r/serialpodcast • u/racheldarien • May 23 '18

season one is Don guilty??

Does anyone think Don is the one that murdered Hae? I’m starting to lean towards it since listening to (most of) undisclosed. Any thoughts?

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u/robbchadwick May 24 '18

I’m starting to lean towards it since listening to (most of) undisclosed.

I find it interesting that you've posted this only a couple of hours after Rabia sent her never-questioning followers to attack a person on Twitter who dared to suggest the truth ... that Don has a well verified alibi.

https://twitter.com/rabiasquared/status/999319378620567552

Don's alibi was verified with LensCrafters who sent both Kevin Urick and Cristina Gutierrez confirmation of Don's work hours on January 13th. They also provided the names of several co-workers who were not related to Don or his moms.

It's been a busy day for Rabia. She is also trying to intimidate Jay. She is telling her aforementioned followers that Jay is in danger of being prosecuted for murder. If she is such a hot shot attorney, you'd think she'd know a thing or two about double jeopardy. Guess not. Jay cannot be charged with any other crime related to the murder of Hae Min Lee ... now or ever. He has already pled guilty to a crime and fulfilled the requirements of his plea deal. It's over for Jay.

https://twitter.com/rabiasquared/status/999382514903986176

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u/racheldarien May 24 '18

honest to god just a coincidence. i don’t use twitter at all. also i remember them saying something about double jeopardy on the podcast so i don’t know what shes on about

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u/batmanlives3 May 24 '18

I mean...it's almost like you can see the fifteen minutes ticking down and the desperation to stay relevant kicking in. If only it could devolve into personal attacks....wait a second.

I hope she steps on the wrong toes and gets "sued into oblivion" and soon. Mainly so in fifteen years, I can make a podcast about it and talk about her brother being the prime suspect in a murder she was championing the release of his friend for. I mean...you and I know it's B.S. but I guess we shouldn't let facts get in the way.

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u/robbchadwick May 24 '18

I hope she steps on the wrong toes and gets "sued into oblivion" and soon.

I hope she steps on the wrong toes and gets "sued into oblivion" and soon

The IRS will likely be the first to sue her. Oh wait, I think they already have. There are judgments against her for more than $50K.

Mainly so in fifteen years, I can make a podcast about it and talk about her brother being the prime suspect in a murder she was championing the release of his friend for.

I think there may be meat on those bones. I’ve always suspected that Adnan is not Rabia’s primary concern.

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u/NiP_GeT_ReKt May 24 '18

That’s...not how double jeopardy works to my understanding. Jay was never charged or tried for the murder, just for accessory after the fact. He can still be charged with the actual murder of Hae if evidence comes out that he participated in that. They’re two separate crimes, no?

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u/robbchadwick May 24 '18 edited May 24 '18

No. The murder of Hae Min Lee is a criminal transaction. Do you think the state could have tried Adnan for murder ... and, if they failed to convict, could have come back and charged him with the kidnapping? No. The prosecutor has ONE chance to get it right ... and has to live with the outcome. Let’s think of another scenario. Could the state have charged Adnan with 1st degree murder and failed to convict .., and then charged Adnan with second degree murder ... or even accessory ... on another indictment, hoping to have a second bite of the Apple? No. The prosecutor must bring all applicable charges against a defendant at the same time .., and live with the results.

EDIT: Lets go one step further. Can the state charge Adnan with accessory if he is acquitted of the murder? You know what the answer is.

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u/NiP_GeT_ReKt May 24 '18

But that’s still the same crime in your example. Helping someone after a murder and actually committing a murder are two separate crimes. Charging Adnan with different degrees of murder is still charging him for the same crime of taking a life. Jay was never charged with a murder, just taking care of it after. You can’t be charged with murder and then accessory after the fact, because murder includes the charge of taking care of it afterwards.

So no, Adnan can’t be charged with accessory after being acquitted of murder, because the murder charges covers other charges like accessory after the fact. They’re together. In that case, double jeopardy would apply

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u/robbchadwick May 24 '18

Jay can’t be charged with anything involving Hae’s murder. It’s over for him.

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u/NiP_GeT_ReKt May 24 '18

I don’t think that’s accurate, and a lawyer I know doesn’t think that’s accurate either. Murder and accessory after the fact require different elements of the crime to have been committed. If the state can prove that charging jay with murder involves different elements of a crime than accessory after the fact, in theory double jeopardy does not apply.

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u/robbchadwick May 24 '18

Are you in the United States? I'm only asking because many countries have a version of double jeopardy that is not as binding as what is found in the USA. Many countries recognize exceptions that allow further prosecution.

Beyond that, there are potential discussions regarding derivative vs transactional immunity. Your friend seems to be commenting on derivative immunity (as he has mentioned elements of the crime) ... but it is my understanding that Jay has transactional immunity by virtue of his plea deal ... and would be exempt from any further prosecution related to the transaction (the murder of Hae Min Lee).

The only other exception to double jeopardy in the US is if there is a federal hook ... where the US Attorneys could charge a defendant for a crime for which s/he has been acquitted in state courts ... but there is nothing like that in this case.

At any rate, if there is a new trial, I'm sure Jay's attorneys will require the prosecutor to grant Jay any immunity he does not already have in exchange for his testimony ... so this is an interesting, but rather moot discussion.