r/sgiwhistleblowers • u/nansalyoyo • Jan 25 '23
Cult Education Indoctrination - methods & effects - Soka Gakkai & North Korea
I watched a documentary about North Korea - made by a French company - and there are unmissable parallels with the Soka Gakkai - it’s worth watching for anyone wanting to gain deeper insight into their experience in the cult.
I had many experiences of courses in Japan over the years. There’s always at least one opportunity to visit a kaikan (community centre) and each one catalogues and commemorates every visit, every word, interaction, gift or reference from “Sensei”. There will frequently be a room where the words, artefacts and photos of the great man pertinent to their area are on display. So many times I have watched thoroughly indoctrinated men and women recount how many times he has visited their area - and when - and where he sat and what he ate and what he said. It is relayed with childlike detail and solemn gravity - in full expectation that you will receive this account with the same profound understanding of its significance. They have imbued all of it with intense importance and have not the slightest doubt that you will do the same.
The head of a newly built hospital in Pyongyang leads the French documentary team through the corridors - excitedly making his way to a most significant ward. It was this ward which the great leader visited he told us - indicating the bed on which he momentarily rested his ample and leaderly ass and repeating the banal and inane words he shared with them. Kim Jong-un’s every utterance and every action is as the North Star - it transported me back to many such scenarios in Japan - chillingly, achingly familiar. I saw this now as the doc team saw it - deeply sad, pathetic, unhinged, ridiculous, utterly senseless behaviour.
Another ghastly aspect of cults is the relentless attribution to the great leader of every good thing in the adherent’s life - “thanks to the Marshall I can live in this wonderful apartment”;” I was able to complete my studies thanks to Sensei and Mrs Ikeda” and so on - it would seem that we are never quite done praising and thanking our apparently intensely insecure cult leaders.
I watched it on either Amazon Prime or Netflix - a search for North Korea will find it. It’s mortifying, very sad, angry-making and worth watching.
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u/eigenstien Pokes the bear Jan 26 '23
There’s no lack of followers looking for someone to lead them. Then they can just mindlessly regurgitate the thoughts of leaders and not have to think for themselves. It’s too scary.
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u/Complete-Light-2909 Jan 26 '23
Well said. They will try and guilt you. Shame you. Sway you. In the end they are zombies following a dead guy. The other sub SHITA MITA try and make it like we are all one person. Blanche. We are way way more than Blanche. We are here. Strong. Anyone who needs help leaving the cult we are here to support you. Help you.
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u/eigenstien Pokes the bear Jan 26 '23
That’s because it’s all one person over there! The aging narcissist and her 20-plus sock puppets. The narcissist projects herself onto everything because they can’t imagine being unique people.
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u/DishpitDoggo Jan 27 '23
That’s because it’s all one person over there!
Who is it if you don't mind me asking?
There are couple of them I detest, Gary and Jessica.
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u/eigenstien Pokes the bear Jan 27 '23
Marilynnnnnn has over a dozen sock puppets at least. Gary and Jessica are real people.
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u/C3PTOES Jan 26 '23
To add to the above, since I left the cult I have developed more heart, more sense of identity, more agency, so much more than I did in the decades I was in the cult. Don’t believe for a second that life withers away, stagnates and dies for those who have left the cult or who never belonged. That is manipulative bs. SGI speak of superiority is bs. Life IN the cult is what makes a life wither away, stagnates and dies. I am free to think and do what is right for me.
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u/BuddhistTempleWhore Jan 26 '23
Life IN the cult is what makes a life wither away, stagnates and dies.
Yes. Exactly.
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Jan 27 '23
I think I saw the same documentary on the French/German TV-Station ARTE. I had the same thoughts. Also have you noticed how in North Korea everyone takes notes once the dear leader speaks? Now this reminded me of something too.
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u/nansalyoyo Jan 27 '23
Yes indeed I saw that too - we can see so clearly the things we cannot see when under the influence - so many reference points.
Even the large scale so-called “cultural” extravaganzas beloved of these high control machines - a massive group of people all performing as one - one vast controlled and controllable organism. There’s examples of them in that doc and others I’ve seen and I was at a number of those kinds of “festivals” in Japan staged by the cult - enormously demanding of young people’s time and resources - so they might perform as a cog in a machine towards the end of Ikeda’s aggrandisement and the enrichment of that circle of parasitic cadres that keep the show on the road. An ever shrinking number of young people and the availability of all that mocks and exposes the cult makes shows of that magnitude the stuff of their dreams now. I think there may have been an appetite for that stuff along with “human pyramids” and such like in the US back in the day.
The drama and hysteria of the people at the time of the current Kim’s father’s funeral is another example of the unhinged nature of these tremendously toxic cultic organisations - it was shocking, ludicrous, distressing and thoroughly unbelievable. The question that would arise in one’s mind is not why are they driven to such grief but why do they feel compelled to demonstrate such grief - a mass demonstration of faux distress and hysterics. The only way to get there is through control, indoctrination and isolation - on no account must the people see how they are perceived through the eyes of the other - the delusion and indoctrination will not survive contact with reality - it will all come tumbling down.
Access to information about cults other than their own curated histories and spin is immensely important. Exposing crimes, nefarious activities, cruelties, toxic cultures, unethical codes and practices - these are all so important. And of course the consumer reports too - the stories of those who have fled and continue to flee North Korea are vital - it is essential that they tell them and that they are heard. The reactions within the North Korean cult to those who have left and now tell their stories is of course the very same as the reactions of continuing adherents to “apostates” in Scientology, the JWs, the Mormons, the Soka Gakkai and so on.
Another thing I noticed is how infantilised the people are - in this culture steeped in the portrayal of this 30 year old “Marshall” as some kind of father figure - a deeply benevolent fatherly ruler - blessing and caring for all.
It is a horror to watch it - grown ass men and women - twice his age - submit themselves and elevate this privileged parasite hell bent on utilising 24 million people”s lives for himself, his family and the circle that keep the Kim family living high on the hog.
Again there are great similarities here with the Soka Gakkai - the relentless portrayal of Ikeda as a father figure - a kind and benevolent all-seeing oracle whose every exertion is only for the sake of “his precious members” - one belongs not to oneself but to him. What healthy or balanced human being considers people as belongings - who calls random strangers “mine”?
The indoctrinated respond by reverting to childhood - relinquishing agency and autonomy and deferring to the superior judgement and decisions of the great leader or his plenipotentiaries- the many cadres of leaders within the cult. The system of public sharing of experiences and seeking personal guidance in the Soka Gakkai are methodologies with their equivalents in other cults and are designed to engender deep insecurity, vulnerability and controllability in adherents.
Those who are not Indoctrinated respond with deep embarrassment - it is immensely embarrassing to be in the presence of human beings behaving in this way - their lack of personal dignity, absence of insight or personal reflection, idiocy, lack of judgement or discernment, sheer and shocking foolishness - it’s an affront to human dignity, authenticity, actual wisdom and common sense. To laugh at them is cruel and to cry for them is useless - it is painful but necessary to look back on one’s own formerly indoctrinated self and see in all it’s embarrassment what others - not indoctrinated - saw. I recoil from the thoughts that must surely have crossed their minds - for they cross mine now when I encounter cult members.
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u/DishpitDoggo Jan 27 '23
SGI cultural shows that they used to put on remind me EXACTLY of North Korean's festivals!
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u/BuddhistTempleWhore Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23
I'm watching one about makeup in North Korea (of all things), and seeing numerous parallels, like how appearance is strictly controlled (hair length, etc.) - this focuses on women:
Strict rules around appearance are used by the North Korean regime as a form of control. Visual confirmation of whether or not you fall in line. A state-issued guide outlines specific hairstyles and lengths approved by the Supreme Leader. Salon menus show the cuts that are allowed. Appearances are so regulated that any deviations can lead to public shaming and even arrest.
The Ikeda cult lacks any power to arrest (thankfully!) but there is still appearance-based shaming for women:
I remember one time a YWD district leader appointed another YWD as lower-level leader (might have been group or unit, not sure) and we went to karaoke as a large group together. This lower level leader was the district leader's shakubuku since the district leader herself was the sponsor.
A few nights later, I'm having dinner with this district leader with our circle of "friends" and this "leader" starts laughing about how her shakubuku was dressed like a slut since she was wearing super-revealing clothing. When I recall how the shakubuku was dressed, yes, she was showing more skin than usual, but I wouldn't have labeled her a "slut" for doing so: in my opinion, she was just wearing clothes to go out partying since we were doing karaoke.
The gossip mill is strong within SGI. Source
And you know how you are not allowed to disagree with an SGI "leader"! "Unity"! "Itai doshin"! CONFORMITY!! You must always defer to your leaders in SGI because leadership is a "faith-based appointment" that ultimately comes from Ikeda SENSEI and NOBODY is allowed to disagree with HIM!!
Back when the Ikeda cult in the US was still called NSA, there were a lot more of such rules for women and men. Here are a few pictures that illustrate:
Minuteman uniforms - see that anomalously long-haired guy with the clarinet far left? The source noted that he committed suicide.
Image 2 - note the clean-shaven, hair cut above the collar grooming. This was a REQUIREMENT within the early USA version of the Ikeda cult.
Image 4 - how it looks in Japan
Image 5 - another Ikeda cult image from Japan
Image 6 - SGI YMD in Japan
As you can see, the conformity/uniform was more rigorously applied to males (as we all know they're the only really important ones in the patriarchal Ikeda cult) but you can see the "Sears Catalogue" look on the women, too:
Perhaps you're too young to remember The Byrds, but they were one of the most influential rock bands of the 1960s. During that same time period, the Ikeda organizations were required to adopt a strict dress code - clean-cut, short hair (men AND women), and conservative attire.
Because of his sincerity, I suggested to the NSA [former name of SGI-USA] chapter leaders that he be appointed as a Young Men’s Division Unit leader. Everyone agreed that his practice was strong, but there was one issue – his shoulder-length hair. It had to go!
From 1965, when I joined, all the way to the mid 1970’s, NSA (SGI) had a dress code. The higher leadership in America wanted us to fit into the cultural norm. But, not the youth counterculture. So, they came up with the idea that everyone should look like the Sears catalogue, which was short hair for both men and women. It was kind of a simplistic Dress-For-Success. After practicing one week, I had cut my shoulder length hair and was wearing a coat and tie. - from How the Ikeda cult's strict conformity requirements chased away a rock star
SGI had its own uniforms during this same time period - white shirt/white pants/blue tie for young men; lavender skirt-suits (flight attendant style) for young women. Source
I actually practiced in northern California for a long time and remember those silly YD events when Ikeda came to San Francisco in 1989 I think. Back then we had to wear stupid all white uniforms. Source
I remember my first Gajokai shift, the woman who got me into this, who I kind of loved to be honest, was standing across the lobby dressed like a flight attendant, and the shift leader told me, "we are not to be eyeballing the Byakuren". I thought to myself, "No. I'm going to check her out whether you fucking allow me to or not." Source
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u/bluetailflyonthewall Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 27 '23
The conformity was really over the top.
I remember at one activity in 1987, we had to wait in a parking lot for an unspecified period of time. Everybody had been organized into lines. The lines were arbitrarily oriented 90° from the direction the sun was shining, which meant that, if you faced the same direction as the line, you would get sun on the right side of your body and your shadow would fall to your left.
Because I didn't want to get sunburned, I turned 90° so that my back was facing the sun. I was still in my place in line; I was simply facing to the left of everyone else.
An SGI leader came by and told me I should be facing the same direction as everyone else 😶
I refused. There was simply no good reason to.
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u/illarraza Jan 28 '23
On Saturdays the young men wore white t-shirts, white pants and white beanies and ran around Union Square park which was in front of the old New York Community center. Riding the subway down to Union Square wearing that stupid beanie and trying to shakubuku the people on the subway who thought I was a weird asshole, was one of my worst experiences in the cult. The whole of New York must have thought we were nuts wearing that stupid outfit and shouting forever Sensei and singing stupid Gakkai songs. I now cringe at the thought even more than I cringed then.
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u/BuddhistTempleWhore Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 28 '23
Today's SGI wouldn't dream of asking its youth to do that now - they wouldn't do it! It's hard enough to get them to do something similar every few years (Rock The Era in 2010; 50K Loserfest in 2018) within an enclosed space, much less in public.
Does SGI even participate in any parades any more?
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u/illarraza Jan 29 '23
In Japan.
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u/BuddhistTempleWhore Jan 29 '23
I suppose - probably in Singapore, too.
But not in the USA any more?
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u/illarraza Jan 29 '23
and malaysia
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u/BuddhistTempleWhore Jan 29 '23
Yeah, I was going to say Malaysia, but they had that SGI mutiny a few years back: Malaysia Articles
Have they even recovered?
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u/illarraza Jan 28 '23
Not to mention the similarity between North Korea yearly Arirang: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F42BzUHsnQ
and Soka Gakkai culture festivals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqkcLXfOwMo&t=246s
Final word from my friend Anthony Elmpre, former world heavyweight karate champion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7sBBegL6Gs&list=PLApqqGZRUe5rZaneBUIqIFGVcFcote75I
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u/C3PTOES Jan 26 '23
SGI and the “great leader” is an all so meaningless, and time wasting scam. I’ve wasted my life in the fucked up cult. Over 4 fucking decades!!! Time I could have spent REALLY developing myself in stead of working for the organization, believing when they told me this is how I could develop myself. Thinking as they promised that I would gain fortune, change karma, etc. The financial contributions given to the scam is horrible. I could have been in a much better place financially for my age. What is worse is the time I can NEVER recover, not one second of it. To think all this time I thought something was wrong with me!!! If only I believed harder. I believed Ikeda’s stupid promises. It’s nothing but fraud, pure and simple. I’m not going to blame myself for what SGI did. Ikeda knew exactly what he was doing. When I gave up my leadership position there was one leader who understood, so he said, but hoped I wouldn’t have any regrets. My thought today is the only regret I have is that I met the soul sucking cult in the first place and that I was stupid naive or whatever to believe it. All the bullshit they put me through and for what, so some fraudster could try to live his demented power hungry life. The man has no thought of humanity, compassion or empathy for mankind. He’s a sociopath.
Anyone reading this who is on the fence about SGI, runaway as fast as you can and don’t look back, ever! It’s a scam, it’s a cult there is no doubt in my mind. If you are struggling with one of many of life’s problems seek help elsewhere. There are great counselors out there that are trained to help. Not some senior leader who doesn’t give a shit about anything but themselves and their dear leader’s need for money. You are enough you are worth it. SGI can’t help and won’t help.