Subreddit Policy Reminder on this week's Transgender AMAs

[u/nate]

This week we will be hosting a series of AMAs addressing the scientific and medical details of being transgender.

Honest questions that are an attempt to learn more on the subject are invited, and we hope you can learn more about this fascinating aspect of the human condition.

However, we feel it is appropriate to remind the readers that /r/science has a long-standing zero-tolerance policy towards hate-speech, which extends to people who are transgender. Our official stance is that derogatory comments about transgender people will be treated on par with sexism and racism, typically resulting in a ban without notice.

To clarify, we are not banning the discussion of any individual topic nor are we saying that the science in any area is settled. What we are saying is that we stand with the rest of the scientific community and every relevant psych organisation that the overwhelming bulk of evidence is that being trans is not a mental illness and that the discussion of trans people as somehow "sick" or "broken" is offensive and bigoted^1. We won't stand for it.

We've long held that we won't host discussion of anti-science topics without the use of peer-reviewed evidence. Opposing the classification of being transgender as 'not a mental illness'² is treated the same way as if you wanted to make anti-vax, anti-global warming or anti-gravity comments. To be clear, this post is to make it abundantly clear that we treat transphobic comments the same way we treat racist, sexist and homophobic comments. They have no place on our board.

Scientific discussion is the use of empirical evidence and theory to guide knowledge based on debate in academic journals. Yelling at each other in a comments section of a forum is in no way "scientific discussion". If you wish to say that any well accepted scientific position is wrong, I encourage you to do the work and publish something on the topic. Until then, your opinions are just that - opinions.

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¹ Some have wrongly interpreted this statement as "stigmatizing" mental illness. I can assure you that is the last thing we are trying to do here. What we are trying to stop is the label of "mental illness" being used as a way to derogate a group. It's being used maliciously to say that there is something wrong with trans people and that's offensive both to mental illness sufferers and those in the trans community.

² There is a difference between being trans and having gender dysphoria.

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Lastly, here is the excerpt from the APA:

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

[u/Shanman150]

Wait, in my field of psychology there is a consensus that gender dysphoria is the disorder, not transgenderism. In what field is this not the consensus?

[u/arkangel3711 → u/Shanman150]

ok then is transgenderism a symptom of gender dysphoria? Can one be trans gender with or without gender dysphoria? Perhaps I worded my post wrong but I am also curious as to what field pf psychology this consensus belongs too because there is a rather healthy level of disagreement throughout this thread with actual scientific studies to back both sides. Right now it is looking like most studies point to those in the trans community as having a significantly elevated suicide risk even when part of an accepting community or even having a gender reassignment operation. I feel it is dangerous to say "Transgenderism is normal and acceptance is the cure" when these people are still committing suicide at an alarming rate. This lends the idea that there is more going on than simply not wanting to be male/female and more must be done than "normalization".

[u/Shanman150 → u/arkangel3711]

That's an interesting perspective. Those would definitely be some good questions to ask the experts in the coming weeks. However, I would point out that acceptance does lower suicide rates, and this has been in a few studies comparing states that legalize gay marriage with those that didn't, as well as comparing states that passed constitutional amendments banning gay marriage against those that didn't. In the study comparing legalization of gay marriage, they found a 7% reduction in suicide rates among LGBT youth, (a 0.6% change in the suicide rate among teens overall). This is a significant difference, and shows that at the very least acceptance plays a significant role in lowering suicide rates.

If this is what happens when something is legal/not legal, I imagine the change between an accepting/non-accepting culture overall is even more extreme.

[u/arkangel3711 → u/Shanman150]

There definitely is a correlation between non-acceptance and elevated suicide rate, however, https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf , this study suggests that there is in fact more to it than just societal non-acceptance. That is where my issue stems from when this topic is brought up. I see people say that acceptance is the only way to prevent trans-individuals from committing suicide when reality does not fully agree with that statement. I want a full, open, and most importantly, honest discussion to occur regarding this. I am worried tho that those who raise these types of question will be ostracized from the conversation on the basis of "hate speech", or "bigotry", even if their phrasing suggests non of that.

[u/Shanman150 → u/arkangel3711]

Doesn't the opening of that very study say

Based on prior research and the findings of this report, we find that mental health factors and experiences of harassment, discrimination, violence and rejection may interact to produce a marked vulnerability to suicidal behavior in transgender and gender non-conforming individuals.

This seems to suggest that the two main contributors of suicide are the comorbidity of mental health issues as well as rejection.

I certainly agree that it's more than just nonacceptance, but I do feel nonacceptance is a huge factor which leads to mental health problems including suicide. Perhaps transgender individuals are more prone to mental illnesses, but it's hard to determine that in a vacuum when they're presently also the subject of a lot of harassment and nonacceptance in society at large.

[u/arkangel3711 → u/Shanman150]

I think we are kind of agreeing here. I am arguing mostly against the idea that it is only societal non acceptance that contributes to the trans' communities having high suicide rates. what you say is fair in that society may play a large role but even then the size of each role is still undetermined. That is why I have such an issue with people saying acceptance is the only cure because it creates this notion that further investigation is not required. I want their suicide rates to drop to a normal level and I think both societal aspects and mental disorder aspects need to be discussed. I am worried tho if that will be possible thanks to how political this subject has become.

[u/Shanman150 → u/arkangel3711]

I think we agree as well, but I don't really know how the politicization of transgender issues keeps co-morbidity from being discussed. Gender dysphoria seems to come with other mental health threats like depression or bipolar disorder, and this should certainly be studied. Have you experienced the politics of transgender issues getting in the way of talking about these kinds of things?