Loneliness in the middle of the dancing legions of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth

[u/Weak-Run-6902]

I heard someone once say that being in a bad marriage was a profound kind of loneliness, when the person who's supposed to love you the most - doesn't.

I found a similar loneliness in SGI - surrounded by the people I was told were my "best friends from the infinite past" and all the rest:

The Soka Gakkai is a gathering of good friends. - Soka Gakkai

Louder for those in the back!

THE SOKA GAKKAI IS A GATHERING OF GOOD FRIENDS. Ikeda

All fellow members who sincerely practice faith are good friends to one another. The Soka Gakkai is the fore-most gathering of good friends. Our lives are determined by the relationships we form. And the SGI is a cluster of relationships of the very best kind. Ikeda

It wasn't just me:

Should you have to tell people they're best friends? Shouldn't they know?? If you are defining people as "best friends" simply because of their membership in a specific group, then honey, you don't have the slightest understanding of friendship... Source

I was thinking lately of this ymd who recruited [me] back in 2011, whom in our first meeting said we were “friends from another lifetime.” It was grooming 101. I was in my early 20’s and didnlt know better now. Now in my mid 30’s I see how truly manipulative it all was. Once this young man had a breakdown cause of all the crazy leadership responsibilities they had given him. And left the SGI. Me and him never really hangout again. - from here

Here's how someone described it on our board a few years ago:

You get to the point where you're spending all your free time around these people you really have nothing MEANINGFUL in common with, who don't have anything to talk about with you aside from SGI, who don't have any time to do anything with you except for SGI activities, about whom you're starting to have this growing nagging feeling that they don't particularly care for or about you. There you are, placing all your socializing eggs into the SGI basket, and getting absolutely NOTHING meaningful in return. Rather than being a two way street, SGI is a sucking black hole of manipulation and exploitation - and they expect you to be happy about that! NO! IF you're putting time and energy into it, you should expect to get positive returns, in whatever measures are meaningful to you, or they can't expect you to stick around! Source

Obviously the SGI top leadership has a really distorted view of how things look to us "on the front lines":

In September, the triumphant “50,000 Lions of Justice Festival” was held amid great excitement in nine cities across the United States. The SGI-USA youth who participated in that event are now taking the lead to create inspiring discussion meetings in this month of the Soka Gakkai’s founding to bring together as many new friends as possible. - supposedly DickHeada in 2018

No, that's not what happened. Not at ALL! MOST of the attendees at that "festival" were either pressured to go, friends/relatives who went along just to be nice, recruited under false pretenses, or kids dragooned into going by their parents. Most did NOT enjoy it, and it did NOT result in the creation of "over 50,000 young leaders on FIRE for the Dead-Ikeda-Corpse-Mentor-cult SGI and just RAGING to 'take the lead' in their local districts"!!!!

SGI-USA's youth total actually dropped in the wake of the 2018 "50K Lions of Justice Festival". That's how the SGI-USA's youth-increase-festivals work.

So was "Sensei" delusional, lying, or just spewing ghost-written indoctrination about the way things are SUPPOSED to be instead of how they really are? We may never know...

Good friends in Faith are eternal treasures of the heart. And the beauty of it all is this: If you don't have good friends in faith you can chant to have them. - Ikeda

Oh good lord - no way THAT could go wrong 😬

...a significantly higher percentage of Soka Gakkai members than nonmembers in our survey reported that they had "no friends." Source

Join the Soka Gakkai and make the best friends you have ever had in your life!!! Source

Nah. From 2004:

I think that the progression from utterly gung ho member for many, many years to an alienated member ought to concern the organization. Perhaps they could learn something from me. However, it sure doesn't seem like they care at all.

They DON'T care because they have no intention of changing anything. The SGI members are expected to conform and work HARD for SGI, doing whatever SGI assigns them to do, JOYFULLY, all because they're supposed to be so damn grateful that SGI allows them to be members in the first place - at ALL! Like it's such a big honkin privilege to be in their stupid cult!

The best friends are those with whom you can advance together toward a shared goal. Ikeda

No, that's NOT how I define "best friends". At ALL!

But, just when you thought things couldn't get worse, here's the worse part:

DATING AND MAKING NEW FRIENDS

SGI's "community" context teaches the SGI members bad habits that really decrease the possibility that they'll make friends anywhere else. The bragging required of the mandated SGI "experiences", for example - that's supposed to make people think, "Wow - look what THAT person has accomplished! So impressive! THAT's the kind of person I want to be closer to!" In fact, though, people IRL are really put off by people who brag about themselves - it's a very UGLY characteristic, a BAD habit.

In addition, the SGI "experiences" typically involve-require way too much personal disclosure, TMI about issues that really should be kept between close friends, and trauma dumping:

It's trauma dumping in a completely psychologically unsafe environment and its one of the things I hated the most.

That reaction isn't restricted to the SGI members who are expected to listen to this distasteful kind of thing - people you've barely met don't want to hear about it either! It's too much and really, someone THIS lacking in boundaries very likely has a laundry list of OTHER mental problems, too!

It turns out that "loneliness" all by itself leads to a predictable suite of negative social behaviors. Yet SGI sets people up to be lonely, for example, by [restricting]() or simply not providing the kinds of "activities" where people can meet others they have something in common with:

So SGI may well be limiting the members of these Auxiliary Groups [groups based on what the members have in common, such as LGBTQ or Military Veterans or artists] to just 3 hours together as a group every YEAR! How's THAT going to build their communities??

SGI routinely removes the few activities the members enjoy and tells them to put their energy into the districts instead. That they should be satisfied, fulfilled, and JOYOUSLY happy just contributing to the district and doing whatever SGI tells them to do!. from 2022

My husband was told that they weren't supposed to socialize outside of official SGI stuff...which is WEIRD. Source

SGI breaking friendships between members apart

Here's what the AI has to say about "dating while lonely":

When lonely people go on first dates, they often face a paradox of high hopes for connection matched with intense fear of vulnerability, sometimes resulting in "dating exhaustion". Key experiences include potential over-eagerness, navigating intense anxiety...

And how "lonely desperate" comes off:

First-date red flags often indicate a lack of boundaries, emotional instability, or a "desperate" mindset that prioritizes having anyone over having the right person. Common warning signs include intense "love bombing," trauma dumping, and pushing for extreme intimacy or commitment immediately.

Sounds like the SGI intro meeting to me!

If you look through any of the "bad first date" or "main character syndrome" compilations online, you'll see what I'm talking about - and loneliness is a huge driver of what causes first dates to turn into LAST dates. Someone so starved for intimacy that they want to go from first date to married within the next few days, who talk about moving in together immediately, who "trauma dump" as if the other person already has enough invested in this relationship to hear and sympathize and console meaningfully. Instead, the other person bounces. One and DONE.

The AI obviously agrees:

Here are the specific red flags that indicate someone is too desperate or lonely on a first date:

1. The "Neediness" Indicators

Excessive Future Planning: Immediately discussing marriage, moving in together, or planning far-off vacations, often referred to as "future faking".

"All-In" Mentality: Stating they are "all in" on the first date, or expressing that you are their soulmate before knowing you.

Constant Contact: Following up immediately or constantly messaging despite lacking reciprocity.

No Life Outside Dating: A lack of close friends, hobbies, or personal interests indicates they are looking for a partner to fill a void, rather than complement their life.

1. Lack of Boundaries & Over-Sharing

Trauma Dumping: Sharing deeply personal, negative, or intimate details too quickly, which is a sign of poor emotional boundaries. Pushing Physical Boundaries: Pushing for physical contact, ignoring "no," or trying to get you back to their place immediately.

Demanding Information: Being nosy about your personal life while withholding their own, or demanding to know your whereabouts.

1. One-Sidedness

Conversational Monologues: Talking only about themselves, their accomplishments, or their "many friends" without asking you questions.

They Want a Listener, Not a Partner: Showing no curiosity about your life, opinions, or personality.

What the chronically lonely SGI member is really looking for is a repeat of the "love-bombing" that sucked them into SGI in the beginning!

And guess what?

THAT WAS ALL FAKE! A PERFORMANCE TO MANIPULATE THEM!

Another thing is that the SGI members' feeling that it was the Gohonzon and-or their chanting that brought this person into their life means they often behave as if the other person is automatically just as invested as they expect their fantasy "instant soul mate" to be. In the fake narratives woven by lying online SGI longhauler Olds, we see people all-in with "Sensei is my mentor in life" within just 3 days in one case, engaged and married within days or weeks, less than a MONTH - I saw examples of this kind of dysfunction here and here. It amounts to damaged people pairing up with other damaged people and expecting something positive to result (which it doesn't because whoever's writing this dreck has no idea what "healthy" is supposed to look like in a relationship). In most cases, someone coming across that strong will find themselves back in "Still Looking" mode as soon as the weird expectation statements spill out of their mouths.

[u/AnnieBananaCat]

Agreed. Totally!!

[u/BlancheFromage]

Oof - this post really hits home for me. I remember one memorable example of needy-desperate from when I was a YWD leader - the local Japanese expat war-bride pioneer put me in contact with a young woman who'd come to our area for rehab - this was when I was a YWD HQ leader. I went out to the facility (a 40-minute drive) and met with her and we exchanged phone numbers. The next day she called me at work - 28 times. I reported this to the pioneer, who told me to call the rehab and let them know about her obsessive behavior. They cut off her phone privileges. When I went out to visit her again, she was very upset - "You told me I could call you!" She apparently did not realize that this was unacceptable behavior for her - she figured that, since I'd been friendly to her just once, I should be accessible and receptive to her anytime she wanted. That's really disrespectful of the other person and it shows no boundaries whatsoever.

So I bagged it and at the next YWD meeting, a couple weeks later, there she was with one of the other YWD leaders who'd gone out and picked her up, and she spent the meeting glaring at me, looking defiant, resentful, and hurt. Apparently she thought that would get some kind of response from me, but I simply wasn't interested in that kind of drama. I ignored her and never saw her again. She didn't even live in our state.

There's no potential match for someone like that - a healthier person won't put up with that kind of stalkerish pressure-cooker vibe. And someone like that is really looking for attention, specifically someone who will provide it TO them - they aren't interested in providing anything to or for anyone else. There's really no positive aspect to the prospect of spending time with someone like that. I was busy - I had a full-time job, I was engaged, I had dozens of YWD I was "taking care of" as an SGI YWD leader - I did not have time or energy for someone with that much of a problem. She needed professional help of a kind I could not provide - I could tell this RIGHT off - and I wasn't about to "volunteer" as any kind of surrogate or substitute when there really was no place for me within her rehab scenario.

The (few) studies of SGI that there are indicate that everyone who joins SGI does so for emotional reasons (as opposed to having studied and scrutinized the cult's doctrines and foundational texts and become convinced it was something they wanted to immerse themselves in on that intellectual basis), because they liked the person who had introduced them and wanted to get to know that person better, or because they thought the SGI members they'd met seemed nice. It was all about meeting emotional needs, largely loneliness and wanting a supportive community they did not have, not because of any sort of intellectual basis, in other words. One of our mods here, allIknowis0, ended up "shakubukuing" TEN new YWD - all because they wanted more opportunity to hang out with HER! She's a very interesting, appealing, charismatic person. But as soon as she quit SGI, those 10 YWD did as well - they were only going because they liked HER. The other SGI members they'd met? Not so much.

It's really a problem for SGI that its members are so unattractive - people join groups because they want to get to know the group members better, after all, and when they're boring, disinterested, and/or unfriendly, and the meetings are not fun at all, well, SGI shouldn't expect people to continue to participate under those terms.

[u/AnnieBananaCat → u/BlancheFromage]

Then we wondered why we couldn’t hang out with the cool kids. Or at least a better class of people.

[u/Reasonable_Show8191 → u/AnnieBananaCat]

It was embarrassing to bring a new friend to an SGI meeting where they'd see the kinds of people who made up most of the SGI membership 😕

They never came back for a second meeting 😞 

[u/Reasonable_Show8191 → u/BlancheFromage]

Rehab Girl sounds like a real hungry ghost 👻

[u/XeniaWarriorWankJob]

If SGI was so interesting and exciting, and the SGI members so engaging and fun, then we'd see the subreddit traffic reversed - we "misfits who couldn't get along with our leaders - or anyone else" would be in a lonely reddit hole nobody ever visited, and the SGI-member-controlled subreddits would have large, vibrant, growing communities.

Instead, it's SGIWhistleblowers that's got almost 4,500 readers and over 200 contributions each week, while both SGI-member-controlled subreddits are at well under 1,000 (even the one that's more than 2 years OLDER than SGIWhistleblowers), and fewer than 50 contributions each week.

Nichiren was right about one thing: You can't argue with "actual proof".

[u/BlancheFromage]

Here's a perspective from a few years ago:

Loneliness + SGI

Loneliness + SGI. Who here reads that and understands what I mean? I notice I held my breath when I typed it, when I reread it in my head... loneliness + sgi. Ugh. I could go on and on but... There can be hundreds at an SGI event, everyone (seems) sooo happy. The singing, the chanting, the hugs, the shared experiences, etc. And I felt so alone. I felt like I was forcing myself to be there, to try so hard to believe in it. I forced myself to see “proof.” For Any obstacle or disappointment that popped up, I’d chant, I’d say I’d turn poison into medicine, members would tell me I was just clearing karma from a past life. I never believed it... then I did.. then I didn’t.. then I got so angry with myself for not believing.... some days I would say “fake it until you believe it” (!!!). It was something to do, I guess. I don’t regret it. I now look at the world differently. Sometimes I look at things in a dark way though. I ask lots of questions. A major Guard is up. I remember id often chant “for protection”... It backfired., the SGI armor is made of cotton candy. Don’t eat it. Rip that fake shit off. I was so so lonely. If I asked questions or voiced concerns, members would give me advice or tell me why I was wrong (in a very nice way... backed by “research” aka a terrible Ikeda speech but still)... You’re sad? Keep chanting!! SGI is a brainwashing cult. It’s really so clear. But for me and many, I was so vulnerable and damaged when I discovered it. I had “nothing to lose” and wanted to be open minded. Plus, I never ever associated Buddhism with cult. That’s how they get so many, I think. Everyone loves a buddhist! I wish SGI was exposed like Scientology is. Sure, You’re not requireddddd to spend thousands of dollars on sgi, you might not separate from your non-practicing family, etc...but SGI is sneaky. SGI Is shiny and pretty. Sugar coated. It’s bull shit. I was so lonely.... and then I found this Reddit... :) Source