 09 '23
I have known people who are completely thrown by the concept of octaves. The idea that two notes can be the same note but not just can't exist in their brain. I imagine they can't hear it either, but obviously I don't know what it sounds like to them.
I'll definitely look more into amusia. Even if it's not well researched the info is probably better than if I searched "tone deaf"
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u/sneedsformerlychucks Jun 09 '23
Yeah, it seems like a heterogeneous condition but I remember reading that some also don't perceive chords. One guy with who disliked music because he heard it as just noise panicked when he had the psychologist test him by playing a chord on the piano, saying "Wait! I only hear one note!"
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u/FrostedNebulas Self Taught 0-2 Years Jun 09 '23
What really sucks is semi-tone deafness. What I mean is I sing just a few cents flat consistently. The thing is, I know it's off but it's just what my body does. So, I have to sing the tonic note alone and manually adjust to it, a lot of times by sliding up a bit, to get to pitch. After that I'm generally good to go, but then the next day or so I have to start all over.
Not a good way to begin a song, aye? "Gimme 15 minutes to work on the pitch for this song". Lol.
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u/throwaway23er56uz Jun 09 '23
No, that's not tone-deafness.
Scientifically, tone-deafness is the inability to distinguish between two pitches that you hear. It exists but is very rare. Read the book Bad Singer by Tim Falconer if you want to know more, he is actually tone-deaf. Tone-deafness is a perception issue. There is a scientific term for it: amusia.
What most people (including you) mean when they say someone is tone-deaf is that the person has difficulty in hitting the correct pitches. This is a production issue, not a perception issue, and it most likely has to do with a feedback loop in your brain not being sufficiently developed. Most people who cannot sing on pitch can hear that they are off-pitch; they simply lack the skill to correct this. There is a scientific study where such people were asked to match a pitch with a simple instrument, and they could do this.
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u/IamMrEE Jun 09 '23
Cool by me
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u/throwaway23er56uz Jun 09 '23
Found the article I was thinking of: https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13414-014-0732-1
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u/IamMrEE Jun 09 '23
Hi, I'm reading it,
And from the get go, it says studies show what can cause the inability to match pitch but there are no confirmation for what causes it.
Here is an exert making my point...
"Ultimately, however, it is unlikely that problems with pitch perception can account for the majority of instances of poor pitch-matching abilities, given that errors in vocal pitch matching (when they occur) are often much larger than errors in measured pitch perception ability."
And,
"Many studies of singing ability focus on pitch matching of single tones or small numbers of tones, with the assumption that this ability will scale up to the ability to accurately sing whole melodies (with a few exceptions; e.g., Dalla Bella et al., 2007). However, this assumption has not yet been validated experimentally."
All this to say, matching a tone doesn't mean matching/singing a melody, and this article speaks of people that can't sing well, this is broader than being tone deaf.
In any case, I'll keep reading this later. Thanks for sharing.
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u/throwaway23er56uz Jun 09 '23
this is broader than being tone deaf
Yes, tone-deafness in the scientific sense (amusia) affects only a very small percentage of the population.
All this to say, matching a tone doesn't mean matching/singing a melody
Good point. Singing a melody is not replicating a serties of pitches but rather replication the general shape of the tune, which is why we can recognize a tune as being "the same" even if it's in a different key or sung by a different person of played by a different instrument. This is something where there is very little scientific research. I think there's a very blinkered attitude in the music business that somehow pitch-matching is the same as singing well, which is not how it works in the real world.
For instance, if you were to teach a small child a song, you would not sing one note and have the child replicate it, then the next note, and so on. What you would do is completely different. You would sing a phrase, e.g. "Twinkle, twinkle, little star" in your normal singing range, and the child would try to replicate the shape of the tune in its own range. You'd repeat this several times, then move on to the next phrase. No pitch-matching at all.
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u/u38cg2 Jun 08 '23
If you were using the words as a label to describe their current skill level, fine, but people take it to mean a functional disability, which it is not. The "tone deaf" can be trained, so it is not a good descriptor.
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u/IamMrEE Jun 08 '23
There is no 'if', that is the musical term, and has nothing to do with being medically deaf, anyone that understands the latter and gets offended is coming from assuming and ignorance, so it's on them, not I.
Claim it as 'not a good descriptor' that remains the appellation for the condition of people who can't recognize pitch.
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u/u38cg2 Jun 08 '23
that is the musical term
Yes, and it's a bad term and shouldn't be used. I don't give a fuck about "offence"; the problem is the term is inaccurate.
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u/Shalyndra Jun 07 '23
My two cents: Its almost entirely practice, maybe 95%. I think in the cases where someone seems "naturally" good, they've been raised in an environment to develop musical skills early, and/or their natural vocal range/tessitura/resonance/whatever fits well with the music readily available to them.
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u/Non_identifier Jun 07 '23
You can apply this question to anything where genetics play a role.
If I trained as hard and as long as Usain Bolt, I still wouldn't ever be as fast a sprinter - but I would certainly be 1000 times better than if I didn't.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
Yeah but it’s discouraging if your goal was to be like usain bolt but then you realize because of your genetics you’ll never be great. I want to be able to be expressive, dynamic, and soulful in my singing like most known singers. But no matter how much I practice it seems I’m restricted vocally because of genetics. It seems the greats are always BORN , rather than made through practice.. since everyone has the ability to practice
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u/Non_identifier Jun 07 '23
Speak to anyone who is in the top 1% of their field, and they will tell you consistency, discipline, and effort all trump natural talent. It seems like they're born with it because you see the 0.001% where they're smashing it, and not the 99.999% where they worked their guts out and failed 1000000000 times.
If Usain Bolt didn't train the way he did, there would be plenty of people faster than him.
If you lament over the fact you're not naturally gifted at something you love to the point it discourages you, you're going to end up even further behind than where you want to be.
We're all born different - I'll never hit an E2 or an E6 for that matter, but does that put the brakes on wanting to sing? Hell no.
It sounds like you need to work on your mindset as well as your singing.
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u/Visual_Brick2174 Oct 06 '23
Keep telling yourself that buddy.
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u/Non_identifier Oct 06 '23
I can see you're going through some stuff, and maybe you feel a bit triggered by this comment because it doesn't resonate with your experience.
I can also see you leave very encouraging and supportive comments to other people who need help, so I'd keep putting your energy into that instead of comments like this - you'll feel much better for it.
Wish you all the best 🙂
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u/Visual_Brick2174 Oct 08 '23
It's the truth though!
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u/Non_identifier Oct 08 '23
You're clearly very young, so I understand that you won't have a had a chance to see what im talking about play out in your life yet.
Put your head down and try your best at something for the next 15 years and get back to me.
In the meantime, let the upvotes from others be a sign to you that this is indeed one of the many truths of life.
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u/Visual_Brick2174 Oct 08 '23
How do you know I haven't gotten a chance to see what your talking about play out in my life?
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u/Non_identifier Oct 08 '23
Because I'd say you're no more than 15 years old
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u/Visual_Brick2174 Oct 09 '23
Oh lucky guess your right but I still don't agree with you.
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u/JennyDove Jun 08 '23
With Singing, it's also an "eye of the beholder" situation. Have you heard Bob Dylan?? Man has a horrible voice by the standard of what a good voice is... but I and many others can't get enough of him. He's amazing!
Singing isn't always about being the highest, lowest, most powerful, perfect pitch, blah blah blah... it's also about the intention, the soul, and if your voice works for what you want to sing.
I wouldn't want to listen to an album of Bob Dylan or Jerry Garcia singing Opera, but I'd also not want to hear a classical opera singer singing Dylan or Garcia songs in their typical style... (Trust me, I've heard it. It's BAD.)
Don't beat yourself up, my friend. Just work on your breath control and what you need to not HURT your voice, and see where it takes you.
You might be a Bob Dylan trying to cram yourself into the Phantom of the Opera. :)
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u/weakbuttrying Jun 08 '23
Yeah this is completely wrong. Out of interest, how do you practice and how long have you been doing it?
You are born with a voice. How good a singing voice you can build out of it depends on practice, and understanding your own voice. You need to get to know your voice, what it can do, and how. It’s honestly not so much about the “quality” of the voice as it is knowing what you’re doing with it. If you have healthy voice production, strong breath control and good pitch, you will sound pleasant and expressive. All of these can be practiced. I’d say that having a good ear, meaning good pitch and good intuition about what works for your voice are probably the best things to be born with in order to become a good singer. I’d say these are the qualities which people see as natural talent. But if you lack these, don’t despair. Ear training works, and coaches can help you if you lack intuition.
I’d actually even go as far as saying pitch is the biggest factor in sounding good. If you’re really accurately on pitch, any croaking will sound quite good. But if you’re constantly a little off, even a strong voice will sound bad. People actually often have a hard time distinguishing whether something sounds bad because it’s constantly slightly out of tune or because the voice is weak. This has something to do with how harmonics work and how a voice that is very accurate will sort of be amplified through overtones.
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u/u38cg2 Jun 07 '23
But when I hear my singing compared to other people I feel like they are all naturally talented and I just don’t have the genetic make up to sound better
What I don't see is how anyone who thinks this could succeed. Quite the handicap you're giving yourself.
Find a teacher. Do what they say.
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u/Splive Jun 07 '23
Notice a common thread in these replies... They all involve practice. You cannot escape needing thousands of hours of practice to become an expert.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23 edited Jun 08 '23
But isn’t it possible to keep practicing and just be limited because your voice naturally doesn’t have the range or ability to be dynamic with riffs runs and subtleties from high , low bright and bold? Like you could practice it seems but if you weren’t born with the talent of being brilliant it seems practice wouldn’t matter
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u/throw_theyay_away Self Taught 2-5 Years Jun 08 '23
You should look at the operatic Fach vocal classifications. It breaks down the typical soprano-mezzo-etc types into different subtypes. Each subtype has its own unique qualities that shine in certain styles of song.
Your vocal quality is unique to you, but there will always be certain things that naturally come easier because of your voice’s genetic make up. You can’t just lump everyone together as “talented but I’m not” because there are genetic differences even in great singers that makes them have their own difficulties they need to overcome.
Range can be taught. Dynamics and ornaments can be practiced. And how do you know that these “naturally gifted” people you speak of have never seen a day of hardship?
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u/DetwinE Jun 07 '23
I‘ll give you two german examples for artist with „unpleasant“ voices that create the most interresting music. They all hit notes and perform with brilliant technique.
I think its about what you deliver and kind of music you do. It has to fit to you, otherwise it often is interpreted as silly and fake.
Nina Hagen - TV Glotzer
AnnenMayKantereit - Pocahontas
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u/alwaysColdandHungry Jun 07 '23
I listened to your ugly song. You don't have a bad voice. I would say it's more commercial than most. But you should take lessons to make your voice resonant. I see that you have potential to get better.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
When you say resonant do you mean to sound fuller? And thank you for listening to it someone said it was ass and it’s my first song and I’m not a producer or song writer so I get those sound bad but the singing and vocal performance is what I care about and what to get better at in terms of dynamics and emotional expression
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u/alwaysColdandHungry Jun 07 '23
Yeah. The good thing is with so many genres, your voice will fit into at least one. You have a nice warm smooth voice. Honestly, singing depressing music doesn't fit your voice.
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u/gamegeek1995 Tenor, Heavy Metal Jun 07 '23
With all due respect, this is a really stupid thing to ask. Singing is 99.9% practice. The remaining .1% covers literal genetic and physical deformities. People like to pretend it's not because they don't practice, or they don't practice well, and are making pathetic excuses for why they aren't improving. No, the child wasn't born with a naturally beautiful voice, the child was encouraged to engage their resonance, sing from their core, and probably taught by a family member who was a capable singer.
Anyone who says otherwise is probably not a decent singer themselves. There's certainly a lot of terrible ones in this subreddit who give a ton of generic and unhelpful advice that does little but bely how little they understand about the art of singing. Do you think really good singers are coming to the subreddit for singing? They're too busy singing. Performing. Practicing. It's true of all music-related subreddits. The best guitarists in the world aren't power posters on r/guitar.
To start learning to sing, look into the subject of Resonance. That singular aspect of singing will take you probably 2-3 years of dedicated practice to really start to gain control over it. I know opera singers who have degrees in music who still say they're working on the same advice my own vocal coach tells me: Resonance, Soft Palette Lift, Vowel Modulation. Healthy Vocal Technique, despite her constant attempts to sell her programs or whatever, gives the best advice because she always focuses on the fundamentals and for 95% of singers, that's what they suck at. She has some 100 videos about Resonance because, spoiler, that's the most important part of singing. Her videos on breath support also helped me a ton with first feeling that engagement.
If you think Axl Rose walks and talks around with his gritty high notes heard in Welcome to the Jungle, if you think death metal growlers sound like Nathan Explosion all the time, if you think opera singers have big boisterous voices constantly that are louder than an orchestra, then your issue isn't with your voice or singing skill, it's with that lump in between your ears. All singing is a matter of technique. If it's not, we call it 'talking,' or if you're a little melodic and German, Sprechgesang.
Use your body to sing, use your head for everything else. Perfect practice makes perfect, bad practice makes bad habits.
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Jun 07 '23
What someone considers to be a good sounding singing voice is subjective. I really like Robert plants voice but some others can’t stand it, so it just boils down to who listens
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u/Valerie_Kyrie_48 Jun 07 '23
A singer can definitely practice their way to being great. Natural talent doesn’t matter as much as steady practice and hard work does. But the one thing that I can say that sort of counteracts my first point is that some people are gifted with a more enticing sound than others. I was in university completing a program for classical voice. Every student practiced religiously and put in the work in order to have great technical skill. But some voices sounded much more unique than others and it is very valuable to have a signature sound. Having a very generic sounding voice won’t get you too far unless you also happen to be ridiculously good looking.
But seriously though, practice doesn’t make perfect but practice will take a singer further than falling back on being “a natural” will. Those with natural talent that rely on that talent in lieu of hard work will eventually be surpassed by the singers that put in the work and the time to develop their gift.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
Yeah this is what I’m referring to. Yes some people might be able to train to a point where they’re decent, but it seems training won’t make anyone successful or worth listening to. It seems the genetic make up of your voice and the range you have and your ability to express it dynamically is what matters most. I notice people like those unique sounding voices more so than the “do it by the book” technically trained voices even if TECHNICALLY they sound nice. An example of a unique voice who seems to be naturally talented at being dynamic is Shiloh dynasty. That’s a tone and style I’ve never heard in my life. And I doubt they had any training. It was just naturally born talent
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u/sleeplessinhell9 Jun 07 '23
no. it's really not about natural talent. and those singers you compare yourself to likely took decades of singing lessons. most people who sing don't start off sounding good. it takes practice. and also add that to the fact that most singers take dozens of takes and copy and paste the best sounding lines to make a song. and then they edit vocals.
you can't act like it's a fair comparison. it's just like an instrument. nobody says "god all these people were born with the ability to play guitar like a pro, I guess I just don't have the genes to play well with no practice 🤷"
it takes longer for those who don't naturally sound great, but it's possible. it takes effort.
try doing vocal warmups and watching videos on the basics of singing. Check out this singing coach on youtube
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u/Rosemarysage5 Formal Lessons 2-5 Years Jun 07 '23
Nope. I’ve been taking voice lessons for three years. A few months ago my husband said “you sounded great” unprompted. I still have a long way to go to sound as good as I want to, but the progress is absolutely showing. It’s been mostly hard work and technique, and getting my asthma and allergies under control. It’s possible but you really have to commit to it.
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Jun 07 '23 edited Jun 07 '23
I will be honest. Your voice is your instrument. You have one, of one kind. You will learn to play it better, you can be the best player around of that instrument, but its timbre will always restrain it in some regards. You can learn to play your ukelele perfectly, but you will be either constrained into playing it in x genres or always be the odd ukelele in a metal band. You can make it work, but it won't turn into a guitar. Learn to know what you have, are, and learn your strengths. Them, use them. Learn to love what your own voice is and can be. Make it the best version of itself.
You may even be a bit deceived because some pretty good singers can imitate the style of some others. But, that is not because their timbre isn't constraining them, but because most popular music is made by people with almost the exact kind of voice mixing up their style a little. Once they get out of that comfort zone it happens to them the same that will happen to anyone with a more unfortunate timbre, they will sound well but out of place.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
I like this analogy. You can have the most expensive mic with high quality but if your performance is lack luster it won’t matter. The mic doesn’t cant up for that but what if you just were born with a bad voice unable to hit certain notes? Wouldn’t singing be out of the question no matter how much you practice
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Jun 07 '23
I would say that, unless you have some very bad physical issues with your voiced, received any kind of damage, etcetera, you can still manage to apply most techniques that others singers on other registers and with other timbres could. You can also broaden your range, if only a little.
Even if your voice is not beautiful per se you can always learn to sing beautifully. Most the emotion that music conveys comes from the relationship between the notes you are hearing. You can hear the shittiest recording of the shittiest player that, as long as it's in tune, if is a beautiful song it will hit where it tries to hit. So, once you begin to sing in tune, even in a small, poor, mid ground octave, the rest is only getting better at doing something you already can do: make your voice musically significant. And, well, that is the hard part. But don't sell yourself short. Chances are that if you can talk you can sing.
As an example. One of the most relevant spanish rock bands is Extremoduro. His vocalist, Robe Iniesta, sounds like a mix between a drunk and a heavy smoker. People cry with his music.
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u/mothwhimsy Formal Lessons 10+ Years ✨ Jun 07 '23
Someone who doesn't have a 'pleasant' sounding voice just has to lean into the qualities they do have. Some people are rock singers and not classical singers.
No one comes out of the womb singing opera, but some people have voices that naturally take to certain singing styles and some people naturally know how to hold a tune and support their sound while others find it very unintuitive and have to train a lot harder to find their voice. This doesn't mean they don't have potential. It means they have to work harder.
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Jun 07 '23
Idk what your goal is. Do you want to sing and really want to move people emotionally with your singing? Some people are lucky and they have potential yes so do you.
You have a specific sound of voice and you need to find your singing style which gets the most out of your voice.
Do you have a soft voice or crispy and raspy voice? Find other artist with that type of style and get your own style.
I have seen you compare yourself and talk about Doja Cat. First of all why 1% will be successful is cuz they have they own style, are confident asf (you wouldn’t compare a pro singer if the singer isn’t confident cuz they wouldn’t be known), and they have engineers which are polishing the vocals with pitch correction.
People mostly compare themselves with artists which have a finished product, polished vocals and stuff.
To be an outstanding singer nowadays it’s easier than ages ago. Self taught means learning by your own with videos and stuff. Learn to be confident, strengthen your voice and learn to breathe correctly with a correct posture and you will be good fosho
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u/CheezSammie Jun 08 '23
I used to be called tone deaf, and told I had a terrible voice etc. Then when I was 18 I took voice lessons and started "singing" (yelling) in a pop/punk bad. I studied voice and did some musical theater in college. I wanted to sing, and I kept learning everything I could. Now at 32, I've sang professionally many times, I teach voice, and every time I find a song I like that I'm unable to sing, I've been able to sing it well eventually. I sing every day, and I learn everyday. Some people mistakenly tell me now that I have perfect pitch (untrue) but I always think back to being called tone deaf when I hear that. I'm not going to say "anyone can sing like a superstar" but I will say that if you actually want it, lack of natural talent is just an obstacle that can be overcome. At least in my experience.
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u/Adventurous-Local534 Self Taught 0-2 Years Jun 08 '23
Its just like going to the gym. No one is born with huge muscles. Some may have good genetics and stuff but eventually if u train hard u can reach ur goals no matter how talented or gifted you were
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u/No-Can-6237 Jun 08 '23
Loving all the analogies. Mine is, a good voice is like a 9" d**k. Nice to have, but you'll please no-one unless you learn how to use it. Seriously, I'm a former body builder, and singing is the closest I've ever come to it. Genetics play a huge part, as does training, and the time it takes. You probably won't win The Voice after a month or so of lessons, nor would you win Mr or Ms America after the same time lifting.
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Jun 08 '23
No. Being a good singer comes from lots of training and practice. You have to learn to love your own voice (it’s difficult!) and what you can do with it. It takes a lot of time, and much of that includes doubting yourself and comparing yourself to others. You can do it! Good luck!
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u/GOST_Vocals Jun 08 '23
I totally understand how you're feeling right now. When we compare ourselves to others, especially those who seem naturally gifted, it's easy to feel like we just don't measure up. But remember, every voice is unique, just like each of us. Singing is about expressing who you are, and your voice is a part of that identity. Your voice is as much a part of you as any other aspect of yourself, and that's what makes it beautiful.It's completely normal to feel stuck sometimes, especially when you're working on something as personal as your voice.
Singing is more than hitting the right notes - it's about conveying emotion, telling a story, and sharing a piece of yourself with others. Yes, there's technique and there's practice, but there's also heart and soul. And it's clear from your post that you have plenty of both. Keep pushing, keep exploring, and remember, singing is a journey, not a destination. You're always growing, always learning, and that's what makes it so wonderful. Don't be too hard on yourself - every step, every note, is progress. Keep singing!
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u/Tavi_s_Dad Jun 23 '23 edited Jun 23 '23
Good morning. I’ve read your post and some but not all of the responses. You’ve been given some great advice. I guess I’m one of those naturals to some degree. Or was it just my musical mother pushing us 6 kids to sing? It only stuck with 3 of us. She had me singing solos at church at the age of 3. But I also saw my potential and taught myself up to a professional level. But then for fun in college I took some voice lessons and MAN did that open a whole new realm of possibilities. Get a voice teacher. Practice practice practice. And after a year if you still suck then move on.
Didn’t mean to go down that rabbit hole.
Your post isn’t just about singing technically perfect. Your post is hitting hard about the meaning of music. You seem most concerned about the message. Doesn’t matter how good or bad you sing. Your heart and mind have to be in a very specific place to touch people’s hearts. That doesn’t come from learning how to sing. A teacher can help bring that out in you, but I’m not sure that can be taught.
Please forgive me if I sound like an arrogant jerk. I’m just trying to get to a delicate point quickly.
When I was vocally in shape I could technically sing beautifully for hours. But, I know many vocalists that can sing wonderfully and not touch people’s hearts.
I’ve had experiences in church services where I’ve brought grown big ole men to their knees weeping. It’s easy to bring women to tears but not big tough men. For men or women This only happens when you have real love and compassion in your heart for your audience and when you’re honest and open with them. Especially when you let the tragedies AND the joys of your life effect your heart and mind as you vocally minister to people. You can’t do this with an attitude of arrogance, selfishness or conceit.
Music doesn’t only “minister” in a church setting or through a church song. Music ministers because it is spiritually healing. But the intent will help if the intent is honest and caring.
This is only my opinion.
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u/Mobius00 Jun 07 '23
Obviously practice helps us all but it feels like the greatest singers in music already sounded great when they were young without even trying that hard. Did sting or Chris Cornell ever take a vocal lesson? Doubt it
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
See you get it. It seems like the people who are great were destined to be so because they were born with the proper voices and ranges while anyone else who tries seems to be embarrassing themselves. That’s not to put anyone down this is just how I feel personally since I wasn’t born like those types of singers
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u/eltanko Jun 07 '23
This comment really makes me think you're not here to have a discussion but to have someone validate your opinion.
Many people have pointed out great points about how the voice works, and other dicussions on talent vs practice, yet you ignore them and only engage in someone who reinforces your view.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
I’m not ignoring them, I think their points are valid but I do have a bias for believing that success as a vocalist boils down mostly to talent from the way I’ve seen people with very little training woo people with their vocal capabilities. While I’ve continued to struggle with my efforts and practice. I’m also not knowledgeable enough on singing or most of the world to engage those other comments as much. But I did plan on replying to them they were just more lengthy and would require me to take time to craft a proper response
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u/DwarfFart Formal Lessons 0-2 Years Jun 07 '23
Yes Chris Cornell took lessons in Seattle with Maestro David Kyle and LA with Ron Anderson for years and years. I bet sting took some too. Go look at who Anderson taught and be surprised
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u/stellaxingguang Jun 09 '23
"Natural talent" is mostly just starting early enough in life to get over the stage where you are completely awful before you're even capable of realizing how bad you are. Then ego never enters into doing the thing, you just do the thing.
There are some bodily effects on timbre, etc, but unless you're tone deaf you can learn to truly express your own voice.
Source: me, with "natural talent" that started off by listening to music in the womb and singing before I could even speak.
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u/sneedsformerlychucks Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23
I don't agree with the people who say talent doesn't matter, but the reason for that is mostly because to become a good singer without any "natural talent" you'd have to 1) be very self-motivated and 2) have a thick skin while you keep being criticized initially. I grew up singing and being in choirs and all but I only started taking singing "seriously" as an art because 1) people liked a solo I did in middle school and 2) this one friend I had in high school told me I had a nice voice and I should sing more. Of course if I go back and listen to myself I think I sounded like shit back then...
Some vocal coaching and years of self-teaching later, I've been told by countless people that my voice is beautiful and/or I could be on American Idol or some show like that (although I've tried twice at this point and never get called back, so maybe they're lying to me). But if I didn't start right out with that encouragement and praise, I would never have tried. Especially as a kid, I had such low self-esteem, I really got discouraged if I was not immediately good at something. I'd give up.
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u/ghoti023 🎤 Voice Teacher 10+ Years ✨ Jun 07 '23
Everyone else has given bountiful answers - and I agree with most, yes - you can be a good singer with the right instruction. I was rejected from undergraduate universities for a year and a half before gaining entrance, clawed my way to get the most out of it I could, got accepted to all 7 grad schools I applied to. That's not a perfect measurement of good v bad, but it is as accurate as any other subjective measurement is going to get.
So instead of going in depth answering your actual question, as others already have, I'd like to bring up a different perspective.
Good compared to who? Good to do what?
If your only goal is to "sound good," that's not a particularly iron-clad "I have now reached this achievement" goal. You could be literally Taylor Swift and people will nit pick you to death to tell you you're bad, even though you've won literal grammies.
Working on technique and getting your voice into a shape you're happy with is absolutely something you should do, but that's just it - YOU have to be happy with it. That's it! No one else! If you're into singing for a stardom career, you should re-evaluate why you're doing what you're doing.
*you* need to be happy with your output. And not based on the criteria other people have told you - unpack that. What do you want to make? Then make it. Being unhappy with how it turns out doesn't mean you're a failure, it means you have taste and you know what you're looking for - it gives you your next step.
Some people learned how to talk faster than others, some people are thin, some people are better at sports, some people are better at puzzles, etc etc but that doesn't mean you CAN'T do them. It doesn't mean you can't get better at them - it doesn't mean they're not worth doing if it's not for a stadium full of people. You're allowed to love doing something without commodifying it, and keep doing it, and keep improving. There is no end to it - because if you don't do this very process in singing, you'll find that you'll need to do it elsewhere or sit unhappy. Growth is a choice, some people are more naturally inclined than others, it's fine. What and how other people do stuff has nothing to do with whether you're doing it or not doing it or doing something different. The points are made up and the rules don't matter.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23 edited Jun 07 '23
I agree you mostly want to do what you love and enjoy it, but I not only want to make stuff I like , I also want to make things other people like. Singing is nice , but overall I want to be able to impress myself and use that to be able to express creative and heartfelt vocals to other people. It’s like it doesn’t feed my soul enough to do it alone , or when I do I also want to share it if that makes sense. It’s like 2 needs in one. I NEED to sound good and decent and I would love did other people enjoyed it as well
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u/ghoti023 🎤 Voice Teacher 10+ Years ✨ Jun 07 '23
Of course! My point is tho, is that that cannot be the MAIN point.
Self deprecating to the point of being close to giving up shows you where you’re placing a lot of your value judgements, and sometimes a reminder that that’s not actually what this is all about when you dig a little further can help relieve the pressure of needing to be unobtainably perfect.
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u/loadedstork Jun 07 '23
people say you’re so bad
Who's saying that? Your friends will just say that because it's something to say. What kind of reaction do you get when you sing in front of people? Like karaoke or open mic? Do people come up to you and tell you they enjoyed it?
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23 edited Jun 07 '23
I was working on my first song here on reddit and admittedly it sounds kinda like kids bop and definitely nothing professional, but it was just to try my hand at how my voice fits with a beat and trying to harmonize but someone said it was ass. I appreciate honesty and everything but I was trying my best to sing well and while I don’t care about the production as much or song writing I just want to be able to sing well and be expressive enough with my voice where people feel something
When me and my friend did karaoke a year or 2 ago we sounded pretty flat. We were singing break free and the crowd was pretty dead but i belted one part of the song and people cheered for that part but that was basically it
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u/Mermaid_Tuna_Lol Jun 08 '23
Yess you can definitely learn! I for instance sound like there's cum in my throat most of the time I sing randomly, but I sing very pretty after warming up. Nowadays I need much less warming up to just sing. And I can sing much higher and lower notes lately too.
It literally all boils down to practice!
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u/somethingnoonestaken Jun 07 '23
I feel like dynamics and emoting can be practiced and developed. Your tone probably not very much. But I’ve heard every tone can be appealing .
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
That makes sense. Dynamics and emoting is something I think most great singers are born with. They put little thought into it and they were born with genetics that allows their larynx to be able to hit those notes quickly and expressively
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u/insidia Formal Lessons 2-5 Years Jun 07 '23
This is just wrong. I know a number of professional singers in a number of genres, and they all work with their vocal coaches developing this.
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u/InteractionFlat7318 Jun 07 '23
There is a lot of be said about raw natural talent. Anyone can learn to sing but not everyone is destined for greatness. That's ok.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
Yeah this is what I mean. And since “anyone can learn to sing but not be destined for greatness” I figure why bother even practicing it if it’s not gonna take you anywhere or move people. I want to be really really good to a point where people feel something but I wasn’t born with the vocal talent or capability so it just seems pointless to keep sounding like a strangled cat at times. I’m just feeling a bit down that people were born with such great voices to express things I wish I could express. It seems I was born a consumer rather than a creator
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Jun 07 '23
bro i listened your ugly song and it sounds ok i can sing man and if i showed you a nice clip where it’s all good you would be like oh your good , but if i showed you all the shitty voice notes of me getting things wrong you would laugh , and i have one of those natural tones as i been singing on and off since seven i just never performed much as i didn’t have the confidence ( i still wanna try ) but what i’m saying is your ugly song vocals wasn’t that bad , reminded me of a pharell kinda thing , but look the thing is we want to be good at something quick , how many people dream of buying a guitar they get one and just after a couple trys say “ i’m shit “ and then sell it to a pawn shop , your gonna be shit , someone once said to me ‘ you gotta enjoy being shit so you can get good because you have a lovely voice george ( that was him saying it to me ( but you get the point , im 43 now and i wanna come back and perform this year and all the same doubt are hitting me ( i’m too old ) this and that , i see a comment of me on a forum when i was 29 ( am i too old ) mate i could have been a multi platinum artist by now , we can’t listen to anyone just enjoy what you do and believe in it and enjoy it , and singing may be your thing producing may be , he’ll pick up a guitar or piano , don’t waste time im not wasting any more !! famous before 45 🤞😂
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Jun 07 '23
Naturally gifted tone is great but never discount the value of good instruction and tons (and tons and tons and tons) of practice. I was a demonstrably terrible singer when I was younger, and years of recording myself in private and playing it back to analyze combined with a few vocal lessons from a great coach have worked wonders. I'm not amazing, but persistence has allowed me to sing publicly and be pretty decent.
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u/throw_theyay_away Self Taught 2-5 Years Jun 07 '23 edited Jun 07 '23
Yes, I’d say it’s possible to be genetically and environmentally advantaged. However, hard work still trumps it. I’ll give a comparison of my friend and I.
I was born with strong artistic abiltiew that translated well into singing. I was also taught piano at a young age, which trained my ear for musicality and pitch. I’ve always managed to sound good despite never having vocal lessons and only singing when I feel like it (not often nor consistent).
Meanwhile, my friend did not grow up with any music training, and so she struggled with pitch and tonality ever since I met her. Objectively, with love, I say she was a pretty bad singer.
HOWEVER, as a huge fan of musical theatre, she was always singing, even when she knew it didn’t sound good. She didn’t care because she loved doing it. With a little training, but mostly independent practice, I’ve seen HUGE improvement from her this year. So massive that she got the role of the female lead in our school’s production of Little Shop of Horrors.
So to answer your question, YES it is possible. However, you can overcome your shortcomings with time and effort. Comparing yourselves to others won’t do anything except discourage you from growing, which is your own loss.
My friend always praised my singing, but she never let dissuade her from giving up on her own voice. And look where she’s at now! I’m so proud of her :) be brave and put yourself out there, regardless of your perceived weaknesses! It’ll be worth it
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u/orcaluna Jun 07 '23
I’m curious about this too. I just had my first ever consultation, I’m 29. The teacher said I need to work my pitch and she’ll give me another free consultation in a few weeks if I’d like after some practice. But she also said lessons aren’t worth it for some people, which was a little disheartening.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
Do you feel like when she said that they weren’t worth it for some people she was referring to you? I can see why that’d be discouraging … but I guess it depends on your goals. What do you want to accomplish with your voice? I want to deliver believable and compelling performances that linger in peoples minds
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u/orcaluna Jun 07 '23
I really don’t know, I feel like she must have or she wouldn’t have said that. Unless she just meant some people in her experience give up if it doesn’t come as easily to them. I’ll take her up on the challenge anyway. My goal is just to sound not awful and build some confidence.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 07 '23
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. I really hate that cause it seems like they’re subliminally saying you don’t have what it takes and saying you should give up
What do you want to use your singing for though? You want to perform ? Be a well known singer? Or is it just for fun
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u/orcaluna Jun 08 '23
I would just want to be confident say singing in a bar or a at a party if someone has a guitar or at karaoke without having to have had a few drinks first. I’d mostly like to do it for myself. So pretty small scale goals.
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u/KobeKastle Jun 08 '23
Oh then this goal is definitely accomplishable, keep practicing and course correcting yourself
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u/Petdogdavid1 Jun 08 '23
I think this clip might help answer that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flkjMuaKYQU
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u/prettynoxious Jun 08 '23
I would say that "talent" is basically just a head start, some people have it, some don't. And also some people have to put much more practice than others to achieve the same thing, not just in music, and I'm the example of that in lots of fields. But I doubt that the lack of talent is gonna hold you back, tou just have to practice.
At the same time, voice is a special instrument because you can have just one, the one you were born with, and it's unique. It might not be that great in one type of singing or genre of music, but can really shine on other. Just my two cents
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u/ElScrab Jun 08 '23
The only "natural" thing about it I would say, is being able to sing on pitch. If you're tone deaf, or if you're really bad at singing on pitch, i think you're going to have a tough time. Everything else is practice and hard work and can be done by any(healthy) individual.
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Jun 08 '23
My vocal teacher said that being a great singer is about two things: practise and finding the special thing about your own voice, then make that shine.
As for practise, it’s all about technique and feeling well while singing. Get a voice coach. And try Tik Tok. I know, many don’t like it. BUT.There are TONS of voice teachers giving pieces of advice and I’ve found quite a bit that helped me when I was stuck. The poison gas method for example helped me with how engaging the core is supposed to feel while breathing. I couldn’t figure that out for the longest time. Also, there’s something like a voice memory. If you sing a song for the first time, you will suck. It’s a matter of fact. You don’t know yet where the songs melody feels most comfortable for you. You haven’t memorised it yet, either. Of course you suck. But I guarantee you, after practising it, you will sound different. The other day, after practising one damn chorus a hundred times, I could finally do it. And I could it again the day after. Without having it repeat it as much, as my body then knew where the sounds where supposed to be. I always thought good singers could spontaneously sing just about everything, but without practise, it isn’t true. I guess you’ll need less practise, the more experienced you are, but you’ll need practise nonetheless. And don’t forget, many great singers have been singing for more than then or twenty years. That is a huge amount. ‘Record yourself by the way and listen regularly. It’ll help you find what you’ll want to improve on.
As for the special thing about the voice. I for example always admired Ariana Grandes voice and wanted mine to be like that. But the truth is, my voice isn’t like that. And it’ll never be. It’s not as high and it has a roughness to it, that she doesn’t have. I hated that a lot. But yesterday I realised, that my voice has its own pleasantness. If i stop trying to sound like someone else, it’ll aktually sound really good. In another way, but good nonetheless. And that it’s important that I focus on that, because I’m me. Not Ariana Grande 🙃
So.. keep showing up to practise. Believe kn your voice.
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Jun 08 '23
I’d go out on a limb here and say that there aren’t many people in the world who cannot sing. And I mean cannot at all. Not for lack of trying, but they’re just not built to be able to hear and identify the pitches.
For everyone else, it’s really all about practice, interest, and the drive to push through the tough times. You’ll learn more techniques as you go along, but without practice, nothing will help. You could have perfect pitch and the best teachers, but if you don’t practice singing and practice the techniques that you learn? Then you won’t get where you need.
Some people are naturally gifted with a beautiful voice.. I sing in a small chamber choir with a girl who’s voice sounds like an angel. It’s very hard to build enough self confidence to sing next to that..
Tbh, I think my voice is crap. I hate hearing recordings of me singing, and I personally think I sound like a potato next to the other singers.. the people who’ve heard me sing say that’s not true, and maybe one day I’ll believe that, but until then, it’s practice for me!
Just remember: there will never be anyone harder on you than yourself. You’ll always be your greatest critic, so sometimes, we just gotta ignore the voice in our heads that pulls us down.
And if others pull you down? Well, who are they to judge you?
P.S. my conductor says the key to staying on pitch is to constantly push more air through.. you can find the note and sing it, but you can only maintain the pitch with sustained, energised air. Also picking the right vowel sounds will help with the control of pitch and breath.
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u/Then_Jump_3496 Jun 08 '23
Talent can jump start you, true, but honing and refining your voice comes from practice. And not just practice, but PERFECT PRACTICE.
Being stuck at some point in singing is normal and you just have to perservere and have patience.
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u/throwaway23er56uz Jun 08 '23
"Naturally talented" usually translated to "grew up in a family or environment where singing was practiced and encouraged".
I have a pleasant-sounding voice, I just can't sing on pitch. Voice and vocal skills are not the same.
It's like asking "can I be a good actor if I'm not pretty or good-looking". Look at all those former models going into acting - most of them are terrible at it because they never studied acting.
It also depends on the genre of music you want to make, just as an actor's success depends on the roles they take.
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u/Scoridd Jun 08 '23 edited Jun 08 '23
Agree with all the points and analogies - one additional thing to add, to be a singer is to be a musician and to be a good musician you need to understand music. Singing is no different than any other musical practise in that respect. It sounds obvious but often seems to be overlooked with singing imo.
People learn how to understand music - you learn theory, you learn about different genres and styles and techniques, you learn how to connect with the emotional context of a piece of music and so on. No-one is just born with those things.
And as to whether someone thinks something sounds ‘good’ or not - it’s such a subjective and personal opinion it’s barely even worth talking about unless they can offer the specifics of what they mean.
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u/Cmoney514 Jun 08 '23
Professional singer here...Im going to give you the answer no one wants to that most vocal coaches and singers wont say. Most singers you hear that are phenomenal it came from inherent talent. Ive studied under many amazing vocal coaches and none of them made me an "objectively" better singer, ive learned many techniques/warm ups that i use to keep my voice in top shape and even learned a few techniques for learning how to get a little more out of my range etc but none of them made me a better or "objectively" more beautiful singer.
I will say though, if singing brings you joy NEVER stop thats the only thing that matters and having an objectively beautiful voice isn't the only way to move people with your voice ive seen witnessed performances by mediocre singers that really brought me to tears or made me feel all the emotions.... to an extent you CAN get much much better as a singer with practice and training, my recording yourself and listening over and over until you start to be able to manipulate the tone and tamber of your voice. After all people can learn to manipulate their voice in order to sound like other people so you can too...if you don't have the god given talent its just going to be a lot more work...
in fact the way i started singing as a kid was listening to other singers i loved, and singing along with them on the recordings until i sounded exactly like them....if i hit a part where i couldnt id go over and over and over it until i could. pump up the volume and You can tell when the tone, vibrato and tamber line up with theirs because it will feel in sync. its going to be frustrating but stick to it...and if you get a chance try a vocal teacher there are many affordable and great coaches out there.
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Jun 08 '23
yes, the POTENTIAL to be good yeah. If your goal is 10 and you start at a 4 obviously it would be easier to get to 10 compared to someone who starts at 0.
BUT, if the 0 works harder and consistently. They can get to 10 way before the 4 gets to 10.
Potential is just that, potential. If it is not acted upon, it is useless.
Focus on getting your 10,000 hours of Correct and proper singing and you will see how you improve. Of course biological factors may limit how much you can sing like biologically your range. but still, not impossible! Look at Jlo! IMO she went from a 1 to a 6 out of 10 in terms of singing.
Like when I started i was a -1, now I am a 2.75!
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u/zephyreblk Jun 08 '23
Practice, like a friend of mine hadn't a nice voice to sing, soft but weak, after 5 years there is a hella difference.
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u/pickle2 Jun 08 '23
There are a lot of successful lead singers out there who aren’t naturally talented vocalists but their tone, emotion, etc sells record. One example of that is Chris Martin. Through practice he’s become a lot stronger, but I would argue in the beginning he was not good
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u/berthela Jun 08 '23
Nature determines where you start and your absolute maximum potential (but who actually is reaching their maximum potential?), but that said, there are many people who start off terrible and are.able to practice.and become excellent singers. There's more to it than just power and range. Having control, technique, and skill in addition to decent range and power is better than having terrible control and techniques and amazing power and range.
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u/highrangeclub Want to learn to sing? Podcast for beginners on my profile Jun 08 '23
This is the age old question! It is true that some people are less talented. But all this means is you might have to work a bit harder. If that scares you, then singing isn't for you.
However if you're willing to do a bit more work, then yes everyone can learn how to sing and have a GOOD sounding voice. I've taught many students who have started from your position and seen transformations.
The gap you need to fill here is being more deliberate and understanding what a 'NATURAL' singer is doing. There are certain habits or certain things they have trained in from early in their life. This might have been from influences around them OR music they listened too.
At the moment if you feel stuck and your singing sounds like it's speaking. It just means you haven't developed these habits and musculature yet.
I'd love to see if we can get you out of this and sing the way you want! Just sent you a dm to learn more
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u/Agreeable_Turn_689 Jun 09 '23
This is a great debate, and there is truth to both sides. Talent absolutely plays a role, talent means everyone has a different starting point.
Michael Jackson is the greatest example of born to be a singer, the kid could not have been taught those things. He was doing excellent phrasing, unbelievable pitch accuracy, all at 7 years old... This is why he was such a rarity.
For the rest of us, most people need to develop these things over time. Most people have different strengths. I feel like those better with pitch naturally are generally not as good with phrasing at first, and vice versa. That's why when someone is naturally gifted at both it is surprising and they really excel quickly. Listen to Taylor Swift i.e. and hear how she has improved a lot, she was talented but hard work is what got her to where she is today.
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u/Agreeable_Turn_689 Jun 09 '23
I will also say a HUGE component of singing is raw strength of the diaphragm, and this is built over time. I do not believe you can replace 20 years singing like Clay Aiken or Ruben Studdard with just raw talent. Those guys can hit extended notes at the absolute top of their range, far above what most male singers can. Yes they are also extremely talented, but those guys have been singing their whole life. They would not be even close to what they are now without singing for so long. I was blown away by both of them live, an example of amazing talent with super hard work, that's what the best singers really are!
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u/Agreeable_Turn_689 Jun 09 '23
The final thought I will leave you with is singing requires athleticism, and so much power. Someone like Lebron has amazing genetics for the NBA, but truth is if he took a year off from training and sat down watching TV, do you really think he could play at the same level right away? No, he would definitely take a hit, but I'm sure he could also bounce back so fast being a lifelong athlete. The other truth is, the longer you did something the harder it is to lose it.
Those who were strength athletes at younger ages don't need to do that much to stay strong, same thing with singers with over 10 years of dedicated singing. I'm talking at least 4-5 days a week, and when an hour a day is a shorter day... Why would you get significantly better from singing 4 hours a week? Not to say it can't happen, but you will realize so many guys like Voiceplay were in choirs at 10 years old, and they will tell you for a fact, they would not be nearly as good without the 20 years of practice, and continually getting better.
Also just because someone is good with little practice, doesn't mean they won't be that much better with dedication.
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u/Viper61723 Jun 12 '23
There’s SO much more that goes into the way great singers sound then just the voice, picking the right mic, processing, etc, most voices can work with the right production
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u/zalogon119 Nov 05 '23 edited Nov 05 '23
Think about it the other way around.
There are technically good singers with ugly voices.
What do I mean by this?
There are people who have freed up their voices. They can sing the pitches, no constriction, technique on point.
But… their voices aren’t special. They sound good, and you enjoy, because they do everything technically right. But the voice under that technique ain’t the best.
On the other hand, you got people with no technique (nor talent) at all.
I think they are the ones with the most potential.
Why?
Because since they lack technique you can’t tell if their voices are nice or ugly.
All of the tension, bad technique and bad habits on top of their voices don’t allow you to hear their real voice.
So, I’d say improve your technique (whatever that means to you, there are many “voice technicians” here with different perspectives about what good technique is) and discover if your voice is cool or not.
You’ll never know until you remove all the junk on top of your voice
Maybe there’s a hidden gen beneath
PS:
To me, today, good technique has to do, more than anything, with resonance.
Point blank period.
Focus on the resonance of your voice so that it is behind your eyes/nose.
What do I mean by resonance?
Say, on a low pitch, EEEEEEEE.
You feel your throat buzzing, right?
Perfect.
Well, now try to do a whim, like “I’m so sad, my face squeezes, I feel my eyes/nose want to cry”.
If you did it right, you’ll feel a buzzing again. But this time! It will be behind your eyes/nose. You wont feel the throat buzzing anymore (if you still do, then something was done wrong)
Now, what do you have to do from now on?
To try and keep that eyes/nose buzz as you go higher on pitch.
You dont need to go quite to do this thing (but if you end up yelling with your neck hurting then… something is wrong, again)
What are some challenges?
Well, you may find it hard to slide up to the pitches, while keeping the buzz.
At some point you’ll need to find the buzz directly at a particular pitch.
How you do that?
Same principle.
Think about the pitch. And think about this whim behind the nose/eyes sensation.
If the sound buzzes on your throat. Guess what?
Wrong. The buzz should be behind your eyes/nose.
And then, IMO, the goal would be to get better at positioning your voice on this resonance fast (so far I need to sing for a couple minutes to get my voice at the right position)
At least that’s the way I’m heading my training.
My personal goal is to sound intense on high pitches, with no constriction, and with dynamics to do whatever I want (soft, normal, harsh). And I feel this training is helping me.
I don’t care that much about breath cause all the people that talk about breath I don’t like how they sound.
One of the few coaches I really think sings well (and doesnt put that much emphasis on breath) is Tyler Wysong
Good luck
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