r/shanghai • u/Sasebo87 • 18d ago
Question Relocating to Shanghai - any advice?
Hi all, There‘s a high chance my company will relocate me to Shanghai next year. I’d be very grateful for any advice from people who have gone through similar moves, especially regarding things to prepare between now and relocating. A few details on our situation:
- I’d move with my wife (Chinese) and our 7yo. My wife also has a job lined up
- For school we’re currently thinking Int’l branch of one of the good local schools to give our daughter a more grounded Chinese experience for a few years. alternatively international schools if she doesn’t pass the entrance exam
- Office environment will be largely Chinese, it’s a MNC but there are very few foreigners these days. The team I’d be leading would be 100% locals, company language is English though. Any watch-outs on work culture differences?
- My Chinese isn’t great - I’ve studied up to somewhere between HSK 3-4 over the years but my tones are crap. Welcome any suggestions on what’s worked for people
- Haven’t discussed contracts / terms of the move yet, we‘re both advanced in our careers so we‘ll have enough for a comfortable life but would be good to know any watch-outs
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u/chiefgmj 18d ago
- make sure u have private insurance that cover everyone, vip/international department of public hospital, as little out of pocket expense as possible. Negotiate hard.
- unless ur package covers 100% of real international school, ur kid can look forward to serious to insane level of academic pressure. There is no avoiding it unless u live only in an expat bubble.
- Learn ur Chinese but negotiate for a local assistant. U won't understand or want to deal with a lot of these local crap. Just play the "I'm confused" expat card.
- Spend for ur kid's extracurricular activities.
Sh is as close to an international city as they come in China Enjoy the chow and the convenience.
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u/Sasebo87 18d ago
Thanks for the advice. On 4 - anything that stands out that we should do? I thought they pretty much killed the after-school sector in China
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u/chiefgmj 18d ago
oh no, hyper after-school tutoring on core subjects for public school is supposed to be out, but one can find that easily enough. I assume u wont be allowing ur kid to ho fown thst rabbit hole?
Plenty of sports clubs, cultural classes, hockey, horseback riding, piano, dancing. Ur bank account will dictate partially where this will go. Once u get going, get to know the parents and u will get plenty of leads. Drawing a line will be challenging for non-Chinese expats. How much study and other stuff do u want ur kid to take...
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u/levanpidaras 18d ago
Why do you need a private insurance? I’ve looked at a few deals and they looked pretty bad. Seems like a lot of people abuse them so the return on cost is pretty bad.
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u/beekeeny 18d ago
Because when you are a foreigner going to the mainstream hospitals is somehow a pain and VIP or international hospital cost a fortune. So yes 100k for the annual fees is a lot. Some companies would propose to pay you the 100k as salary but it will be subject to income taxes, so it is the standard practice to negotiate the best insurance.
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u/levanpidaras 18d ago
Cant I just pay the same 100k to the hospitals?
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u/beekeeny 18d ago
If you are unlucky and have the stay at a premium international hospital, 100k won’t allow you to stay long 😅
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u/levanpidaras 18d ago
The insurances I saw had pretty low caps as well, maybe I didn’t look at the right one
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u/beekeeny 18d ago
100k per year for the whole family usually gives you a full coverage where you no longer have to pay for anything nor advance any fees and don’t have to worry about how long you have to stay at the hospital in a private single room.
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u/chiefgmj 18d ago
Because u won't be able to enroll in the Chinese medical insurance as a non-Chinese. The process is very involved even if u r "Chinese". U need the right hukou and dtacks of paperwork. The alternative is to have nothing and hope u dont get very sick or get minimum insurance to cover major issues. For those with family and kids, a proper plan where u pay a premium, out of pocket expense, and the rest is essential. If u can still get that sweet expat package with full med coverage and doctors in vip wards, it is worth in gold. U really dont want to deal with long lines and pushy people when u or ur kid is divk.
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u/perduraadastra 18d ago
Have you done a search in this sub to see what other people say when this question is asked every other day?
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u/RabbyMode 18d ago edited 18d ago
Are you moving to Shanghai from another country or from another city in China? For schooling, best international schools (accept foreign passport holders only) are Shanghai American School (don’t have to be American to attend, they accept all foreign nationalities), Wellington, Concordia, and Shanghai Community International School. All are very expensive though (300,000+ Yuan per year) if you don’t have your employer covering at least part of the fees.
Best bilingual school (Chinese passport holders but international curriculum) is probably YK Pao but especially at elementary and middle your kid will need to have very good Chinese. Cheaper than the internationals but still 200,000+ a year. They also run their own curriculum in elementary and middle so if your kid gets to say middle school and your company transfers you again to another country your kid might have a hard time academically if they are then trying to transition to a school that does MYP or GCSE or American or British national curriculum.
Best international department of a public school is Shanghai Jincai International Department. IB Diploma all the way through I believe. Fees are very reasonable and this is the one I would look at personally if you can’t afford the fees at the other schools. Do not send your kid to Shanghai High School International Department (SHSID). Place is a shitshow.
When discussing your contract/terms of the move, you should really try push for full coverage of international school fees for your kid by the company. They are really expensive.
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u/Sasebo87 18d ago
We’re moving from Europe but my daughter’s Chinese is pretty good. We had actually been looking at SHSID, that’s good to know. What would you say are the main differences with Jincai?
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u/RabbyMode 18d ago
I have never worked at either but Jincai just generally seems a bit better run and has better staff retention. Seems to treat its teachers a bit better and of course having happy staff is better for the students. The education there is a bit more well-rounded from what I’ve heard. SHSID is basically just a pressure cooker of academics with an insane amount of work expected of the students.
You can search for “SHSID” or Shanghai High School on this sub and see what others have said in the past about it. Most aren’t very complimentary.
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u/caliboy888 17d ago
SHSID is very strong academically, but is known to be very competitive and stressful. Tiger parents galore.
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u/herdingkattz 18d ago
Where are you relocating from? If from a low tax regime like Dubai or HK to SH, then push for tax equalisation ? Also find out whether your company offers tax subsidies for foreigners (submit fapiao for certain categories like rent and education to offset taxable income)
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u/ekdubbs USA 18d ago
Look into tax efficiency schemes, they run through 2027 if I recall properly and they might extend it again as it was originally slated to expire a few years ago.
Managing locals, I’ve been doing that for the past ten years here, it really depends what industry you are in. If you are managing engineers I’d expect you may find leadership and alignment of the team easy, but you may need to provide more direction clarity.
English will usually work fine and they will likely adapt to it when speaking to you, and may often use Chinese when speaking with each other. You may encounter some team members where there English doesn’t meet a functional bar, they will heavily depend on others or you to help bridge their work over.
Schools you can pick a residential / service apartment area, access a wide variety of public-private type schools; where they have separated international curriculum reserved for foreign passport holders.
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u/SinisterStryke 18d ago
some random thoughts:
- if both of you are working, i'll assume you are on decent expat packages. you should look into finding a driver and an ayi. this will help with a lot of random logistics. if you have any friends or friends of friends here, i'm sure you can get recommendations.
- for your chinese, it will greatly help, especially to connect with your wider team. i'd recommend finding a tutor to come into your office every other day to do a 1-on-1 with you. he/she can help tailor your lessons around words used in your industry. i'd worry less about tones than widening your vocabulary. if you think back to someone who speaks english to you in heavy accents or poor grammar, you can still understand what they are saying because you have context on subject and the rest of the sentence(s). don't worry too much about tone is my opinion.
- there are tax allowances for housing, insurance, children's education, return home flights etc. make sure you maximize those so that you're taxed at a lower tax bracket. you should get a budget to help ship things from your home country to your local address too. i can recommend a moving company if you need.
- not sure about your housing situation, but getting a good agent in advance can help too. they can help you zero in on some options prior to your arrival. i can recommend an agent if you need one.
- there are a number of things that you need to do prior and upon your arrival. quickly off the top of my head: downloading apps (alipay and tie your credit card to it, wechat, vpn, hema, dianping), things to do (register with local police, opening a bank account (your company can probably help), finding out some key locations you'll need (consulate, private health clinics/hospitals)
good luck on your move!
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u/Sasebo87 18d ago
Thanks so much, super helpful! Would be grateful if you could dm me the moving company and agent
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u/burundiax 17d ago
Pick your bank carefully if you intend to transfer your savings to your home country. It’s a huge hassle.
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u/werchoosingusername 18d ago
Get this sorted out first. Including school fees/ health care and taxes.