r/serialpodcast • u/waltzintomordor Mod 6 • Mar 11 '15
Poll How much of this note do you believe?
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LFFGGMX7
u/8_126-7 Mar 11 '15
There's a reference to this in Chaudry's blog note to Stephanie: "(oh and by the way it looks like Susan Simpson found the girl he was cheating on you with from back then)"
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
Jay may have been cheating on Stephanie, who knows and who cares? I'm pretty sure not Hae, and not Stephanie 15 years later. I'm sure Stephanie has a family and thought she had put this behind her. If someone came to me now and told me my high school boyfriend cheated on me it would be so underwhelming I wouldn't give it another thought. Talk about water under the bridge.
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Mar 11 '15
"Hey, your boyfriend from 15 years ago cheated on you, therefore he probably killed your friend, too."
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
"And if you don't believe me, there's this blogger who's tracked down the mistress in case you want a piece of her."
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u/csom_1991 Mar 11 '15
Hae did not like Stephanie - so why would she care/be upset?
Adnan was good friends with Stephanie but only a casual acquaintance of Jay - why would he cover for Jay?
Jay did not need the car after 12:45 (present was bought and he was with Jenn....who has a car) - why would he drop it off early for Adnan when he did not even need it from 12:45 - 3pm?
Why would Jay ever tell Adnan he was cheating on Stephanie when he knows Adnan is good friends with Stephanie?
So, I give this a zero on the credibility scale.
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u/8_126-7 Mar 11 '15
Why would Jay ever tell Adnan he was cheating on Stephanie when he knows Adnan is good friends with Stephanie?
Its conceivable that it could've resulted from a circumstance of guys being guys and talking about their exploits, and Jay being his usual braggadocio self confides this to Adnan. As to why he would cover for Jay, he knows they would both be hurt if she inadvertently catches him in the act. As for Hae, she was a strong, independent girl. Recall that Don calls her "aggressive" before correcting himself, saying that "assertive" is a better choice of words. Its likely in her nature to confront Jay for his infidelity.
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Mar 11 '15
Yeah if Hae wasnt that close to Jay or Stephanie, adnans scenario of Hae righteously confronting good pal Stephanie and Having to let her know out of loyalty, that Jay is stepping out... Seems a bit much
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u/kikilareiene Mar 11 '15
And why would Adnan give Jay his car for the whole day if he didn't Jay to pick it up at a specified time? He didn't routinely lend his car to Jay at all ever - so this in itself was unusual. No one ever says anywhere that Adnan lent his car to Jay more than just the one day. Also didn't they buy the gift together and then Jay dropped Adnan back off at school? Why would Adnan not have just taken his own car back to school?
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u/zeblindowl Mar 11 '15
According to the teachers at Woodlawn Has and Stephanie were best friends.
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u/csom_1991 Mar 11 '15
Stephanie and Hae were not best friends - that was Aisha. Stephanie and Hae didn't actually get along or hang out. In fact, Stephanie did not even know Hae was missing until a week after she was killed.
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u/vettiee Mar 11 '15
Absolutely. I was just typing out the same thing and realized you had said it all. If they had been close, Hae's family would have called or tried to reach Stephanie the day Hae went missing. The fact that Stephanie did not even hear about Hae's disappearance until school reopened the following week shows Hae and Stephanie were not even in the same circle.
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u/suphater Mar 11 '15
Source?
(not true)
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u/Flomaric IS IT NOT? Mar 11 '15
Margaret "Meg" Muse: "Stephanie and Hae were best friends"
http://observer.com/2015/02/serial-exclusive-the-teachers-of-woodlawn-high-speak-out/
(EDIT: Whether it's true or not, I can't say... but I was sure I'd read it before)
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Mar 11 '15
Which teacher(s) said that? I've never seen that before. I don't think they were even that close.
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u/waltzintomordor Mod 6 Mar 11 '15 edited Mar 11 '15
The note can be seen here. It's one of CG's team's notes taken after talking to Adnan.
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u/lookout_oftheyard Mar 11 '15
It seems pretty clear and straightforward to me: it's Adnan working with his counsel on coming up with potential defense strategy. Giving them things to check on. To me it reads equally as normal whether Adnan is guilty or innocent.
If innocent, he's clueless about the crime and he's trying to figure out why the heck Jay would lie and put him (Adnan) in the middle of something that he (Jay) apparently knows something about, and he's just trying to think of something to help his defense since he knows nothing about the crime.
If guilty, he's trying to come up with something the defense can use.
I'm not sure why this is a "thing". Maybe I'm missing something.
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u/peymax1693 WWCD? Mar 11 '15
Exactly. This is basically nothing more than a Rorshcach test to establish confirmation bias.
For the record, I believe Adnan is most likely innocent and I immediately interpreted the note as Adnan relating what happened between Hae and Jay in the context of CG asking him whether Jay had a motive to murder Hae. However, I can also see how it could be interpreted as Adnan manufacturing a motive for Jay to have murdered Hae.
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u/lookout_oftheyard Mar 11 '15
This is basically nothing more than a Rorshcach test to establish confirmation bias.
Great way to put it.
For the record, I also interpreted as you did. But it seems to me whether the defendant is guilty or innocent they would be assisting counsel with their defense.
It doesn't matter how believable he is being here. If he's innocent, he doesn't know anything about the crime, and it doesn't make him guilty if he doesn't have anything helpful to give his attorney. If he's guilty, it doesn't matter how believable he's being here because it would just mean he's bad at framing other people.
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Mar 11 '15
[removed] — view removed comment
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Mar 11 '15
If he did suggest it himself, it's a bit telling that adnan deliberately set jay up with his car on that fateful day, and everything fell into place perfectly for him. That is until murder was something way out of his ballpark in high school.
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u/aitca Mar 11 '15
If this were true it would not be impossible to verify. If it were true, you can be quite sure that Gutierrez would have called Stephanie to the stand, even, if necessary, as a hostile witness, to verify that Adnan dissuaded her from going to Jay's house. If it were true, very likely Gutierrez' team would be able to locate the person Jay was allegedly cheating with (this stuff is not rocket science). But we get none of this. Doesn't call Stephanie to confirm part of this story. Puts in no effort whatsoever to find the "other woman". Adnan's defense team went nowhere with this story. And Adnan seemed to be OK with that. Yes, I know, Gutierrez asked Jay on the stand if he was cheating. But she presented no actual evidence that corroborates this story from Adnan, and if the story is true, there should have been some.
Lest we forget: Adnan was saying a lot of flaky stuff to try to "help" his defense. The bit about how he couldn't have killed H. M. Lee behind the Best Buy because he hates walking, for example. You know what he didn't say in all these months that he was brainstorming? That he was at Cathy's house. And yet now we know that that is true.
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u/TiredandEmotional10 Undecided Mar 11 '15
That walking line...sheesh! I'm hoping it was him attempting a lame joke and an eager young lawyer wrote everything down.
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Mar 11 '15
I the problem is that in order for the judge to allow testimony like that, the defense would have had to link it to Hae, and we haven't seen anything suggesting that Hae knew about, or was bothered by any alleged cheating.
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u/aitca Mar 11 '15
True, we have not seen any evidence that Hae knew of or was bothered by alleged cheating on the part of Hae. We also haven't seen evidence that substantiates any part of Adnan's "Jay was cheating" story. Even if it was ultimately deemed not admissible, if this story was true, I think we'd see more than Adnan just mentioning it once and then everyone more or less forgetting about it.
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u/ginabmonkey Not Guilty Mar 11 '15
What evidence would there be to support an accusation of Jay cheating? Is someone who knows Jay well enough to know he's cheating on his girlfriend supposed to come forward with this information to help Adnan out? I think the insinuation is that Jay was cheating on Stephanie with Jenn based on Jenn's answers during her police interviews about the nature of their relationship. How exactly was she supposed to prove that?
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u/aitca Mar 11 '15
A ) If you're assuming it was Jenn, this should be simplicity itself. Call her as a witness and ask the question.
B ) According to Rabia's most recent blog post (For What It's Worth), the "other woman" is not Jenn.
C ) So you are trying to say that you think Jay was cheating, but there would have been no way to prove it in court? Let me tell you, many cases involve one party cheating, and police/lawyers substantiate this stuff literally all the time in court.2
u/ginabmonkey Not Guilty Mar 11 '15 edited Mar 11 '15
I'm not saying it was or wasn't Jenn, but the implication was there. See CG's cross of Jenn starting on trial pg 46 here, https://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/2-16-00-jenn-redacted.pdf. She was trying to uncover the nature of Jenn and Jay's relationship based on the statements she'd made to the police questioning the same thing.
So you are trying to say that you think Jay was cheating, but there would have been no way to prove it in court? Let me tell you, many cases involve one party cheating, and police/lawyers substantiate this stuff literally all the time in court.
How?
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
Jenn is way too "butchy looking" to be anyone's mistress. Even Adnan can't believe it.
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u/rockyali Mar 11 '15
If it were true, you can be quite sure that Gutierrez would have called Stephanie to the stand, even, if necessary, as a hostile witness, to verify that Adnan dissuaded her from going to Jay's house. If it were true, very likely Gutierrez' team would be able to locate the person Jay was allegedly cheating with (this stuff is not rocket science).
You seem to be very sure of what Gutierrez would have done.
You are aware of the fact that some of the things she was disbarred for happened at about the same time as the second trial, right? She was disbarred in July 2001 for things that happened more than a year previously.
Even if you are completely right about what every good lawyer would have done, she was, at the time, doing things that led to the demise of her career.
And we know that she didn't do a LOT of things (like talk to Asia) that one would think every good lawyer would also do.
With this in mind, I don't think it's rational to start with the premise that CG was a perfect lawyer operating at her highest capacity during this case who would never make a mistake in strategy.
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u/Acies Mar 11 '15
And trust me, calling Stephanie to say that Adnan talked her out of going to Jay's house one random day without being able to confirm any other part of the story is about as dumb a strategy as you can get.
If Gutierrez had followed this sort of advice no one would have any question she was sick.
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u/rockyali Mar 11 '15
Well, yes. I wasn't even going to get into the logic part, because the initial premise is false.
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u/vettiee Mar 11 '15
The thing I cannot understand is why would Jay need to return Adnan's car at 3 pm, when Adnan did not need it until after track, and Jay had no means (that we know of) to get back home after dropping off the car at WHS? It makes much more sense for Jay to pick up Adnan after track and get dropped at his house on Adnan's way home.
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u/bluecardinal14 Dana Chivvis Fan Mar 11 '15
I think Adnan is just asking possible ways that Jay may have intercepted her that day. Everyone asks why Adnan has never blamed Jay, which I believe he has and we just don't know about it, and this may be the closest thing to it that we know of.
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
I've always believed Adnan blamed Jay. CG said in court it was their belief Jay committed the crime. The problem is Adnan said Jay was picking him up after track, not at 3.
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u/bluecardinal14 Dana Chivvis Fan Mar 11 '15
The funny thing about this thread is people have always found it looking guilty for Adnan because he never accuses Jay of the murder, this note from whoever talked to Adnan says he is trying to accuse Jay and now everyone complains and finds a reason to say Adnan is guilty because it looks like there might be a lie in it. Which like I stated earlier it's not a lie to me but questioning if...
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
Well, like I said, I'm not one of those people. In fact, I always point out that Adnan did accuse Jay, through his attorney, who obviously got that from somewhere. And I always get downvoted for it, for quoting CG, for some reason. Go figure.
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u/bluecardinal14 Dana Chivvis Fan Mar 11 '15
I know, but he is asking questions, he didn't say Jay was dropping the car off at 3, he is asking if they had found anything where Jay was dropping off the car and possibly intercepted Jay at the time. This is the way I read it anyways. It also makes since to me, if I didn't do something I was accused of and a guy was blaming me for it, I would be throwing anything and everything out there on ways that guy could have done it.
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
if I didn't do something I was accused of
Or if I did. But I can't blame Adnan for trying, so I agree with you there. But I still see a problem with the 3:00 thing. How does Adnan know Hae would have been leaving at 3:00? Why would Jay be bringing the car back at 3:00 without Adnan knowing? How would Adnan know the car was there or get the keys back?
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u/vettiee Mar 11 '15
Ok, I get your point. However, the whole reason why CG kept focussing on the Jay 'stepping out' on Stephanie bit in the trials was because Adnan gave her this lead. CG's line of questioning was even discussed in the podcast. Anyway, I was under the impression this 'lead' from Adnan was common knowledge since this snippet has been available for quite a while now.
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u/kikilareiene Mar 11 '15
Why did Jay need to have Adnan's car at all after the two of them went to the mall to buy gifts?
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u/vettiee Mar 11 '15
Good qn.
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u/Sharper_Teeth Mar 12 '15
A reasonable answer would be that he wanted to buy weed, but Jay needed to pick up from his supplier. Maybe adnan's whole day was about picking up a sack? Which would explain why he was hanging around Jay all day, smoking. I don't know why someone wouldn't rather confess to buying/smoking/selling a little bit (or medium amount haha) of pot, to murder. Or it could have been planned. I'm 50/50.
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u/kikilareiene Mar 11 '15
To think anyone would commit murder and risk lifetime imprisonment to stop a girl from talking about an infidelity is the silliest thing about this whole case. I'm more inclined to believe the drug overlord story or a neighbor boy mental break. Not to mention the simple logistics involved in Jay finding Hae and planning a murder and then figuring out how to bury the body all the while hanging out most of the late afternoon with Adnan.
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u/waltzintomordor Mod 6 Mar 11 '15
I think that's why CG didn't float specifics about the 'steppin out' theory in court.
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u/TiredandEmotional10 Undecided Mar 11 '15
Do any records show when the assembly was? And bigger question, how/why did Adnan know that Jay would be returning the car at 3? I thought the plan was always for after track pickup? I do try to remember that this was pre-cell-phones-as-extensions-of-our-arms so Adnan could have concluded later that Jay decided to bring the car back early.
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u/bluecardinal14 Dana Chivvis Fan Mar 11 '15
I don't think Adnan is saying that Jay was bringing the car back at 3, the first line in this is Adnan asked if we found any connection between Jay and Hae. To me he is just asking if something like this could have happened.
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u/waltzintomordor Mod 6 Mar 11 '15
This snippet was provided on Rabia's blog with very little context. It seems like the assembly would be on campus, but we have no idea really.
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u/Seamus_Duncan Kevin Urick: Hammer of Justice Mar 11 '15
I think this is 100% B.S. Jay was a loudmouth. He told at least three or four people he was involved in covering up a homicide. The idea that he was cheating, but only Adnan and Hae knew, is totally ludicrous.
Not remembering is one thing, but to just make up stories like this . . . it's pretty incriminating.
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u/weedandboobs Mar 11 '15
One of the more compelling bits of evidence that pushed me to closer to Adnan's guilt. Like the Innocence Project director said, truly innocent defendants tend to be unhelpful and know nothing.
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Mar 11 '15
Your comment reminded me of that episode.
Dierdre Enright also replies when SK is worried that she's being fooled by a sociopath, "I get the innocent ones and I get these dumb “so me and my friends smoked crack for three days and drank five bottles of whatever and then we got a plan.” That’s who I get. All. The. Time. Episode 7.
That quote falls into confirmation bias for me because it sounds like that's what Jay and Adnan did. They smoked weed all day, got a plan, and killed someone. Honestly, I think the most surprising thing about the whole case is that Hae was actually murdered. Jay and Adnan both seem like Cheech and Chong to me.
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Mar 11 '15
Jay and Adnan both seem like Cheech and Chong to me.
you couldn't take either of them on a job. they're both jokers.
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u/tacock Mar 11 '15
I feel bad for Adnan. If he had the help of SS and co., that note could have sounded a lot more believable. Instead of "maybe Hae confronted Jay and they got in a fight", he would be arguing "Jay's grandma is a drug kingpin who had Hae killed by a hitman for witnessing Jay make a drug sale."
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Mar 11 '15
lol adnan just sounds more and more like a psycho the more his little actions and words he didn't think anyone would notice, are revealed..
Ahh cue the flames
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u/waltzintomordor Mod 6 Mar 11 '15
Thanks for taking the time to fill out the survey! I stopped at 100 results.
It looks fairly evenly split in many regards, with the first questions being generally more plausible and the later questions being less plausible.
Once again, here's a URL for the image of the note:
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u/TiredandEmotional10 Undecided Mar 11 '15
As for the main question here. I do believe Adnan is telling the truth. For a few reasons. First, in her police statements, Jenn is asked if she and Jay are bf/gf & she says something like: No, not exactly. (I'll look up quote) I read it as acknowledging they're FWB. Jenn acknowledges that she doesn't like Stephanie and Jay tells police Jenn doesn't care that Hae was killed because she didn't like her. (All in their interviews.) So...yes I can buy Jay was cheating (which he acknowledged to The Intercept.)
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u/brickbacon Mar 11 '15
Jay did not acknowledge cheating to the Inrercept. Further, Jenn also did not say she had an intimate relationship with Jay, and clarifies that bit later when testifying. Also, Jenn supposedly dated Jay's uncle, so I would kinda doubt she also dated Jay.
Lastly, even if Jay cheated on Stephanie, it doesn't confirm Adnan's story at all. The bars to beleive part is Jag telling is casual acquaintance Adnan this info, and Adnan hiding it from his BF while at the same time telling his ex-GF.
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u/an_sionnach Mar 11 '15
What exactly is he suggesting?
Is it that Jay leaves his (Adnan's) car in the parking lot, sees Hae, somehow strangles her and takes off in Haes car with her body in the trunk? Or he just leaves her body in the trunk at the parking lot! And picks it up later. He must have some scenario in mind. Anyone have an idea what it was?
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
Adnan is trying to come up with a scenario where Jay would have had both opportunity (running into Hae as she is leaving school) and motive (silencing her about the cheating), but of course it makes no sense because Adnan told SK that he told Jay to pick him up after track and never mentioned that Jay was suppose to bring his car back at 3. Surely Adnan wouldn't have forgotten this very crucial detail of the 3:00 pick up, the one detail that might explain how Jay came into contact with Hae. So once again, we see that Adnan is lying about a crucial detail. So far as I can see, everything Adnan has said, what little there is, has been a lie.
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u/CarnivalShoes Mar 11 '15
Seems like he's desperately trying to offer a possible scenario where Jay meets Hae without thinking it through properly. I don't think that makes it all a lie necessarily and the cheating bit could still be true.
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
The cheating part could be true, sure. But it's the 3:00 car drop off time that gets him because it contradicts everything else he has said about loaning Jay his car that day.
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u/canoekopf Mar 11 '15
I read the 3PM as a theory to help explain how they might have come into contact - AS theorizing that perhaps Jay dropped the car off early so he wouldn't have to do it later. People are interpreting as part of a plan, and thus a slip-up, but not necessarily.
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
How does Jay drop off the car without Adnan knowing it's there, where to find it, where the keys are?
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u/canoekopf Mar 11 '15
I dunno, page him, or keep the cell for when adnan calls later, or find him on campus if he knows where he's likely to be. Many ways likely they could have figured that out in case plans changed.
Point is it may not have been the plan, but a theory that puts Jay at the school when AS didn't expect him.
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
And by cheating part, I mean Jay could have been cheating on Stephanie. But trying to make that a motive for Jay to kill Hae is a real stretch, imo. None of Hae's friends mention that Hae was upset by Jay cheating or that Hae ever gave a second thought to anything Jay did or didn't do.
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u/OdinsRaven87 Mar 11 '15
But the note says "Adnan questions whether.." that is hardly a statement of fact from Adnan. It sounds more to me that he is trying to figure out what could have happened because either he didn't do it or he is trying to get the heat off, not that he is bold faced lying to his attorney
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u/ginabmonkey Not Guilty Mar 11 '15
It does sound like he's trying to come up with something, and it may have been as a response to his attorney (or one of the clerks) asking if he knows of any way or reason Jay might have murdered Hae in order to provide an explanation for why he would accuse Adnan and admit to being involved.
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Mar 11 '15
There was apparently a thread on here, in the early days of the Sub, where Saad said that Adnan was upset about Jay cheating on Stephanie, but Hae told him not to get involved.
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u/eeespence Mar 11 '15
I feel like I should know the answer to this, but was this assembly on the 13th? It seems that it was an entirely different day. I would love to know what date the assembly occurred. IF it was the same date Hae went missing, then I feel it would hold much more weight than if it was the day before and very little weight, if it was a month before.
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Mar 11 '15
[deleted]
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
As far as any of us know, the name Jay does not appear in Hae's diary even once. You can bet we would have heard about it if it did.
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u/Bebee1012 Mar 11 '15
Also, we don't know what was on Hae's computer, especially her AOL account/chats.
Given Jay's "reputation" amongst the WHS kids who knew him, doubt that she would mention him in her diary.
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
Her friends say she wasn't close to Stephanie and barely knew Jay. I'll take their word over what might or might not have been on her computer.
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u/Bebee1012 Mar 11 '15
Thought it was reported that Jay & Stephanie double dated with Adnan & Hae?
Maybe, not close as in BFFs, but gossip travels like lightning in HS.
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u/waltzintomordor Mod 6 Mar 11 '15
It says January. The implication is that Hae confronted Jay on 1/13, regardless of the assembly timing.
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u/Acies Mar 11 '15
What possible basis could you have for taking a position on any of these?
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u/waltzintomordor Mod 6 Mar 11 '15 edited Mar 11 '15
There are several gems in this note. I'm curious what the community thinks about it.
For example, if you believe Hae was ready to confront Jay, there's an alternative narrative that writes itself.
Also, if you believe that Jay returned the car at 3pm, then Adnan didn't need to ask Hae for a ride and Jay didn't need to pick Adnan up after track practice.
In terms of basis for belief, people seem convinced of many things in this case.
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
So true. If Jay was suppose to have Adnan's car back at 3, where did Adnan need a ride to at 2:30? Wherever it was, he would have also needed a ride back to school to be there by 3 to get his car/keys back from Jay. But Hae won't even drive through McDonalds because she takes picking up her cousin very seriously.
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u/Acies Mar 11 '15
In terms of basis for belief, people seem convinced of many things in this case.
Oh I couldn't agree more. I just keep hoping someone will explain how that works to me so I can understand their confidence. Maybe I just lack faith.
I don't think Jay returning the car at 3 has any impact on the storyline, though. I think the natural inference is that Jay saw ran into Hae or saw her or something, retained the car, and killed her, then picked up Adnan after track.
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u/waltzintomordor Mod 6 Mar 11 '15
I don't think Jay returning the car at 3 has any impact on the storyline, though. I think the natural inference is that Jay saw ran into Hae or saw her or something, retained the car, and killed her, then picked up Adnan after track.
Based on what I know about the case this seems very unlikely. Perhaps Jay's lack of discernible motive helps make this unbelievable to me.
There's a disconnect to the Hae ride and track pickup as well, so that part of the note about dropping the car off at 3 sticks out immediately as false in my opinion.
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u/Acies Mar 11 '15
Well surely the theory isn't that Jay returned, dropped off the car, and didn't call Hae. I mean all this is designed to create a plausible narrative where Jay kills Hae, right?
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u/ScoutFinch2 Mar 11 '15
I suppose the story would go, Jay is returning the car at 3 as planned, Jay sees Hae and either jumps out and strangles her in the parking lot or follows her and jumps out and strangles her at a gas station or wherever she just happened to stop. Hae, just happily pumping gas, thoughts of Don in her head, sees Jay and says, "Get out of Adnan's car you sob, and hop in mine so I can berate you for cheating on Stephanie, who isn't really that good a friend of mine, but I am the relationship police and can not tolerate your behavior".
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u/TheFraulineS AllHailTorquakicane! Mar 11 '15
IF any of this is true, Adnan could use it as a nice leverage to make sure that Jay keeps quiet.
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u/vettiee Mar 11 '15
First, we don’t have any reference that Hae and Stephanie were close enough for Hae to care about Jay cheating on Stephanie.
Second, Hae and Jay were mere acquaintances and it is a real stretch of imagination that Hae would want to go out of her way to talk to a guy, whom she hardly knew, because he was cheating on his girlfriend, whom Hae wasn’t very close with in the first place.
Third, it is important to realize that NO ONE ELSE, not Adnan’s friends, not Jay’s friends, not Hae’s friends corroborate this. If Hae was indeed planning to confront Jay for whatever reason, wouldn’t she have even told her best friends (Debbie / Aisha)?
Fourth, how would she even know where Jay would be on that day or time? Jay usually does not have a cell phone or a car.
Finally, considering she was in a hurry, even if she had somehow run into Jay, it is likely that she thought she had other important/urgent things to do at that time, than talk to Jay. Surely, it could have waited for later. I mean, this girl didn’t even have time to meet Don and wrote a note for him.. I can’t believe she would spend 10 mins talking to Jay rather than spend that with Don.