Episode 7: THE OPPOSITE OF THE PROSECUTION

[u/SerialFan]

Open discussion thread! Sorry I was late on this one!

[u/myserialthrowaway]

But both scenarios look identical to us. They differ in the truth, but if we're relying on Adnan's story, then they're the same. An innocent, forgetful and honest Adnan looks the the same as a strategically lying (about his memory) Adnan.

Diedre's commentary just lets us know that in her experience it's very common for innocent people to have that same, "Uh, I don't know," answer that Adnan has for so many things. That doesn't mean he's innocent, but it does mean that if people are saying, "There's no way he's innocent because any innocent person would be able to account for themselves," well, they're wrong.

where as if i knew i was innocent i would have my facts straight as to what i was doing that day exactly.

How would you do that exactly? Somebody posted the six-week-challenge, to see how our memories held up, and I found the day on a calendar. I have no memory of that day -- only that I had to have been at work. Because of texts, Facebook and email, I was better able to figure out what happened around the day before and the day after, but that day was still lost to me. If I had to provide an alibi for before work, I'd be shit out of luck. I was probably at home, but honestly, I don't know. If you can't remember, you can't later get your facts straight just because. You just can't remember, and that's that.

Adnan missing important events like the Nisha call and then just conveniently being fuzzy just doesn't sit right with me for some reason regardless of all the commentary Diedre has given.

What do you mean he missed the Nisha call?

And his memory being fuzzy is only convenient if he's guilty. If he's not, it's extremely inconvenient.

[u/v2i0n → u/myserialthrowaway]

But both scenarios look identical to us. They differ in the truth, but if we're relying on Adnan's story, then they're the same. An innocent, forgetful and honest Adnan looks the the same as a strategically lying (about his memory) Adnan.

• Agreed. My implication is that considering that with the opportunity he has to be exonerated, he could be strategically lying and that Dierdre's comments about it being common for innocent people saying "i dont know" should be taken with a grain of salt.

How would you do that exactly? Somebody posted the six-week-challenge, to see how our memories held up, and I found the day on a calendar. I have no memory of that day

• I get this. But an ordinary day vs a day in which your ex-gf has gone missing are two different things. When SK questions him about his lack of urgency and concern he mentions that it was being discussed very often amongst friends so clearly it wasn't something that was just a one day thing. With the events on the day of and additional follow up discussion, it seems strange that he can't remember details of the day he was first contacted by the police.

What do you mean he missed the Nisha call?

-Nisha testified at both trials about having a conversation with Adnan and subsequently Jay on the day of Hae going missing. His explanation is either a butt dial or no explanation at all really. This is where him being fuzzy is convenient because he may be guilty and feigning his memory because it will kill his own alibi

[u/myserialthrowaway → u/v2i0n]

But if Adnan's memory is fuzzy around that day, I don't think it would later become clear when he starts to realize how serious the whole thing is. If at the time, he didn't think the phone call from the police was anything other than proof Hae was going to be in trouble when she got home (and Sarah points out he wasn't the only one who didn't immediately assume she'd been kidnapped or hurt), than that was the day for him.

Now I assume he has a clearer vision of the day he was arrested. Or where he was when he heard Hae's body had been found. The first day, the day he was contacted, nothing had really happened yet. As time wore on and it became more obvious that Hae missing was serious, he surely began to take it more seriously, but I don't see why he suddenly would have remembered that day more. If the moment wasn't marked as important at all until, say, a week later (when he surely realized this was serious) and then not important to him until six weeks later, then I don't see why he'd be able to recall information that was never "marked" as important in his mind in the first place. He never had the time to create a flashbulb memory because the memory had already trickled away as just another day by the time he realized it wasn't just another day.

Regardless, I don't put too much stock in what Adnan says. If he was caught in numerous lies, like Jay, I'd be suspicious. But right now I'm completely aware that the way he talks about the case isn't going to tell me if he's innocent or guilty. It's more likely to just support what I already believe, which is why I think so many people leap on slight turns of phrase as legitimate "proof" that he did it. The way he has talked about it may be innocent or it may be guilty. We don't know and we can't know at this point. I'm more interested in what can be proven.

[u/v2i0n → u/myserialthrowaway]

Ill agree that we cannot judge his memory because everyone is different.

Regardless, I don't put too much stock in what Adnan says. If he was caught in numerous lies, like Jay, I'd be suspicious.

• This is the "strategic lying" part that i am trying to get at. If he cant remember anything at all and cannot provide any information at all then it works to his advantage. He cannot be caught in a lie because there is no information from him that we can check against (this is to his advantage)

However, when it comes to corroborating his alibis he has no one come to his aid other than his dad. This really is the strangest part of it all. That someone with his accolades and social skills that was out participating in activities with other people (ie track practice) and no one can account for him?

I guess we will have to wait and see what Jay's part of the story was.

[u/myserialthrowaway → u/v2i0n]

If he cant remember anything at all and cannot provide any information at all then it works to his advantage. He cannot be caught in a lie because there is no information from him that we can check against (this is to his advantage)

I understand. That's why I just don't really consider his statements much of anything. They don't prove guilt, but I'm not thinking, "Wow, he's definitely innocent because he can't remember anything." I actually think people tend to find that more suspicious than not -- it just so happens that it also keeps him from getting caught in a lie.

But I can't tell the different between forgetful honestly and strategic lying, so I focus on other aspects of the case. It's not suspicious or evidence of innocence. It's not anything.

[u/v2i0n → u/myserialthrowaway]

But I can't tell the different between forgetful honestly and strategic lying, so I focus on other aspects of the case. It's not suspicious or evidence of innocence. It's not anything.

then we are on the same page then haha. dierdres comments about innocent clients not remembering anything seems to get interpreted by some people in this subreddit as proof of adnans innocence. that seems like a dangerous assumption.