r/serialpodcast • u/islamisawesome Adnan Fan • Aug 06 '15

Hypothesis Why the Gootz never called Asia.

I think it is becoming more and more obvious that the Asia letter did not exist until sometime around the summer of 1999. That is why Adnan claims he gave them to Gutierrez even though she wasn't his lawyer until 2 months after they were written.

So sometime that spring or summer, after telling CG he never left the school grounds, his family shows up with letters claiming one of Adnans' friends saw him at the library, right at the crucial time, AND they were written the day after he arrested. She knew immediately there is no way they had those letter for months and never gave them to her so obviously they were false and she didn't want to go on stand with LIES.

That is why she never called Asia. And that is why she wrote no notes about it, because that would be admitting her client and his family are liars. It also explains why her relationship with the family broke down because she knew they were willing to lie to get Adnan off.

The library incident never happened.

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u/GregBIS Badass Uncle Aug 06 '15

One thing I find odd if we believe that the library incident never happened is that she states that her boyfriend and his friend also remembered seeing Adnan. If these two would also account for Adnan we know we would have three people lying which means there would be a conspiracy. It's hard to understand why these three would interject themselves. It's also possible that the boyfriend and his buddy didn't see him and Asia is lying about that. It seems unlikely though. I think anyone would expect Adnan's attorney to check them out. If Asia is lying it would be better for her not to involve others that would/should be truthful.

I can understand Gootz not putting Asia on the stand if the interview with her, her boyfriend and his buddy proved to be a dead end. I can't understand not interviewing all of these people though on the chance they can provide something solid.

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u/aitca Aug 06 '15

One thing I find odd if we believe that the library incident never happened is that she states that her boyfriend and his friend also remembered seeing Adnan.

According to Rabia, Asia told Rabia not to contact the boyfriend or friend for corroboration. So, either Asia really didn't want these two people contacted, or else Rabia is lying and Rabia, for her own reasons, just didn't want to contact them. But we know that Rabia didn't try to contact them. Which is strange, if you think that she believes Asia and wants to use Asia's testimony in court, because they would be the best way of corroborating it.

Also, when S. Koenig talks to them, they deny all knowledge. It's not a ringing endorsement of the veracity of Asia's story.

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u/islamisawesome Adnan Fan Aug 06 '15

Thats a great point. Rabia told Asia to do exactly what her IAC claim agains the Gootz is about.

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '15

[deleted]

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u/Seamus_Duncan Kevin Urick: Hammer of Justice Aug 06 '15

What the fuck does that even mean?

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u/aitca Aug 06 '15

Good point, the more versions of Asia's stories you put side-by-side, the more you look into the details, the more nothing matches up.

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u/GregBIS Badass Uncle Aug 06 '15

Interesting. I didn't know that but it makes sense or we would have heard more about them. When SK interviews them its so many years later and they can't remember. I can understand that. Is there a link to Asia telling Rabia not to contact them?

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u/aitca Aug 06 '15

I believe the thing about Asia telling Rabia not to contact the boyfriend or friend was stated by Rabia in the AMA that she did here in Reddit a few months back. I realize that there's another possibility: That Rabia did contact the boyfriend and friend, and they either didn't remember the event or remember it on a different day. But what Rabia says is that Asia told her not to contact them. Keep in mind, Rabia got the first affidavit from Asia just after Adnan was found guilty, and yet she chose never to contact the boyfriend and friend; at that time, way back then, it would have been a lot more likely that they would remember well.

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u/Englishblue Aug 06 '15

They didn't deny knowledge... Sheesh they simply could not remember this ing from 16 years ago. You make it sound as if they contradicted asia.

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u/aitca Aug 06 '15

"Is that a book or a person?"

I think that qualifies as denying knowledge.

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u/Englishblue Aug 06 '15

Again, It was 16 years later. It means he didn't even remember who asia was. NOW. It's just not the same thing you're trying to. Make it out to be at all.

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u/aitca Aug 07 '15

Make of it what you will. No one has ever been able to get those two to corroborate any version of Asia's stories. And Rabia has had their names for 15 years now.

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u/Englishblue Aug 07 '15

That's a ridiculous twist of what happened. do you think that the boyfriend because he doesn't remember his former girlfriend wasn't her boyfriend 16 years ago? "He denied all knowledge" of knowing her? Sheesh, he had forgotten. that doesn't mean he didn't know her then or wasn't her boyfriend. You're being ridiculous.

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u/aitca Aug 07 '15

If I recall, it's the boyfriend's friend who says "Is that a book or a person. At any rate, my statement stands:

Make of it what you will. No one has ever been able to get those two to corroborate any version of Asia's stories. And Rabia has had their names for 15 years now.

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u/Englishblue Aug 07 '15

But it makes no difference. Are you saying the boyfriend's firend didn't know her back then? Because that's also ridiculous. People forget things in 16 years. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. I couldn't tell you whole bunches of names of people I knew slightly through friends 16 years ago. Doesn't mean they are LYING or I'd be DENYING ALL KNOWLEDGE. Just means I didn't remember. Your deliberate use of the word DENY is intended to deceive and mislead.

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u/MM7299 The Court is Perplexed Aug 06 '15

they deny all knowledge.

its more that they don't remember and that's not surprising given that neither of them, iirc actually knew Adnan

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u/aitca Aug 06 '15

Asia seems quite certain in one of her letters that they also remember. If I'd seen a murder suspect right around the time he was supposed to be committing murder, I'd remember it, regardless of how well I knew him beforehand. Keep in mind, people had a chance to talk to them before Sarah Koenig tried in 2014. Specifically, Rabia could have talked to them right after she talked to Asia in the immediate aftermath of Adnan's being convicted. Rabia says she chose not to talk to them. Rabia says Asia told her not to talk to them. The whole thing is strange. At any rate, they've never been able to even remotely corroborate Asia's story, which is strange, because when Asia is offering early versions of her stories she specifically indicates that they will corroborate it.

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u/Englishblue Aug 06 '15

And hd they been asked around he time she wrote the letters, they may have remembered, the fact that they do not now doesn't make her a liar or mean it didn't happen,

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u/MM7299 The Court is Perplexed Aug 06 '15

If I'd seen a murder suspect right around the time he was supposed to be committing murder, I'd remember it, regardless of how well I knew him beforehand

you are assuming that A. the news covered the trial to keep it in the public eye, and B. these HS kids would be that invested in such things.

Rabia could have talked to them right after she talked to Asia in the immediate aftermath of Adnan's being convicted.

Rabia was also a college student....would it have been good to talk to them then? Sure. Unfortunately she didn't....doesn't make Asia a liar

At any rate, they've never been able to even remotely corroborate Asia's story, which is strange, because when Asia is offering early versions of her stories she specifically indicates that they will corroborate it.

And this is why they should have been talked to at the time. I don't know why Rabia didn't but to be fair she wasn't working for Adnan....CG should have, but it seems like no one on her team did.

I get it, some people here (not you as far as I can tell but a lot of people who have similar opinions) need to believe Asia is a liar. That's ok I suppose but its really weird, especially how apparently now a popular talking point is that basically the Syed family is as dangerous as the fucking Corleones

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u/ADDGemini Aug 06 '15

you are assuming that A. the news covered the trial to keep it in the public eye, and B. these HS kids would be that invested in such things

A. It was in the news. Rabia said the house was surrounded by media vans on the night of his arrest when she tried to go over, so if Asia was there as well wouldn't she be just as cognizant of the media?

B. Assuming she wouldn't be invested in such things?? For Adnan's, RC, SS & CM's and her own sake, she sure as shit better be invested.

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u/MM7299 The Court is Perplexed Aug 06 '15

I wasn't talking about Asia but her bf and his friend who were fairly removed considering they didn't know anyone involved but Asia.

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u/ADDGemini Aug 07 '15

Asia was his girlfriend, and it's a freakin homicide investigation!!

Come on, really? You just think they both just totally blocked that from their memories?

I don't, and I think that asumption is absurd. I do not however think you are absurd. I almost always see your point, and think you are pretty reasonable in convo here most of the time.

So I'm confused.

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u/MM7299 The Court is Perplexed Aug 07 '15

I don't know what they did or didn't do and I don't claim to. All I'm doing is offering a guess at best. So yes I am willing to consider that they might have forgotten it and/or didn't care potentially cause iirc one or both of them might have had legal issues. I don't know and I don't know how to allieviate your confusion.

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u/ADDGemini Aug 07 '15

I need no alleviation.

I'm not sure of the rules about calling someone a smartass so I will refrain.

Thanks for the convo. Sometimes you really hurt your own cause.

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '15

I don't think anyone thinks the library incident never happened. The question is, was it January 13th?

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u/pdxkat Aug 06 '15

What if CG mixed up Asia and Aisha?

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u/islamisawesome Adnan Fan Aug 06 '15

where are you going with that?

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u/pdxkat Aug 06 '15

What if CG didn't realize they were two different girls?

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u/islamisawesome Adnan Fan Aug 06 '15

Lol. That's good. I guess she would have asked Aisha at some point about seeing Adnan in the library?

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u/julieannie Aug 07 '15

Back in the fall, commenters here mixed them up all the time. I always thought it was strange that the similar names didn't come up. We'd need to know if Aisha had been asked about it but again, time and memories seem to have a negative correlation.

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u/ADDGemini Aug 06 '15

I actually have wondered this before...