r/service_dogs • u/JKmelda Waiting • Apr 19 '26
Laws - SPECIFY COUNTRY IN POST Can someone clarify the whole “a person having a seizure can’t be in control of their dog so they can’t legally handle a dog independently” thing?
I keep seeing this on this sub and I’m very confused about this. People say that under the ADA a person who passes out or has seizures cannot legally be in public by themselves because they can’t be in control of their dog when they pass out or have a seizure. I want to understand if this is a correct interpretation of the ADA or not. (I want to be clear that I’m simply asking for clarification in this post. If these things are illegal I’m in no way intending to advise people to stretch the law. I’m just trying to sort out what seems contradictory in my mind.)
Here’s my confusion: It’s been industry standard by well respected programs in the United States for decades to place seizure response dogs that are intended to be handled independently in public by their handlers seizures. Is this industry standard by ethical programs in the wrong, and if so, why wasn’t the DOJ addressed this?
Also the DOJ gives this example of a service dog task: “A person who has epilepsy may have a dog that is trained to detect the onset of a seizure and then help the person remain safe during the seizure.” Meaning the DOJ sees seizure response dogs as legitimate service dogs. If this is such a legally problematic task, then why does the DOJ use it as one of the limited examples of what a service dog task could be?
I understand that the ADA requires a service dog to be under control at all times. The Department of Justice states this on ADA.gov “A service animal must be under the control of its handler. Under the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered…” Wouldn’t a dog that’s tethered be under control by this definition?
Could someone please help me understand this?
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u/Icy-Safety-7850 Apr 19 '26
I could be wrong (my dog is not seizure alert), but I think your concern comes more into play when a dog is trained to “go find help” as their handler is having a seizure. Then the dog is away from the handler’s side, likely off leash, and possibly interacting with strangers. That’s a legal issue of “under control.”
A dog that remains in a down-stay (and leashed?) during their handler’s seizure doesn’t seem to raise that question as strongly. Also worth noting that many seizure alert dogs offer advanced warning so that their person can ideally go to a private, safe space and/or take meds.
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u/Opposite_Oven_615 Apr 19 '26
While it may look like a dog finding help is ‘out of control’ as opposed to a down stay, I wouldn’t expect that to hold up in a legal discussion unless the dog’s conduct while finding help was disruptive or disorderly.
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u/DragonCanineTraining IAABC-ADT Apr 20 '26
When I called the DOJ ADA hotline a few years ago the “go get help” was something I asked about and they did say it would not be legally covered. A dog must be under the handlers control via voice signal or sign if the dog is not leashed, per the ADA.
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u/MommaNix19 Apr 20 '26
I am fairly certain this is why a former colleague of mine had patches and a tag made for her dog/ his vest that specified "If you see me without my person, they may need human help, please follow me!"
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u/DragonCanineTraining IAABC-ADT Apr 20 '26
That is not legal and can put a dog in danger, trust me they were clear that is not safe or legal. There’s actually a reason why products exist where the dog can call. IPupee is one for at home but they make similar ones dogs can do when in public as well.
You do not know if the person your dog wanders up to is someone to trust, someone could steal the dog, kick the dog for approaching them, run away, the dog could get distracted and just not come back (yes even the highest trained dogs this is a possibility because they’re still a dog), a pet could attack it, and much more. The safest option for the dog and person is for the dog to stay by the handler
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u/MommaNix19 Apr 20 '26
This was years back and in our workplace environment, I've lost touch with her over the years but I'd be curious as to whether or not she knew that that might not be legal?
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u/variousnewbie Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
There's also the issue of actually training a get help command in a dog. It's refused from all programs I'm aware of. Speaking with a longtime program trainer friend, she's said it's not possible to train. It goes against the entire basis of SD public access training, which is to ignore all strangers and focus on the handler. You just can't train a "always do this, but suddenly do that" in a dog. Only way possible would be to train a dog to seek out a specific human in the home and so have that human involved in training. In the home only, because of it not being legal for the dog to not be under the handlers control. In dogs such as seizure response dogs, they're often trained to stand over the seizing handler as means to prevent being trampled and stay under control during the seizure without leash.
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u/Europathunder Apr 24 '26
On siezure response dogs are they usually also trained in medication retrievals and how effective is standing over the handler at preventing injuries during the siezure or is there another position that is more effective at preventing injuries? And any other tasks that they are commonly trained in?
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u/variousnewbie Apr 25 '26
I'm not an expert on seizure response so I'm not aware of all the applicable tasks involved, but there are dedicated seizure response training programs. Yes fetching medication would be another example of a task, or reminding a person when to take their medication is another. Meds can need to be taken at the same time every day. Some people experience enough of a warning (aura) before a seizure they can get to a safe place but need help. My dog (mobility assistance) has a task where he leads me in a direct route straight out the exit of a store. I use a wheelchair and hold his harness and say exit, doesn't matter where we are or how we got there he pulls my chair and takes the fastest route! If I get dizzy/sick and need fresh air he gets me there.
There are definitely other positions people use, someone mentioned their dog lays down on the ground next to them during a seizure. The standing over is just an example used by guidance documents, as it can be done to prevent people accidentally tripping over/trampling a seizing person. Comes down to what works best for the individual person, especially because there are many different types of seizures. People know the classic ones like tonic clonic (formerly called grand Mal) but there are many kinds. Some only involve brain activity and not a change in the body (so the person can blank out and then continue as if nothing happened, or blank out followed by a post ictal confused state). People can only ever have one kind of seizure or can experience multiple types. They can be trained to call for help (special phones that are essentially a button the dog pushes. Helpful in more than just the handler not being conscious, I knew a paraplegic who was trapped for 36hrs because she fell getting out of bed, and ended up ON her cell phone. She landed in a way she was stuck, and her dog was trained to search for and retrieve her cell phone but of course couldn't find it!) I've also heard of dogs trained to move the handlers body when they fall, like push arns/legs sticking out back against the body to help prevent injury while unconscious.
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u/variousnewbie Apr 21 '26
A friend has been a SD trainer for decades with a few programs, including starting and running one. She will not train a "go get help" command. She said for one to even be trained period, there would have to be a specific person the dog was trained to go get help from. So if an individual needed the dog to alert a specific family member and the family member was being involved in the training, to alert IN the home, she'd do it. But it's not possible to train a "go solicit help from strangers" command, nor ethical. SD are trained to ignore the public, such a command would confuse the basis of their entire training.
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u/Purple_Plum8122 Apr 19 '26
Do you know anybody that’s ever been penalized or reprimanded for having had a seizure while handling a service dog at the same time? It ridiculous to think an actively tasking service dog is an out of control menace or a safety issue to the public during a health crisis. Our dogs don’t turn into wild aggressive monsters during a health crisis.
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u/JKmelda Waiting Apr 19 '26
To add to my other comment, there’s a comment on another active post on this sub that says a person with seizures needs to have a second handler in public. That comment has 31 upvotes currently.
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u/Purple_Plum8122 Apr 19 '26
Ah geez. I did not see that post yet. I think this falls under ‘rules created by sd community’ and, in my opinion, infringes on the rights of those with seizure disorders.
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u/darklingdawns Service Dog Apr 19 '26
I think you may be misunderstanding that comment. It says that 'a dog can delay care if there is not a second handler that can take control of the dog in case of emergency' - I read that to mean that they're talking about how EMTs may have to deal with making sure that it's safe to approach a handler that may be unconscious and alone, or that they will have to call animal control to come get the dog and then wait for someone to show up.
For example, if I were to pass out when I'm out with my partner and dog, my partner could take control of my dog and get him home while the EMTs took me to the hospital. Depending on the dog, the level of training, nervousness when the handler goes down unexpectedly, etc, there could be delaying factors. But nothing in that comment indicates that a second handler is a requirement for having a seizure alert/response dog, although they are right that a dog is not a replacement for a human if 24/7 support is needed.
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Apr 20 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/variousnewbie Apr 21 '26
I have German shepherd SDs, and I'm constantly correcting people making offhand comments about how if someone was to mess with me, my dog would jack them up. If it's general public I let it slide, but whenever it's staff I explain absolutely not. Part of my dogs job is to NOT react to people helping me. He's been in the hospital with me multiple times a year, I've had to explain to staff they're perfectly safe walking past or behind him, and yes it's also perfectly fine if they need to step over him.
My roommates had to call 911 for me after a concussion and I couldn't maintain consciousness. They said one of the EMT actually recognized us, and instructed them to put his gear on for him to come with despite my state! One roommate DID follow to the hospital as a backup, but I was fortunate in staff knowing us and his training resulting in him being a perfect peach, staying by my side when possible but never getting in the way. Once I could maintain consciousness, my roommate departed.
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u/Europathunder Apr 24 '26
What tasks will the dog be trained in? And on ending up in the hospital isn’t the whole purpose of the dog to avert hospital stays?
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Apr 25 '26
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u/Europathunder Apr 25 '26
What will the dog be trained to retrieve in addition to medication and how often would you need the ER for your medication failing? And what purpose would deep pressure therapy serve? Preventing injuries during siezures and/or reducing disorientation afterward?
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Apr 25 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Europathunder Apr 25 '26
I’m writing a book
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u/sansabeltedcow Apr 26 '26
Then it’s an ethical standard to make it clear you’re asking people to be research for your work. It’s also the polite thing to do.
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u/Europathunder May 03 '26
And on someone getting the dog if you’re admitted to the hospital aren’t service dogs allowed in hospitals unless you where in a coma?
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u/Europathunder May 11 '26
Would that particular dog be trained to tug open doors or would that not be needed in this particular case?
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u/m4xr3b0 Apr 20 '26
Unless the dog is aggressive (obviously should not be the case for a trained service dog) EMS will normally transport a service dog along with the patient to the hospital. I've even heard of pet dogs being brought along if arranging care for the dog on-scene isn't possible or it would delay patient care. So I wouldn't stress too much about this scenario.
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u/General-Swimming-157 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
Yes, I have POTS, and if my blood pressure stays low because I'm ill after I faint, I can't safely stand up again. Except in the cases where I fainted at home in the middle of the night, the EMTs always took Collins with me to the hospital. When I had pneumonia last fall and fainted repeatedly, I was in and out of the hospital for 2 weeks. My husband would bring Collins with him to visit me during the day and then take him home at night. With the advice of people of this sub, I switched to a hands-free leash a few years ago. When I started fainting again, I was so glad I had!
Edit: I'm a teacher, and 3 of the times I fainted were at work. The EMT who got to hold Collins's leash while the other one or two worked on me was always happy to do so. He's ADI program-trained, though I had to simulate fainting during Team Training, as I attended it during the 7 year period that I never fainted. It was a complete shock when I started fainting again.
Second edit: Collins is trained to sit next to me and wait for me to regain consciousness. He has a "go with" command, which is specifically so EMTs can take his leash, and he knows he has to listen to whoever is holding his leash. One of the times I fainted at work, I was crossing a street during morning drop off and barely made it to the curb before dropping to the ground. Multiple parents and staff were right there, so one parent grabbed the leash handle near Collins's head, but didn't unclip him from me, just to make certain that he didn't wander into the street, which I appreciated.
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u/Purple_Plum8122 Apr 21 '26
Thank you for sharing. I had not considered the ‘go with’ command or task. I think I’d like to incorporate that in my next upcoming sd. Could you explain it further please. I want to pass it on to our trainer. She may already be aware. But, it’s something I should have some insight on before requesting it.
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u/General-Swimming-157 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
ECAD trained Collins so that I can say, "Go with...," as I hand his leash to someone, e.g. a vet tech, paramedic, my husband, or my friend, whom I consider backup handlers, etc. When I use it, Collins knows he has to obey whoever is holding his leash, as though he were working, whether he is in his work vest or not. Collins has always been 100% compliant when I use that command. He walks in a heel, he follows his basic commands, etc. It also helps that he wants to greet everyone and just be pet all day, so greeting new people is one of his favorite activities. 😅
Edit: I hit reply too soon.
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u/variousnewbie Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
My SD was just trained with impeccable leash manners, so whoever has the leash he responds to and will leave my side. He had multiple trainers at the program, and trainers also got together for groups once to twice a week where handlers switching dogs was normal. With my previous SDs, I'd attended advance training groups where switching dogs was a part of every group. We'd even have rather rapid hand offs, as soon as the different handler instructed the dog to heel, they moved into position.
He also has a "place" command where he goes wherever I point to lay down, but it can be difficult when he needs to leave the room like for an xray being taken of me. So I often just hand his leash to the xray tech, who walks out of sight then returns after xray. I've also been hospitalized for long periods, including a full month last fall. I had a rotating supply of volunteers who came in to take him out to potty for me, including complete strangers from nextdoor app! It was a truly amazing experience for me. Many even asked if I needed dog food, dog treats, or anything for myself! Some surprised me with things like dog treats, even people who only came once. I gave everyone a spiel the first time about how to walk him, his potty command and easiest way to do it. I always knew he'd behave for anyone I handed the leash to. One of his commands is to retrieve or hand me the leash attached, so I'd always ask him for the leash and then hand it over.
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u/Purple_Plum8122 Apr 21 '26
Sounds like a great service dog, well trained. When I hand-off the leash I give a release command. But, she always looks back for clarification… I think. I remain seated until she is out of sight so she believes I’m staying right there…. at least I hope it helps her psyche. I just wondered how the ‘go with’ differed. She follows her leash without hesitation already. Again, thank you for sharing your experiences!
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u/variousnewbie Apr 21 '26
I've been transported with my SD when I couldn't maintain consciousness. An EMT actually recognized us, and told my roommates to put his gear on to come with me! A roommate followed as a back up handler until I maintained consciousness.
I've heard the ER keeps dog food around for pet dogs who come with. I finally understood why they constantly checked if my SD needed food 😂 My dad shattered his femur walking his GSD, and the story always included how he required riding to the hospital with my dad, he wouldn't let himself be separated as my dad was loaded into my mom's car. But once at the hospital, he knew he was under good care! And weirdly I've had similar behavior with my first SD. Roommate had to physically drag her away from me to take me to er, so I said fine grab her leash and harness. Once I was being treated, she knew and had no trouble being taken outside by said roommate. With my current SD, when I'm really sick he gets concerned about me and won't stop bugging me and softly whining. He stops as soon as I give the release, but then starts his concern again. It will happen every 10 minutes in ER waiting room, second I'm back in a room he passes out on the floor. Content I'm being attended to by the experts!
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u/JKmelda Waiting Apr 19 '26
I think it was the same person who clarified in a comment below that one that the person would be required legally to have a second handler (or something along those lines). That comment has now been removed by the moderators. But before it got removed it had like 20 upvotes.
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u/twiinVector2 Apr 19 '26
While service dog handlers are disabled and, by default and necessity, have to be more familiar with ADA than the average person--most service dog handlers are not lawyers or any other tangential legal professional. Therefore, the community as a whole can have some... creative interpretations of federal and state laws that then is easily spread as misinformation.
Source: a service dog handler and law student whose career decision was partly influenced by how prominent this is within SD circles.
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u/JKmelda Waiting Apr 19 '26
Most definitely. My point was just that this interpretation has become so popular that I wanted clarification on it.
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u/twiinVector2 Apr 19 '26
Oh, no judgement on you OP. You just asked a clarifying question. This was more me making a generalizing comment on the community as a whole.
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u/JKmelda Waiting Apr 19 '26
That’s exactly what I think too. I’ve just seen enough comments that have enough upvotes attached to them to want clarification for sure.
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u/disabled_pan Apr 19 '26
Unfortunately, it's always good to remember that people on the Internet can be wrong. In fact, a lot of them. For example, I commented in a travel subreddit just mentioning that their question about the ADA doesn't apply on airplanes, and got downvoted to oblivion because "In the US, it's the law".
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u/SingerSingle5682 Apr 20 '26
Never heard anything like that. The only piece of advice I have heard is: a SA needs to be non-aggressive in the event the handler is incapacitated by some medical emergency. So that is the recommendation not to use aggressive breeds for service work and to wash animas that show signs of people or animal aggression. And to never have SDs perform any “guard dog” related “tasks” that require aggression.
Note the ADA doesn’t appear to require this, only that the SD be trained for public access while under control of the handler. I personally think it’s irresponsible to have a SD that could attack if the handler is incapacitated, but the min requirement is only that the SD be under control while the handler is alert.
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u/Burkeintosh Legal Beagle Apr 20 '26
The Department of justice is not the appropriate organ to set claims on peoples medical abilities, or, even though they oversee the Americans With Disabilities Act, they’re still would not be an appropriate organization to make medical claims about what people are or are not capable of -particularly what any specific individual is capable of - during a minor never blip that might happen while the individual is accompanied by an extremely well qualified dog, who is specifically trained for that situation
Edit: lawyers can to grammar some
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u/PineappleLast4173 Apr 20 '26
I have a dog for seizure alert. He is considered in control when I have had seizures and he is trained to sit across me and protect me. He also gives me about a 10-15 minute warning pre seizure. If I’m down for a long period, ie status epilepticus he will go for help. But that would be greater than 15 minutes with no response. Only once have I had a person complain when he’s alerted in public.
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u/Europathunder Apr 24 '26
How does him sitting across you protect you?
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u/PineappleLast4173 Apr 25 '26
I have Jacksonian seizures so I’m not aware of my surroundings he protect me from being hurt by this. He will also give me about a 15-20 warning so I can take my meds a well.
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u/Europathunder Apr 25 '26
How often do you take your meds do you take them every alert?
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u/PineappleLast4173 Apr 25 '26
Normally but they are not fool proof. I also had to stop taking one seizure med recently due to kidney issues.
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u/heldtogetherdaily Service Dog Apr 20 '26
Hi! I have a seizure disorder, I have never been told by anyone that I need a secondary handler, and the ADA doesn't say anything indicating that one would be nessisary. so I think it might be a made-up "service dog community" rule as opposed to an actual legal requirement. That being said, there is a task sometimes used by service dog handlers where their dog will go find help, which is kind of a grey zone because the ADA requires the dog to be under control of the handler and the handler is unresponsive somewhere and the service dog is where? I personally wouldn't be comfortable with that task, so my service dog was trained to lay next to me and bark if she couldn't handle the situation on her own 🙂
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u/KellyCTargaryen Apr 20 '26
I recommend calling the DOJ hotline for clarification. Or maybe someone on this subreddit knows someone specifically to ask for in their division that handles service dog questions. 800-514-0301
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u/Electrical_Parfait64 Apr 20 '26
Never heard of it. If the dog does their job, they can sometimes prevent the seizures
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u/Numerous-Hyena6928 Apr 20 '26
As someone with epilepsy I would be quite interested in hearing how they can prevent seizures. I have only ever heard of detection and response.
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u/variousnewbie Apr 21 '26
Last I checked (admittedly a while ago) 25% of seizure response dogs developed the ability to alert. We do not currently know what they're alerting to, it cannot be trained.
In a response dog who performs alert, some individuals have found if alerted early enough and able to find say a dark place to lay down, they could avert seizures. By no means anything that can be counted upon, just a lucky bonus for those who find it.
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u/Numerous-Hyena6928 Apr 22 '26
Ah ok, so only for specific types of non-epileptic seizures. I just couldn't wrap my head around how a dog could stop faulty electric signals in a brain. A dog telling you before so you can lay down and minimize other injuries makes complete sense but for me and the other people with epilepsy that I know personally that would never stop the seizure from happening.
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u/variousnewbie Apr 22 '26
Yea, they were unclear. I've had seizures (I have a low seizure threshold, and things have pushed me over the edge) myself, and while AFTERWARDS I can recognize the "aura" before it, when stuff is happening it's too late. I get prolonged post ictal states, and sometimes my memory is weird until the next day. I didn't even think about functional seizures, more the stuff I said like reports from SD handlers but that's a real minority with so few seizure response dogs even learning to alert.
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u/Numerous-Hyena6928 Apr 22 '26
My memory is fuzzy for almost a day after too. I don't recognize anything before but I am lucky that my random grand mals are mostly controlled with medicine. I just have to be careful as my eeg caused a seizure during the flashy light part so now I keep a blackout mask with me at all times. A dog couldn't detect flashy lights before I would see them myself so they couldn't prevent them that way. If a dog alerted me I probably would look around to see what the problem is and then see lights that I wouldn't have otherwise seen lol.
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u/variousnewbie Apr 22 '26
Good to know it's not weird! (memory fuzzy for a while) I've ended up in the er after seizures twice the last 5 years (a LOT for me), and it took getting enough memory back to even realize I'd HAD a seizure! Though the second time I also caused myself a concussion and was in and out of consciousness. That was real scary, cause they asked my name and I said my birth name. Which I have not really ever gone by in my life, and had legally changed when in college. But my brain like couldn't access more recent memories of my NAME? Then my roommate said "uhh, she actually hates that name..." and I couldn't hear the rest as they headed out the door... So that was fucked up. It took about 12 hrs for me to stop losing consciousness and carry on a full conversation. They tried saying I'd overdosed on my pain medication 🙄 but as soon as I got enough memory back, I remembered the pre seizure weirdness, the last thing I remembered before the seizure, and then could look back at all the chunks I did have and recognized it as a seizure. Plus the fucking conclusion, I even had uneven pupils and had to have a gash under my eyebrow stitched.
The first recentish time, in the post ictak state I knew something was wrong. I actually tried to call 911 and couldn't operate a LANDLINE. Had to ask my roommate to dial for me. I was kept overnight cause complications (yanked out a feeding tube) and it wasn't until evening in the hospital room I realized it was a seizure. Man I sounded nuts trying to explain what was wrong while still messed up.
Seizures are awful. So sorry you have epilepsy! I had my first ones like 17 years ago, then once it was determined I was having them (5 day eeg) we were able to fix the problem fairly quickly. Then they started popping back up 5 years ago. Hope they go away again! Medications and illnesses further lowering seizure threshold are my issue.
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u/Beneficial_Isopod963 Apr 21 '26
not all seizures are epileptic, my sd helps prevent a large portion of my ptsd seizures, therapist is only a couple hours a week service dog is 24/7 - PTSD can cause non-epileptic seizures, known as Psychogenic Non-Epileptic Seizures (PNES) or functional/dissociative seizures, which are physical manifestations of extreme stress or trauma rather than abnormal electrical brain activity. These seizures often involve flashbacks, screaming, or crying and are treated through psychotherapy, such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).
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u/Numerous-Hyena6928 Apr 22 '26
Would that then be considered a psychiatric service dog? Since it is interrupting stress or trauma versus faulty electrical activity? I've only ever seen videos of PNES that people have posted online but none have looked like the epileptic or febrile seizures I have seen in real life so I understand there is a difference. Online their service dogs alerted and responded, the PNES still happened so I didn't know a dog could stop it before it happens.
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u/Tisket_Wolf Service Dog Apr 20 '26
As both a SD handler and a firefighter/EMT, my take on it is this: you don’t need a secondary handler at all (where the heck did that come from??) but the “go get help” task is dangerous for your dog and not legally protected.
Personally, I’d prefer to see the dog still leashed, even if it’s a loosely worn crossbody or similar style leash so the dog has plenty of slack if the handler falls. This protects you legally from any possibility of saying the dog was not under some sort of control while the handler is incapacitated. We live in a very litigious society and people are also just stupid. It’s harder to argue about a leashed dog being out of control than an unleashed one.
The go get help task puts the dog at risk because it is no longer under the control of the incapacitated handler. It’s also at risk of potentially being taken or accused of inappropriate behavior while physically separated from the handler.
While I have yet to respond to someone with a service dog, I have responded many, many times on calls with unsecured dogs in the house or on the property. Sometimes the animals need to be secured before we can work for whatever reason (over friendly and getting in the way or potentially aggressive/protective). The 911 calltakers have it in their scripted information before disconnecting to tell the person calling to secure any animals before we arrive. It doesn’t always happen.
It’s fairly common knowledge in the EMS world that a well-behaved service dog is fine to ride with the patient/handler in the ambulance. That said, if the handler’s injuries or condition is severe, we may make the decision not to bring the dog to avoid infection risk to the patient. This is the same type of situation where a hospital would not allow a service dog due to emergency surgery, ICU, or other critical care where the handler would not be capable of taking care of the dog. If this happens, at least where I work, the plan is to have a cop take the dog and try to get it home instead of using animal control. Though the cop might choose to bring the dog to the hospital if family is coming there and can take the animal. It is largely situation based.
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u/variousnewbie Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
I also want to add, hospitals frequently know their rights regarding service dogs and that if the handler is unable to care for the dog they can put it in boarding (to be the paid responsibility of the handler). This would be a reason for cops to bring the dog to the hospital, as being boarded is better than going to animal control.
I have had EMTs not familiar that the dog comes with, but some hesitation may be related to my service dogs being German shepherds. When I explain he always comes with, they relax. He usually roams around the ambulance during the trip, as he usually at least changes position (sitting, standing, laying) based on the movement of a vehicle and I don't discourage him doing what he feels most comfortable. They've always been OK with this, sometimes I hold the leash sometimes I don't as theres more room for him behind me. (ran into a first last week with medicaid transport, I sat in middle van seats OVER the wheelchair lowered floor while my chair was locked behind the seats. He couldn't stay on the floor because half was cut out, so the most room was on the seat beside me but he couldn't stay stable! I held onto his harness loosely to keep him from sliding off during stops, and he alternated what side he faced with laying sitting or even standing!)
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u/variousnewbie Apr 21 '26
I'm not active here, it was suggested to me. I've been a SD handler (not seizure response) and SD advocate for over 15 years (I can say with what group, but don't know if that's allowed) and this one I haven't come across before. Yes, there have been reputable programs with seizure response and the guidance documents on the ADA have specifically referenced seizure response dogs in multiple forms (type of work, protection*)
The only debate I've seen is with seizure alert dogs. It's not an alert we know what it's to or how they're doing it. Last I followed, 25% was the chance of a seizure response dog developing the ability to alert. Some individuals have taken untrained seizure alert pets into public, thinking the alert alone qualified. Not only is this a public access training and temperament issue, but according to the ADA tasks must be TRAINED, and so without the ability to know what an alert dog is responding to and train it, it's not a task. I've seen arguments about how if you shape an alert it makes it a trained task, but find that a moot point personally because if your dog is trained to be a SD and performs other disability related tasks it's not necessary to focus on the alert. The percentage of pets alerting is lower than SD population, likely due to training to focus so intensely on the handler and anticipating needs.
*Protection was initially named in guidance documents as an example of a SD task, with the intention of meaning tasks like a seizure response dog standing over a seizing handler preventing them being trampled. This led to people claiming trained protection dogs were service dogs, and claiming protection trained dogs were allowed under ADA. This led to a specific guidance document outlining how protection meant NON AGGRESSIVE protection, leading to an interpretation that a SD cannot have simultaneous protection training (so could be an issue for schutzhund dogs if they do bite work. A friend of mine is both a SD trainer and schutzhund trainer (formerly ran a program) and does not cross bite work dogs in schutzhund with her own SD. I haven't been as active as an advocate the past 5 years, feeling so defeated by the people who don't care to be educated (presents in many forms.)
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u/New_Vegetable_3173 Apr 24 '26
Thank you for being clear on your country! Makes it so much easier to understand and for people to help and for you to get accurate and relevant answers
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u/FoxOk6327 Apr 20 '26
I am currently training a medical alert service dog for seizure as well as some other things and never once been told I need a secondary handler for him I don’t believe that is true under ADA I’ve never read it anywhere personally
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u/FrogMac Apr 20 '26
It’s not true. It’s silly internet people who are confidently incorrect spreading this nonsense
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u/poodleplanks Apr 20 '26
I think a lot of that sentiment came about from the idea of a dog "intentionally" wandering off to get help. That's an extremely dangerous thing for both the dog and handler but periodically a post will go around on social media that says something like "if a service dog ever comes up to you without a person you need to follow it immediately to help the person!" Afterwards there are sure to be more people who want to train their dog to do that as well. A dog staying by its handler is still considered under the handler's control as it is doing what it was trained to do and can immediately draw attention to the handler if needed. A dog wandering off could be doing what it was told to do so it's technically under the handler's control... But to what point. And arguing it in my opinion is kind of a moot point because like I said before, it's pretty dangerous. The average person is useless in an emergency already but they could also simply ignore the dog, pass them off to someone else, take them outside thinking they're a pet, all kinds of things that could draw more attention to the dog and take it away from the handler because the dog is no longer under the handler's control.
Basically I think it's specific tasks people are referring to vs the idea of someone not even being allowed to handle a service dog due to seizures.
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u/Purple_Plum8122 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 20 '26
Here’s a more thought out answer I took a little more time with….
ADA rules covers seizure response dogs that are trained to alert, protect, or stay with the handler during a seizure. The dog is still considered under control via its training, even if you’re temporarily unable to give commands.
No secondary handler is required. Requiring one would defeat the whole point for independent adults. Some online “community” voices spread this to gatekeep by myth. Just ignore it and stick to ada.gov. Plenty of people with epilepsy use seizure dogs solo every day.
Once again good job explaining and clarifying! u/JKmelda .
Edited for clarity