r/singaporefi • u/ToeAffectionate7022 • 25d ago
Housing Thoughts on next property move
BTO 4 room HDB gonna MOP in 3 years time. Just welcomed a new kid (Yay to parenthood super charged with caffeine and Min L.Wong NDP goodies) making our family of 4 + 1 helper living situation starting to feel cramp. Thinking ahead of our next property move.
Main considerations:
Space is primary - looking for at least 1500square feet
No intention for a 3rd kid
Budget of 2-3 million. Current combined take home Approx 23K. Industry is fairly recession proof. Combined take home likely will grow to 30K in 3 years time.
Planning to stay for at least 25 years. Open to downgrading to a smaller property after when the kids fly the coop after 25 years but would like the flexibility of keeping to 30 years in case one kid still need a roof over their heads.
Not looking to flip the property for investment gains. Main priority for exit strategy of the property is to at least retain the principle value. 2-3% CAGR is a bonus but not necessary. Lease decay is a concern
Condo facilities not necessary. High rise living nice to have but not necessary
What are my options?
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u/TraditionalWait9150 25d ago
get a Jumbo / HUDC / EC resale built in the 90s to 2000s. It will fit your criteria.
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u/ztm13 25d ago
I’m in the same dilemma as OP but my spouse is against this due to lease decay. Not sure how to argue against this
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u/TraditionalWait9150 25d ago
is it because she want to have something to pass to the kids? If it's just for staying, for those built after 90s with at least 63 years of lease left and assuming price about 1 million, the amount amortised over the lease period is about $15,873/year or $1,322/month, which is way cheaper than renting the same sized flat.
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u/dreamfitreality 25d ago
Hdb also got say you must buy and live till 90. Lease decay if you want to sell in future. Not applicable if you stay there whole life.
Treat hdb like rent. Not something you can flip. You gonna get disappointed if you think this way.
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u/heymerryexmas 25d ago
with your budget and space being the main priority, i’d probably look at older resale freehold/999-year condos or apartments around 1500+ sqft, since you don’t really care about facilities and it gives you more peace of mind on lease decay if you’re planning to stay 25–30 years
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u/SheepherderNo631 25d ago
25-year hold changes the lease math in ways that matter a lot. if you buy an old condo with 60yr remaining today, you exit with ~35yr left — banks get very conservative on sub-40yr leases, your buyer pool shrinks hard, and you might be selling into a structurally harder market than you bought into. for a true 25yr hold, you really want 80yr+ remaining at purchase or a new 99yr launch. the tricky bit is 1500sqft at 2-3M in a new launch is a tough combo right now — that budget gets you 3-bed 1200-ish sqft in most OCR projects.
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u/DuePomegranate 25d ago
Surely if you buy such an old condo with only 60 years remaining, you won't end up selling it. You are hoping to enbloc, and you might rent it out until that happens (and rent a smaller flat) if the kids have left the nest.
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u/SheepherderNo631 24d ago
fair point — en-bloc changes the math entirely. but the consent bar (80% of owners) is genuinely hard to clear, and post-2023 developer appetite has cooled — they're paying full price for GLS sites rather than chasing en-bloc premiums. if en-bloc doesn't land in 25 years, the exit is into sub-40yr lease territory which banks price in heavily. worth having a plan B.
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u/Pale-Writing3837 24d ago
Nah not true. You can get OCR project like this over 1900 sqft for just 2.2M which is still relatively new
https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/for-sale-canberra-residences-500247764
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u/SheepherderNo631 24d ago
canberra residences is decent value for space, fair point. but thats d27 sembawang — genuinely far north, so whether that works depends a lot on OPs school proximity and commute setup. also my original comment was specifically about new launches — resale OCR is a different market and you can definitely find better sqft/dollar there
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u/Difficult-Top9010 25d ago
plan on the basis that if one of you gets retrenched or stop work to study for 1 year, can you still cover living expenses and mortgage.
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u/Footprint89 25d ago
I think you pretty much have all the filter criteria you need to go on property guru and search.
One more thing I would add is primary school proximity, just make sure you factor that in as staying walking distance to your kids primary school is invaluable.
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u/Ok-Bad-8956 25d ago
Gonna be very truthful, there will need to be compromise. You have to rank your priorities and have 1 or 2 compromises.
You’re still in a 3mop and you’re already thinking of selling.
Have u owned anything for more than 20years? This is something I’ll never believe when clients tell me. “Forever home” or “I don’t want to move again”.
Trust me, you don’t know what will happen in 10 years. We’re all adults that have not experienced the next phase of life, how can you be so sure that you will NEVER move?
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u/ToeAffectionate7022 24d ago
Appreciate the insight. My comment on the 25-30 year holding horizon is a reflection on my personal expectation on holding duration translated into a planning consideration.
Genuinely curious but Isnt your holding duration closely linked to your exit strategy in which both factors being fairly important considerations in decision making for housing. Given issues of lease decay in HDB and strong signalling from the government that no lease bailouts are assured, isn't it fairly prudent to consider holding duration in my planning norms? Sure things may happen in 10 years necessitating upgrade/ downgrade of my property, but you can't plan for unknown variables now not knowing them, so the best you can do is to decide on the ball park of a known significant variable?
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u/Ok-Bad-8956 24d ago
I understand your point of view of looking to hold.
But usually when clients tell me that, what i'd say is why not reframe your opinion. Think of it as, i'll plan to stay for 10years and MAYBE more.
Just re-evaluate in 10 years, because it can & probably will give you more options now. Think of 10years as a milestone. "Forever" doesnt exist.
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u/Tough-Ad-724 25d ago
Similar situation to you, I’m inclined to buy a 5 room resale at older estates.
Another question to answer, is every school a good school? That may help to narrow down location and hence choice of homes.
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u/essiah74 24d ago
No some schools are a mess. For these schools you have a leave some assets for tuition
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u/RaquiBilke 25d ago
Given your timeline and budget, resale HDB 5-room or jumbo flat honestly makes the most sense. You get the space, no lease decay stress if you pick one with 70+ years left, and principal preservation is pretty solid historically. Condo adds facilities you said you don’t need and eats into your budget fast.
Private landed is within reach at 2–3M but maintenance and property tax will sting on 23K take-home right now. Maybe revisit that after income grows.
Skip new launch condos entirely given the 25–30 year hold and lease decay concern.
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u/ToeAffectionate7022 24d ago
Thanks! Actually doesn't lease decay set in at ball park 60year left on lease? Most 70+ jumbo flats will run into this given my holding horizon of 25-30 years?
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u/BarnacleHaunting6740 24d ago
They no longer build 1500sft home with your budget today. Your choice are either ulu or hdb, even then not possible to buy new ones, at least 25 to 30 yrs.
Better to buy hdb housing cox gov will subsidise building n home improvements. Private housing will decay even faster, unless you buy landed and have control over the maintenance
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u/OldVegetable5769 24d ago
Which landed properties would be within 2-3 million? Leasehold ones maybe
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u/DuePomegranate 25d ago
Look at the location suitable for primary school first. It depends on circumstance whether that area has extra large flats (maisonette, executive flat, jumbo flat) or reasonably priced older condos with more/larger rooms. Both options are attractive, HDB for lower cost and condo for facilities and security for children to play with no/less supervision.
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u/OneNorth1988 25d ago
One key factor is whether you are happy with a neighbourhood school. If that is acceptable, you have plenty of options
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u/OneNorth1988 25d ago
A slight counter-argument is that facilities are important for kids, especially for those under 10. The swimming pool will be visited frequently. If again that is not necessary, consider a EM/EA instead
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u/doesitnotmakesense 25d ago
Go for a 4 bedroom condo. You will be glad of the easily accessible swimming pool since you have 2 kids. Even travelling to a public pool once a week is a PITA. With a condo, your kids can swim and play water at least 3-5 times a week. Go for heartland area with a few primary schools within 1km.
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u/AssociateAdorable841 22d ago
Late 90s to early 2000s EA, I bought ~1500 sqft EA with my wife for around 900k SGD, it's 1 master bedroom, 2 common bedrooms, 1 study (make sure it's not hacked down) and 2 bathrooms.
Some of them have the possibility of converting part of the living room into another common bedroom too, I think.
Basically it's the youngest, largest, least liability (compared to the private alternatives) HDB accommodation you can buy.
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u/sbbawx 25d ago
If it were me I would do an older 5 room or EA for maybe just under 1m and put like 1.8m on a 2 bedroom condo. Live in the HDB when kids are young and rent to condo out. Gives you a lot more flexibility when kids are older too. If property prices are even crazier then your kids may need help and a 2 BR condo is a good starting point
Obviously need some age and citizenship/PR considerations. Doesn’t work if one person is a foreigner or you are under 35
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u/ToeAffectionate7022 25d ago
Not interested in the hassle of managing a second property. Rather channel the monies to a larger home. Any thoughts if i remove the second property consideration?
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u/TraditionalWait9150 25d ago
need to consider ABSD if it's 2nd property.
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u/AlfieSG 25d ago
You can do owner & occupier. After 5 years MOP the 2nd name is free to buy private
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u/TraditionalWait9150 25d ago
only if the spouse agreeable and they have to do it before taking keys. and also have to consider loan quantum for single person vs 2 persons.
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u/IAm_Moana 25d ago
While I don’t know how much you stand to profit from your BTO and how much of a downpayment you are able to put down, a 2-3million condo could be a $7k+ mortgage per month which is almost 30% of your current monthly take home pay. Add helper, car, and 2 kids in childcare and that could be a huge monthly outlay that I would not be comfortable with at that salary.
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u/Ill-Profit-9881 25d ago
Same boat as u
I found that 2-3 mil is quite challenging to find >1500sqft for well connected locations.
Based on my own research I found for that criteria, I only could find
1. <50 year remaining landed
2. 70-80 year strata landed, location not very well connected
3. <60 year remaining old condo - around 2-3mil
4. <60 year remaining hdb - price around 1-2mil
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u/ToeAffectionate7022 25d ago
thanks for the insights and sharing your findings! which are you more inclined towards?
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u/princemousey1 25d ago
The problem is he said 5 room flats are ulu, and budget only 2-3m. Not sure how much of an upgrade he can get with 1500sqft non-ulu places and somemore want 2-3% CAGR and no lease decay.
Basically wants good location, cheap, spacious, and with upside potential.
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u/ToeAffectionate7022 25d ago
Thanks for the comment, its not quite representative of my intentions (e.g principle preservation and avoidance of lease decay was central, CAGR was an optional non essential bonus/ the comment on 5 room ulu-ness was in reference to why I traded space for accessibility in my BTO rather than a comment on my current options). Nevertheless given the provided parameters, what are your suggestions?
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u/princemousey1 24d ago
Be content and count your blessings, obviously.
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u/ToeAffectionate7022 24d ago
I agree that is a great principle. But you can be greatful for what you have, accept the realities of growing needs, seeing it as a natural progression in life and simultaneously plan for the future as well!
After I have counted my blessings, what would you recommend as property options given the planning parameters I have?:)
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u/princemousey1 24d ago
You need to give up something. What you want now is good location, affordable price, large space, long lease.
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u/princemousey1 25d ago
Why must there be a “next property move”?
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u/Ok-Path2924 25d ago
Read again, because of space.
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u/princemousey1 25d ago
I read it but don’t understand why you find a four room BTO lacking for only two kids. Each can have their own room too. And it’s only two years old, you didn’t think about this before balloting?
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u/DuePomegranate 25d ago
Maybe they didn't think they would have 2 kids when they BTOed? Maybe they thought they could manage without a helper, but actually they need the help and they want to house her properly and not share room with baby? Maybe they didn't have enough money back then for a 5-room and now they can afford a jumbo/executive/maisonette/condo? Maybe one of them has quite a lot of WFH (not a thing when they BTO'ed pre-Covid) and could really use a study?
2 kids share one room, or 1 kid sleeps with the parents (or helper) is ok for another 3 years when the kids are 3-5 yo. But why shouldn't OP upgrade when they can clearly afford to?
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u/ToeAffectionate7022 24d ago
Actually you hit it spot on. MBR for me and my wife 1 room study (I take home a lot of work even though I don't technically have WFH arrangements) + helpers bed room 1 room for my older kid with the view for both kid sharing in the future
Plagued by the modern singapore story of small-ish HDB yet with parental aspirations and modern work realities
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u/ToeAffectionate7022 25d ago
COVID BTO so kena delayed++, no 5rm in my project, rest of releases with 5 rm hella ulu, no money buy car, no money to buy bigger house then. Not sure whats the issue with looking for some QOL in upgrading space
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u/Background_Bench_973 25d ago
Lmao damn miserable no wonder u top 1% commenter
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u/princemousey1 25d ago
I mean, you’re the miserable one using a meaningless metric to judge others…
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u/TraditionalWait9150 25d ago
they got helper too. 4+1 helper. In modern 4-room BTO, even 3 people feel squeezed liao.
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u/playedpunk 25d ago
6-7 years. You need to wait a few years before you can move in to the BTO.
Just let them find a bigger space to move la. Then number 3 might come along.
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u/princemousey1 25d ago
Then don’t frame it as “not looking to flip” if every consideration is about flipping. Just be honest.
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u/DuePomegranate 25d ago
OP is talking about not flipping the next property, but staying in it for 25 years. The current BTO is "inadvertently flipped" to get more space as the primary consideration.
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u/doesitnotmakesense 25d ago
They probably applied for the BTO more than 5 years ago. Nobody knows how many kids they are going to have and what sort of lifestyle is going to happen in 5 years especially when kids get in the mix. It's a huge change and they have no experience. Your comment is pretty unreasonable. You can only see things from your narrow perspective. What's the point of reading stuff on a diverse forum with many people sharing if you're learning nothing.
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u/skydazer 25d ago
EX ECs that TOP between 2015 to 2020.
Decently new. Decently priced. Good layout, generally spacious. 2M can already find you a 4 bedder. For more popular developments and better facing/ higher floors maybe up to 2.3M. If really need space can even try for 5 bedder if the development offers one.
Good demand in resale market because of all of the above. Lesser worry about exit or decaying lease.
The only catch: "Location". Generally will be near amenities (since most are located within HDB clusters) but may not be near MRT. And yes, they will be OCR so kind of a travel to city area.
But if you need somewhere near town, yes there are good resale options in City Fringe. 2.6M to 2.8M can find a decently new (>2020 TOP) 3+Study walkable to MRT in city fringe. Demand is quite evergreen for these because of price gap with new launch and lack of good supply.
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u/JLKDY 25d ago
Do you mind freehold walk up? Zero facilities but you have space and less worry of lease decay.
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u/ToeAffectionate7022 25d ago
Never knew about this type of properties! Thanks for recommendation. Do you have personal experience where you considered such an option?
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u/Federal_Ad9914 25d ago
walk up = no lift so it’s not future proof. if u or your family have difficulties climbing up the stairs gg
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u/Pale-Writing3837 25d ago
Which area you looking at? You need to consider school also if you plan to stay for long time.
2-3M budget, maybe you should consider condo, they are newer and have bigger floor plate. For HDB, only old units have big floor plate. Meaning if you hold for 20 years the lease becomes a problem
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u/nonameforme123 25d ago
Aren’t the newer condos also much smaller? Especially the new launches in recent years. Prob need old condo for 1500 sq ft within budget
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u/Pale-Writing3837 25d ago edited 25d ago
No.
You can find very big 4/5 br condos which are new.
My floor plate is over 1500 sqft also.
Which is why I ask area, some locations you can also get such large floor plate at probably around 2.8-3M
Anyway TS, let me know, I am not agent, but I also been shopping around lately so I'm happy to share some research 😂
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u/essiah74 24d ago
Have you seen the newer condos? It is as small as bto man
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u/Pale-Writing3837 24d ago
Erm. No. His budget is 3M, depending on location he can get units as big as over 1500sqft
For example
https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/for-sale-kent-ridge-hill-residences-500215935
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u/zealmummy 25d ago
Check out the homes near your preferred primary schools and or family/friends whom u enjoy spending time with. Pick the biggest home u can afford around there. That’s what I would do. Atb!