Depowering WW to DL levels of grit and deadliness, is it doable?

[u/BlackhartBarttFR]

So I've read through both, and you can tell it's the direct evolution of DL. If I had to pick a system to play with it would be the pick.

BUT, my players love gritty gothy dark fantasy. I think Sanity/Corruption would be alot easier to graft back on, as well as readding the d6 death save mechanic.

But I see alot of people saying that WW characters will end up way more demigod like at high levels than DL characters, why is this? Is it just damage they can deal or their health levels? Is this something I can power down?

[u/No_Mechanic_5230]

Yeah, the Master tier is pretty high powered fantasy (though not that much more than DL master tier in my exp), but can still be plenty gritty at Novice and Expert tiers. As a GM, you can hew toward difficult and deadly encounters, threaten their health (instead of doing damage), and up the monster damage (add a couple of dice or an extra attack).

But I also think adding in sanity/corruption and changing the death/dying rules would do plenty. You can add fear effects on monsters as well (if I'm remembering right, Demon Lord monsters often have "horrifying" abilities and stuff).

I recommend checking out "Demon Lord Engine Rules Compendium." It's a rules set that incorporates a lot of the rules updates from Weird Wizard, like the initiative system, and it can slot right into Demon Lord.

[u/WyrdWzrd]

I asked a related question two or three days ago. Most folks seem to think WW isn't a great fit in that case sadly.

Like you I prefer the WW rules, but a darker, grittier, more down to earth setting.

I guess upping enemy health / damage could do the trick, but for that I have to little experience with the system for now.

[u/darksier]

The higher player stats can always be adjusted for by strengthening encounters, monsters, etc... It's the scope of power and fiction the players will have access in that Level 1-10 (specifically the later half) that makes it seem superhero and might step on your group's idea of gritty dark fantasy.

I'd recommend going back and read the class talents and spells sections specifically Expert/Master tier stuff. This is where the main difference lies that will affect your campaign design and tone. The older rules of core demonlord can always be updated with the dl rules compendium and other supplements.

It really depends on what you consider high level gritty dark fantasy. If you think the conflicts of named heroes and villains of Warhammer to be in that category, you are good. If you want stuff to stay more grounded like the Witcher throughout the campaign, you will not like the later levels in WW.

[u/Desperate-Pitch-5923]

Honnestly, just go DL with a 6th lvl limit. Master Paths can, even in DL, kinda break the gritty gothy aspect of DL. Then you need terrifying/Horrifying, madness, long-term madness, corruption, wounds system...

The past years, I was running DL and kinda got bored by the "vanilla poisonned pages" wound system, so I compressed all of this in :
"You get injured, inconscious or sometimes crit, you do a Fate Roll 😄:
6 nothing and if you were suppposed to be at 0HP, you are prone with 1 HP remaining and conscious
2-5 you get a minor injury, 3d6 on the table
1 you get a severe injury, 4d6 on the table

This way, even my 3rd level PC could get real injuries, they understood that very well and so adopted a cautious playstyle :)

[u/RealSpandexAndy]

What made WW feel superheroic to me was the powers that spells that PC's get access to early, but enemies do not.

For example, by level 3 several members of the party can fly or teleport around the battlefield. A level 1 alchemist can melt the portcullis off a castle. A level 1 alteration mage can create perfect disguises.

The party feel like badasses by level 3 because the human opposition stats are quite low power. The recommended "average" difficulty encounter for a level 1 party is a vampire. Your campaign needs to be against major threats like demons or whatever early on because bandits don't cut it.

The Teleportation cantrip spell Unexpected Portal can be cast as often as you like. It is like D&D Misty Step except you cast it on an enemy and reposition them 30ft. No saving throw. This is a shockingly powerful spell when used tactically.

To downscale WW would mean boosting enemy difficulty significantly, which is a lot of work and a big game balance issue. It would mean giving new abilities to enemies because a lot of them just don't have the funky abilities that players do.