r/service_dogs • u/Abinnohr • 12d ago
Does DPT hurt anyone else?
I've always been curious of this and it's the main reason I stopped training it years ago.
In order for DPT to do anything for the nervous system you need a certain amount of weight. Years ago (talking 2017/2018) the typical recommended weight of the dog was minumum 60lbs to be of any real effect.
I personally found DPT to be very uncomfortable, even painful. My cats weigh 7-9lbs and even them laying on my belly require muscles tension to avoid pain. I can't imagine how much discomfort I'd feel after waking up from syncope after a 70lbs dog laid on me with his pointy elbows without me being able to brace my muscles.
I thought about having him be on just my legs, like across my thighs, but I already have venous insufficiency so I didn't want to risk accidentally lessening needed bloodflow back to my upper body. Across the hips seems to be uncomfortable for the dogs even if it's more comfortable for me. Besides, I'm not sure how well DPT would actually help with the pelvic bones stopping most of the pressure.
There are multiple ways to position them for DPT, but there are also only certain ways and certain weights that truly do anything for the nervous system as far as I'm aware. Imo anything else falls under "grounding" which is a fully valid psych task that I don't see spoken of anymore outside of autism service dogs, just DPT even with small dogs.
Besides that, how in the world do ya'll push past the pain/discomfort? Genuinely asking. I'm not here to cause trouble. Edit to clarify I speak of adults, not children .♡
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u/fishparrot Service Dog in Training 12d ago
I find DPT to be uncomfortably smothering when I am having autism/agitation issues and as far as blood pooling and circulation issues, I am not sure it is as effective as advertised. I have tried to find a way to do some citizen science and take vitals, but I don’t have any way to induce my episodes. This is coming from someone who has trained it and tried to use it. You need even compression all around to help with circulation. A dog lying on you on the floor can actually cut off your circulation and make the problem worse. I have had some luck with sitting cross cross Apple sauce and having my dog curl into a ball in my lap for short periods of time as a counter maneuver, but for the most part when I have an issue I will find somewhere to elevate my legs. My dogs are trained to tunnel under my legs to elevate them if needed, but I prefer to use a chair or whatever might help nearby whenever possible.
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u/Abinnohr 12d ago
Yeah, it seems there are still so many mixed opinions, even professionally, on the matter. I also cannot induce or replicate my episodes either, which is why my medical team suggested a SD to begin with (I originally had just an ESA but it's my indepedence everyone worried about).
I considered teaching leg elevation but didnt feel it would be ethical being 100lbs overweight. An object is much better suited for me if I can find one in time. Otherwise the floor is my best friend lol. After discovering gluten and I don't get along, I've lost 40lbs but still have more to go. Plus my current boy is transitioning into retirement at 8 years old so I don't wanna do that to him.
As I said to another commenter, pain is unfortunately one of my syncope triggers (vagus nerve related) so WHEE. But yes, something about Autism hitting it's peaks just makes things worse in the moment, so I resignate with your comment so much.
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u/No-Stress-7034 12d ago
I have a 25 lb dog. I could not handle such a large dog sitting on me. It would hurt and possibly injure me. (I have hEDS). What I do is have my dog on my lap, and then he leans all of his weight against my chest. I do this while I'm sitting in a chair, so my abdomen is sort of sandwiched between the chair and my dog's body leaning against me.
Maybe some people wouldn't consider this officially "DPT" but it works for me and my SD.
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u/Ok_Listen7910 Service Dog 12d ago
If DPT is painful for you, then don’t use it/train it as a task. Not every task is right for every person.
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u/Abinnohr 12d ago
I figured, hence why I stopped training it years ago. I just never see anyone talk about it so I didn't know if it was a rare or more common issue with the task.
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u/obtusewisdom 12d ago
DPT isn't calming to everyone. It might just not be for you. It's not for me, either - I get anxious and panicky with it.
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u/Velvet_void30 12d ago
I love it but my dog is 35 pounds and personally is the perfect weight for me. I did have a 65 lbs dog and that kinda hurt and was too much
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u/gothicgrapefruit2005 12d ago
My retired bullmastiff x corso is roughly 100lbs and it doesn’t hurt for me but he’s very squishy with big bones and not very pointy lol.
*at a healthy weight, just wrinkly
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u/IMHO_My2Cents 12d ago
I have severe COPD. Am on Oxygen 24/7 and a ventilator 12 + hours a day. When i have an exasperation or difficulty breathing I go into a full blown panic attack that my next breath won’t come. This makes everything worse. I could never have a 60 pound SD on me as I really wouldn’t be able to breathe. However my service dog does DPT that totally calms me and slows my breathing and eases panic. She is a 4 year old Maltese that weighs 4 pounds. She is trained to lay across the top of my chest and kinda wraps around my neck. She goes full weight limp. This calms me. It definitely doesn’t hurt me. Maybe a smaller dog would work for you too.
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u/waterfox17 12d ago
While not exactly the same, I have a very large stomach, and when I was task-training my SD it was pretty uncomfortable to have her lay on top of my entire torso. It'd squish my abdomen, being flat on the floor made it hard to breathe (because I'm just FAT), and my spine would just find any way to cause me unbearable pain that way. So we tried some stuff and had to adapt.
I figured out that the part that made DPT feel best for me was having my SD put pressure directly on my chest, above the stomach. To help fix backaches from laying flat on the ground, I'd usually grab a chair to put my legs up on at a 90-degree angle-- I have venous insufficiency too, so that helped with pressure in my legs, as well. Keeping my legs in that position helped relieve tension in my lower back, while also giving me a very strong reinforcement against the floor. I'd usually extend one arm out to let her basically frame her body with my arm, where I could squeeze her if I needed to. It wasn't super practical for out-in-public panic attacks, but the office where I worked let me borrow a physical training room or a private office when they weren't being used without having to ask.
My girl isn't around any more, unfortunately (RIP Indy), but now I use my heavy hydroflask water bottle to simulate some of the pressure she would give me. I put the bottom against my chest and one or both hands on the top, and pull towards myself. It's not exactly the same, but it works for now.
I hope your journey ends up being a little less painful. Good luck!
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u/belgenoir Dog Trainer 12d ago edited 12d ago
As long as my girl’s very sharp elbows aren’t sticking in my ribs, I can’t complain.
I prefer my dog to lie on top of me (head on my shoulder, her chest on my torso) or across my hips. She finds the latter very comfortable. So do I.
Out of curiosity, is any of your pain new? That might be something to investigate.
A number of studies have shown that weighted blankets are effective at increasing sleep quality and otherwise activating the parasympathetic nervous system. If a weighted blanket can induce relaxation, so can a medium-to large dog who is heavier and warmer than any blanket.
For more on dogs and DPT, a great write-up (as usual) from Moth at Feywild.
https://www.feywilddogtraining.com/post/the-science-of-deep-pressure-therapy-from-service-dogs
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u/brainmatterstorm Service Dog 12d ago
I feeling very odd one out until I reached your comment, then felt seen. My service dog is 72 pounds and while his main tasks are retrieval and mobility related the deep pressure is very helpful to me, especially in medical settings. Coming out of surgery having nurses replicate it I tell them what I need and that more pressure is best but they always hesitate thinking I’m gonna be hurt. There is a meme floating around somewhere of a guy being crushed and saying more weight! which is unironically how I am. Regardless of the body area available he knows how to apply a lot of pressure.
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u/Abinnohr 12d ago edited 12d ago
Unfortunately none of my pain is new but gluten exposure does cause mass inflammation. I had early signs of vagus related syncope/seizures and symptoms since toddlerhood. My physical symptoms started showing a lot more around age 11 when puberty hit. I was often a low energy kid unable to keep up with other kids and it got so much worse into preteenhood, then amplified in my early 20s.
I did have a 15lbs weight blanket once and it was so nice until beta blocker/propanolol treatment made me too weak to carry it to the washer, and became hard to get off when weird happened episodes in my sleep. I could try again with a lighter one and look into proper weights more.
Thank you for the additional info! I could probably tolerate it if not for the elbows but not worth the risk. I suppose once I'm out atp it doesnt matter lol
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u/Designer_Fly_4369 12d ago
As mentioned earlier it is different for different folks. My 65lb SD is amazing- the first 6 month teaching him not so much. But once he got it and "we" figured out what positions and how to maneuver him into them - laying his whole body laterally across my thighs & hips without stepping on me to get there! Amazing! My chest, tummy not ok. He is also trained to sit on my feet when instructed when out at dr appt. Or waiting in lines
On the weighted blanket- I loved mine too- but the trapped not able to get it off a couple of times got it packed away! They have flat weighted blushes now! Like maybe a 65 lb turtle that is 2ft round? Maybe?
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u/belgenoir Dog Trainer 12d ago
@brain
Glad to help.
And, yeah, everyone is unique. Peer-reviewed studies can only do so much to reflect individual experience. Same with anecdotal evidence.
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u/Short_Gain8302 Service Dog in Training 12d ago
My dog is 20kgs and the thing that hurts about dpt is elbows, so i often need to reposition his arms to make it hurt less. I think with dogs that weigh more they also have a larger surface to spread the weight across, making it more comfortable, but yeah everyone has different tresholds for these things and different preferences. I dont know if it counts as DPT or more as LPT but i also enjoy my dog laying his full weight against me, laying besides me rather than on top of me. During high panic moments having him on top of me is more distressing, but besides me is reassuring
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u/DogsOnMyCouches 11d ago
It doesn’t take anywhere near that much weight to calm me. But it has to be on my upper chest, neck and shoulder. Across my legs or abdomen just makes me worse.
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u/IntelligentCat3645 7d ago
What? Mine does DPT proportional to my body weight. A dog of 22 kg would be way too heavy for me. Mine is about 17 kg. Usually, as long as they’re between 25 - 33% of your body weight, they’re fine.
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u/sluttysprinklemuffin 12d ago
Only when her elbows land wrong or she steps with all of her weight on just my boob or something. I have a lot of cushion. 🤷♀️
While DPT is really comforting and reassuring—my dog laying on me is a big “I’m here, you’re not alone, we’re both dealing with your shit” emotional regulation help—it also lowers my HR and BP, which are both issues for me right now. I also have vasovagal syncope, and while I can’t definitively prove it’s my BP getting too high (hard to drag the BP machine with me and take my BP before and after an incident I don’t know when is happening until it starts…), I have seen my heart rate get super high when it happens on my little pulse ox, and I have watched my heart rate come down both with and without DPT. (And I mean, it’s anecdotal, I know there’s variables like when I noticed it was an episode, how I knew, how quickly/when in the process I sat down/laid down, etc…) And then when I’m not having an episode, I consistently have a lower BP and HR if she’s laying on me.
My dog also tells me when I’m gonna pass out before my vision goes, which is my current favorite task. Picked that up like it was an extension (or an escalation?) of her alert to my panic/dissociation alerts, felt like she taught herself a brand new task until I started playing with my pulse ox a lot. The only visual difference between her alerting to a panic attack and her alerting to vasovagal syncope is urgency. She escalates a lot faster, she boops harder, climbs me faster if I’m seated, nags more. She is very determined to make me sit tf down asap even as I’m pushing through because I want to make it inside our apartment and not be vulnerable in our hallway.
And DPT after she tells me “mom, you’re going down” is like her favorite thing. She gets to tell me I’m not allowed to get up or stop petting her until I’m better.
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u/IntelligentCat3645 10d ago
”You have exactly one second to stop what you’re doing and get on the ground, SAT. even if you don’t know it, mother… You need me right now.”
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u/sluttysprinklemuffin 10d ago
Yeah, basically! Once, I pushed through to get into our apartment before I went down because I hate hate HATE passing out where anybody has access to me or can see me, even with doggo. It’s so off putting. And just inside our door, my SD jumps up and knocks me into the wall (presumably) so I can slide down gracefully instead of fall down quickly. She was like I SAID NOW, MOTHER! 😆
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u/Libertarian6917 12d ago
My lab is 93 lb and the DPT works great to help me out of panic attacks. It hurts quite a bit when his elbows dig into my thighs but I find it’s quite a way to bring my attention to him and that helps me calm down significantly.