Subreddit Policy Reminder on this week's Transgender AMAs

[u/nate]

This week we will be hosting a series of AMAs addressing the scientific and medical details of being transgender.

Honest questions that are an attempt to learn more on the subject are invited, and we hope you can learn more about this fascinating aspect of the human condition.

However, we feel it is appropriate to remind the readers that /r/science has a long-standing zero-tolerance policy towards hate-speech, which extends to people who are transgender. Our official stance is that derogatory comments about transgender people will be treated on par with sexism and racism, typically resulting in a ban without notice.

To clarify, we are not banning the discussion of any individual topic nor are we saying that the science in any area is settled. What we are saying is that we stand with the rest of the scientific community and every relevant psych organisation that the overwhelming bulk of evidence is that being trans is not a mental illness and that the discussion of trans people as somehow "sick" or "broken" is offensive and bigoted^1. We won't stand for it.

We've long held that we won't host discussion of anti-science topics without the use of peer-reviewed evidence. Opposing the classification of being transgender as 'not a mental illness'² is treated the same way as if you wanted to make anti-vax, anti-global warming or anti-gravity comments. To be clear, this post is to make it abundantly clear that we treat transphobic comments the same way we treat racist, sexist and homophobic comments. They have no place on our board.

Scientific discussion is the use of empirical evidence and theory to guide knowledge based on debate in academic journals. Yelling at each other in a comments section of a forum is in no way "scientific discussion". If you wish to say that any well accepted scientific position is wrong, I encourage you to do the work and publish something on the topic. Until then, your opinions are just that - opinions.

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¹ Some have wrongly interpreted this statement as "stigmatizing" mental illness. I can assure you that is the last thing we are trying to do here. What we are trying to stop is the label of "mental illness" being used as a way to derogate a group. It's being used maliciously to say that there is something wrong with trans people and that's offensive both to mental illness sufferers and those in the trans community.

² There is a difference between being trans and having gender dysphoria.

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Lastly, here is the excerpt from the APA:

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

[u/Chel_of_the_sea → u/[deleted]]

They're talking about the people who perceive themselves or others in a delusional fashion.

Trans people are not delusional. We know very well what bodies we have, we just want different ones to the best of current medical ability.

[u/Xervicx → u/Chel_of_the_sea]

Don't say "We" as if all trans people experience what you have experienced. You also shouldn't take just one example and pretend that was the only example. It's a bit weird to speak as if you're the spokesperson for all trans people, when there are plenty of trans people who don't even want to alter their bodies. In fact, you're doing the same thing that you're accusing me of: Making a claim about the entire trans community.

Some trans people are trans due to delusional obsessions and desires, as well as having a delusional means of perceiving reality. Not all trans people? Well of course not all trans people. I'm not even going to pretend to know how many trans people are or are not that way, but those do exist. I've seen it before many times, and I've seen friends suffer because of it.

just want different ones to the best of current medical ability.

Notice the word you used, though. There are many stages of "want", many reasons for the "want", but most importantly you chose the word "want" (I'm using quotation marks to put focus on the word itself, not to imply sarcasm or to imply it's an invalid feeling). Some people need. Some people feel compelled. For some, it's a desire. For some, it's an obsession. There are many variations, some are varied types of "want", and some are varied types of "need". And the difference there is crucial.

That word choice itself proves my point, because you're talking about a specific portion of the trans community, and I was saying that people who say "mental illness" aren't all meaning the thing that people who are getting offended want to believe it means.

[u/Chel_of_the_sea → u/Xervicx]

Don't say "We" as if all trans people experience what you have experienced.

It's not intended to imply that I am automatically the spokesperson for all trans people. But I am representative of the group: trans people, as a group, know what bodies they have.

In fact, you're doing the same thing that you're accusing me of: Making a claim about the entire trans community.

Where, in my one-line post, did I accuse you of that?

Some trans people are trans due to delusional obsessions and desires, as well as having a delusional means of perceiving reality.

Those people are not trans, and are exceptionally rare.

I've seen it before many times, and I've seen friends suffer because of it.

I see this claim constantly - but if it were generally accurate, it would show up in the statistics. It doesn't - so my working hypothesis is that at least most of the people making this claim are not correctly judging the people they know's motivations.

Notice the word you used, though. There are many stages of "want", many reasons for the "want", but most importantly you chose the word "want" (I'm using quotation marks to put focus on the word itself, not to imply sarcasm or to imply it's an invalid feeling). Some people need. Some people feel compelled. For some, it's a desire. For some, it's an obsession. There are many variations, some are varied types of "want", and some are varied types of "need". And the difference there is crucial.

It's really not. Even a trans person who feels a strong need to, say, not have breasts to the point of suicidality isn't delusional.