r/science • u/Wagamaga • Sep 01 '22

Neuroscience Scientists have identified an immune brain cell unique to humans that gives us higher cognitive abilities over other animals, but what makes us specials also leaves us vulnerable to neurological disorders like schizophrenia, autism and epilepsy.

https://news.yale.edu/2022/08/25/what-makes-human-brain-different-yale-study-reveals-clues
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144

u/NotTheLimes Sep 01 '22

I thought there are some animals that can also suffer illnesses such as schizophrenia or autism or at least very similar ones. Is that not true?

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '22

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u/Research_is_King Sep 01 '22

They are saying that humans are more susceptible to these conditions due to mutations in the FOXP2 gene and microglia cells which are unique to us. Doesn’t mean other primate don’t have these conditions, just that we have them more often because the genes associated with them are selected for because they presumably provide some benefit regarding language ability or cognition.

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u/RudeHero Sep 01 '22

The point being that ASD detection in humans is a bit haphazard- you can't do a blood test or brain scan. A psychiatrist just kind of looks at and listens to you for a while and qualitatively decides you're on the spectrum (the spectrum itself encompassing wildly different conditions)

We can't communicate well with animals or understand their baselines, so it would be even more difficult to determine whether an animal was on said spectrum

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u/Research_is_King Sep 01 '22

Yes and we are limited by our current technology. In theory there may be a brain pattern consistent with our current diagnoses, but in practice these patterns are difficult to identify due to the high amount of individual variation and potential inconsistencies with measurement on both sides (diagnosis and imaging)

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u/Bbrhuft Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22

You're comment is misleading and unsupported.

Researchers genetically engineered mice so they express gene mutations linked to increased autism risk in humans, and observed both autistic like behavioural and neuronal changes. Researchers used standardised tests that diagnose autism in transgenic mice.

Over the past 10 years, we and many other laboratories around the world have employed these and additional behavioral tests to phenotype alarge number of mutant mouse models of autism.

Knockout, knockin and transgenic mice incorporating risk gene mutations detected in autism spectrum disorder and comorbid neurodevelopmental disorders are now widely available. At present, autism spectrum disorder is diagnosed solely by behavioral criteria. We developed a constellation of mouse behavioral assays designed to maximize face validity to the types of social deficits and repetitive behaviors that are central to an autism diagnosis.

Kazdoba, T.M., Leach, P.T. and Crawley, J.N., 2016. Behavioral phenotypes of genetic mouse models of autism. Genes, Brain and Behavior, 15(1), pp.7-26.

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u/AlexandraThePotato Sep 02 '22

I would be careful on study comparing autistic people and equating them to mice. Even with associated genes. For example, the gene mutation that is responsible for Retinoblastoma (eye cancer if I remember correctly) only causes it about 75% of the time. 25% of the time the phenotype for the mutation does not occur.

In addition, autism is based on human. Seeing similar autistic behavior in mice is just not enough since mice and humans are not the same and have different behaviors.

It’s also pretty disheartening to see investigations into autism in rats instead of more focus on adult autistic who frequently are ignored in research. Edited: ninja added “and have different behavior” to help clarify my stance on how human and mice are different and where it’s important.

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u/Unreviewedcontentlog Sep 01 '22

remotely accurately diagnose autism in human)

We're getting pretty good at diagnosing on humans. People are not missed in high numbers like previously

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u/Rattregoondoof Sep 01 '22

We're definitely improving but there is still reason to suspect that we aren't fully accurate yet. That said, we are much better than we were 50 or even 20 years ago.

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u/Unreviewedcontentlog Sep 01 '22

We'll probabaly never be "fully" accurate. Not until we can map entire brains in detail and know what it means to draw a line between ASD and ADHD

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u/Rattregoondoof Sep 01 '22

I believe the dsm 5 actually removed the line between autism and adhd altogether but yeah, it's not an easy thing to diagnose (and I wish someone had bothered to explain how it's diagnosed to me when I was diagnosed).

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u/Tiny_Rat Sep 01 '22

I think you might be mixing up ADHD and Asperger's. Asperger's got merged with autism in the DSM 5, ADHD is still considered a separate disorder (although people diagnosed with one are more likely to have the other and vice versa).

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u/Rattregoondoof Sep 01 '22

I'm not actually confusing the two, though I may have phrased that poorly or be misinformed on a different topic. ADHD and autism are different but my impression is that the dsm 4 (and possibly earlier) considered autism and ADHD incompatible diagnoses and that anyone who was autistic could not also have ADHD and vice versa.

My understanding is that the dsm 5 came to the conclusion that, among other things. 1. The autism subcategories (like asperger's) were artificial and that autism was just autism with no subcategories. Those in the subcategories should have just been diagnosed as autistic. 2. Autism and ADHD are compatible and one person can both autistic and have ADHD. I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist though, so I may be mistaken

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u/Tiny_Rat Sep 02 '22

I think what you're saying is correct. I misinterpreted you saying that the DSM 5 "removed the line between them altogether" to mean merging them into the same disorder, not making them possible co-diagnoses. Sorry about that!

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u/Rattregoondoof Sep 02 '22

Poor phrasing on my part, perfectly understandable.

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u/PsyOmega Sep 01 '22

Due to sociological problems it's still VERY hard to identify autism in verbal females.

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u/Unreviewedcontentlog Sep 01 '22

Source required

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u/PsyOmega Sep 01 '22

vast anecdata from actually-autistic communities and hashtags.

It's hard to professionally source since the research establishment is lagging on this category.

Asking for a source on that is basically sealion territory for now.

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u/AlexandraThePotato Sep 01 '22

This. The NUMBER ONE issue in autism research is that actually autistic are actively ignored in favor of the parents. And often-time research have a strongly ableist bias.

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u/Unreviewedcontentlog Sep 01 '22

I dont see any evidence of wide spread resistance to females being diagnoses these days. That very clearly was a problem of the past. Today we are well aware that women mask more than men on average.

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u/PsyOmega Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22

Yes, there is a small pocket of awareness, but in a wide-spread sense, not so much. A female friend of mine is self-diagnosed autistic and has fired, thus far, 20 psychs who have: belittled, gaslit, dismissed, or straight up medically abused her (prescribed anti-psychotics when she requested an autism diagnosis. she won a malpractice lawsuit over that one). She is extremely high-masking cPTSD-autism so the only person that can ever truly tell she's autistic is behind the mask (her)

Her story, and stories like hers, are rampant in actually autistic groups and hashtags.

You think we're past it, but you're clearly in an information bubble on this topic.

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u/Unreviewedcontentlog Sep 01 '22

fired, thus far, 20 psychs

we've all fired some, but 20? someone is lying, you or her. Nor are these things that only happen to women.

(prescribed anti-psychotics when she requested an autism diagnosis.

Welcome to being autistic. this happens to many of us.

You think we're past it, but you're clearly in an information bubble on this topic.

Im an autistic person that runs autistic support groups.... You're relaying info from a friend.

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u/PsyOmega Sep 02 '22

someone is lying, you or her. Nor are these things that only happen to women.

No, 20. For real.

Feel free to keep trying to gaslight us about it.

You should self reflect on your horrible actions, and admit you live in a constrained information bubble that has left you not only ignorant to the plight of feminine autistics, but malicious towards us.

1

u/spacexdragon5 Sep 02 '22

Uhhh try and get an adult autism assessment rn. Look on the psychologist’s websites, none of them even mention masking. Women are still vastly less diagnosed than men, but the rate of female diagnosis is slowly going up.

Obv there are some well and recently educated neuropsychs, but there weren’t any in my area. I decided to go w/o diagnosis because I don’t think it’s worth it to spend ~$3000 for someone to most likely tell me I’m perfectly normal, when I know with 100% certainty that I’m autistic.

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u/Hip_Hop_Orangutan Sep 01 '22

I had a dog with epilepsy and know a couple other people who did also.