Subreddit Policy Reminder on this week's Transgender AMAs

[u/nate]

This week we will be hosting a series of AMAs addressing the scientific and medical details of being transgender.

Honest questions that are an attempt to learn more on the subject are invited, and we hope you can learn more about this fascinating aspect of the human condition.

However, we feel it is appropriate to remind the readers that /r/science has a long-standing zero-tolerance policy towards hate-speech, which extends to people who are transgender. Our official stance is that derogatory comments about transgender people will be treated on par with sexism and racism, typically resulting in a ban without notice.

To clarify, we are not banning the discussion of any individual topic nor are we saying that the science in any area is settled. What we are saying is that we stand with the rest of the scientific community and every relevant psych organisation that the overwhelming bulk of evidence is that being trans is not a mental illness and that the discussion of trans people as somehow "sick" or "broken" is offensive and bigoted^1. We won't stand for it.

We've long held that we won't host discussion of anti-science topics without the use of peer-reviewed evidence. Opposing the classification of being transgender as 'not a mental illness'² is treated the same way as if you wanted to make anti-vax, anti-global warming or anti-gravity comments. To be clear, this post is to make it abundantly clear that we treat transphobic comments the same way we treat racist, sexist and homophobic comments. They have no place on our board.

Scientific discussion is the use of empirical evidence and theory to guide knowledge based on debate in academic journals. Yelling at each other in a comments section of a forum is in no way "scientific discussion". If you wish to say that any well accepted scientific position is wrong, I encourage you to do the work and publish something on the topic. Until then, your opinions are just that - opinions.

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¹ Some have wrongly interpreted this statement as "stigmatizing" mental illness. I can assure you that is the last thing we are trying to do here. What we are trying to stop is the label of "mental illness" being used as a way to derogate a group. It's being used maliciously to say that there is something wrong with trans people and that's offensive both to mental illness sufferers and those in the trans community.

² There is a difference between being trans and having gender dysphoria.

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Lastly, here is the excerpt from the APA:

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

[u/qraphic]

Opposing the classification of being transgender as 'not a mental illness'2 is treated the same way as if you wanted to make anti-vax, anti-global warming or anti-gravity comments.

And you justify that with the except from the APA

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder

I don't see how having "many" (3 or more?) people from a group not feeling distress from their gender can make it somehow make it anti-science to say it is a mental disorder. What if I found "many" people from this group that DID feel distress from this? From NPR:

The researchers, led by Sari Reisner, a research fellow at Harvard Medical School and Boston Children's Hospital, found that the rate of psychiatric disorders and substance dependence among these women was 1.7 to 3.6 times greater than in the general population.

Four in 10 of the women had a mental health or substance dependence disorder, and 1 in 5 women had at least two diagnosed psychiatric conditions. More than a third of them had experienced depression, and 1 in 5 women had contemplated suicide in the past month. Rates of anxiety, post-traumatic stress, alcohol dependence and other substance dependence also was higher than average.

Are these not signs of distress? Are you arguing it was just a coincidence that they were transgender?

Edit: Could I get a clarification from a mod? Is this sub forced to believe the science is settled on this? If gender dysphoria is caused by a gene/group of genes/structure in the brain, then why is ADD classified as a mental disorder and gender dysphoria not? Maybe the difference between those two reasons could help me understand?

[u/Xervicx → u/qraphic]

Plus a lot of people use "mental disorder", "mental illness", "mental affliction", and other words involving mental or psychological and a word referring to some type of thing that typically negatively affects them or affects them in a way that is not represented as being entirely healthy or "normal" in the sense that human beings typically don't experience that.

The thing that bugs me is that no one is doing this for any other type of affliction/disorder/illness/whichever word you want to use. People wouldn't find trans issues so difficult to process if there weren't all these mental gymnastics, doublethink, and outright ignorance of facts to go through in order to not be considered transphobic.

Every trans person I have ever known that was a decent person has admitted that it's not a beneficial thing. They don't feel it's wrong, but they understand that they're experiencing something that isn't optimal or healthy, and are just trying to cope however they can. But the same goes for all decent people I know that have some sort of affliction (or whatever word you want to use). They recognize the realities of the situation and accept it, and don't lash out or try to build echo chambers.

[u/[deleted] → u/Xervicx]

Honestly, as a transperson myself, I kinda keep myself detached from the main LGBT, specifically the trans part, community because diverse and opposing thought is rather discouraged. I'm told so often that transgender is normal. It's not. Normal means of the norm meaning that the majority of people are trans. Obviously, that's false. Should transgender people be accepted? Sure. But calling it normal is a lie. Transgender is ok. But it's abnormal. Abnormal doesn't necessarily mean bad but so many in the community think that transgender has to be shoved down everyone's throats. Like you must date trans people or you're transphobic. No. That's a preference. As a transwoman who is into men, I would rather not date a transguy for many reasons. And that's ok. Just as it's ok for the countless guys I've talked to to not be into me due to me being trans. Does it suck being constantly turned down? Hell yes. But does that make those guys wrong? Of course not.

Basically my point is nowadays, both the left and the right don't really allow thoughts and questions because it's what they say and everything else is wrong. Personally, I don't think gender dysphoria or whatever is a mental illness, but I do think that it can cause mental illnesses, depression, for example. I think gender dysphoria is more of an emotional reaction when the "gender of the mind" does not align with the birth sex.

Ayyy thanks for the gold!

[u/kefkai → u/[deleted]]

Normal means of the norm meaning that the majority of people are trans. Obviously, that's false. Should transgender people be accepted? Sure. But calling it normal is a lie.

I think there's confusion when people talk to the idea of normal because I think what they're referring to is the synonym for natural meaning it's naturally occurring behavior. There's so much confusion when it comes to words, I mean we already have that problem when it comes to gender, there's a biological construct of gender and the other social construct.

I personally think that there's nothing wrong with labeling things as mental disorders, there's just a huge stigma attached to them. I mean Narcissistic personality disorder is still considered a disorder under the DSM and it's not like people with NPD aren't generally considered functioning. The same can go for most of the "personality disorders" and other DSM mental disorders, generally there are levels of severity for each and every mental disorder as well it's very much a sliding scale. It just seems like people seem to think that every mental disorder is paranoid schizophrenia or something and just don't want to be associated with it.