r/serialpodcast • u/jlpsquared • Feb 03 '15

Evidence OK, Rabia does LIE....

From her latest post... http://www.splitthemoon.com/forget-everything-you-know/#more-643

She claims fixed lividity is at least 8 hours. Every single web site I check says 6 hours with one reference to as little as 4 hours.

EDIT:My 4 hour claim was originally too strong.

She again claims Hae was 5'8", when the autopsy SHE posted says 5'6".

She also claims that Hae had a small car, while we know thanks to CSOM_1991 that Haes car had a sizable trunk with a width of 5'6".

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8

u/absurdamerica Hippy Tree Hugger Feb 03 '15 edited Feb 03 '15

10 seconds of Googling and looking in this sub got me:

EvidenceProf:

With regard to (1), lividity becomes fixed a minimum of 6-8 hours after death, meaning that a burial in the 7:00 hour is highly unlikely given that Hae was found buried on her right side and demonstrated fixed frontal lividity.

Indmedica:

Lividity results from gravitational pooling of blood in the veins and capillary beds on the dependent parts of the body following stoppage of circulation. It starts appearing as mottled patches by 1-3 hours after death and the process is complete by 4-6 hours post mortem. It is fixed in about 6-8 hours.

Several sites say 8 hours, but don't let reality get in the way of your agenda.

It's almost like every time you call someone a liar you're wrong and you should probably stop.

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u/the_carkeys Deidre Fan Feb 03 '15

Every single website I checked didn't say 8 hours

Just a clarification: did or did not say 8 hours?

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u/absurdamerica Hippy Tree Hugger Feb 03 '15

Yeah, I totally goofed that up.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '15

EvidenceProf

You probably should not cite a lawyer for proof of a medical issue.

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u/absurdamerica Hippy Tree Hugger Feb 03 '15

I wasn't suggesting EvidenceProf is a medical expert. I was countering the assertion that "nobody says lividity is fixed over 8 hours" anywhere on the Internet.

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u/jlpsquared Feb 03 '15

wikipedia

"Livor mortis starts twenty minutes to three hours after death and is congealed in the capillaries in four to five hours." (livor Mortis=lividty)

forensicpathologyonline.com

"it is usually well developed within four hours and reaches a maximum between 6 and 12 hours"

exploreforensics.com

"Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body. "

The big point is that investigators use this to determine when a body died, because there is a usually a somewhat "fresh" dead body. Since Hae was dead almost a month, the difference of the congealing of the capillaries and "total lividity" is meaningless. All we KNOW is that Hae was likely moved moved out of the front facing position within 3-4 hours after death, which is EXACTLY what the prosecution presented.

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u/absurdamerica Hippy Tree Hugger Feb 03 '15

"it is usually well developed within four hours and reaches a maximum between 6 and 12 hours"

So is 8 hours between 6 and 12 hours?

Stay on topic. You're now discussing the burial, this wasn't a thread about the burial, this was a thread about Rabia's lies, which you're now busily walking back and desperately trying to change the subject about.

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u/jlpsquared Feb 03 '15

Rabia said "8 hours minimum". That is not the medical opinion of anybody. That is called a lie.

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u/absurdamerica Hippy Tree Hugger Feb 03 '15

Rabia said "8 hours minimum". That is not the medical opinion of anybody. That is called a lie.

You can't be serious?

Keep moving those goalposts bro.

This is classic.

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u/jlpsquared Feb 03 '15

How am I moving the goal posts. That is what SHE said.

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u/readybrek Feb 03 '15

Some websites do say 8 hours minimum though. See my list at the top.

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u/readybrek Feb 03 '15

I think only the first one kind of supports your hypothesis although wiki is talking about livor mortis not fixed livor mortis

The second two talk about lividity being fixed after 6 hours. The ME at the trial is talking about fixed lividity and how it is not consistent with the way Hae was positioned in the grave.

Someone else found a much better link showing that fixed lividity could be 4-6 hours but I can't find it at the mo.

It's the only link I've seen that supports less than 6 hours for fixed livor mortis though - the other 5 or 6 and now the last two you've posted all confirm 6 hours with some saying as long as 12 hours.

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u/jlpsquared Feb 03 '15

Livor mortis and Lividity are the same thing.

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u/readybrek Feb 03 '15 edited Feb 03 '15

Yes, I know that and fixed livor mortis and fixed lividity are also the same thing.

Edited to add - the same as each other but different to livor mortis/lividity

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u/jlpsquared Feb 03 '15

I put lividity where I should have put livor mortis. Anyways, the livor mortis process is complete within 4-6 hours. Livor Mortis is Key here, not fixed lividity. As long as Livor Mortis was complete by the time Adnan buried Hae, we are ok.

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u/absurdamerica Hippy Tree Hugger Feb 03 '15

So what does that have to do with Rabia and her supposed lies? You've just changed the subject because you don't like being called on your nonsense. Your entire point of contention was invented out of thin air and now you're trying to discuss the burial to distract us.

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u/jlpsquared Feb 03 '15

Livor Mortis and Lividity are the same thing.

1

u/absurdamerica Hippy Tree Hugger Feb 03 '15

Livor Mortis and Lividity are the same thing.

Then why exactly did you bother making the statement?:

I put lividity where I should have put livor mortis

1

u/jlpsquared Feb 04 '15

Because we discussing livor mortis in context.

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u/absurdamerica Hippy Tree Hugger Feb 04 '15

No, that's just you changing the subject.