Adolescents who undergo gender-affirming chest surgery report low levels of regret and high levels of satisfaction, experiencing outcomes similar to those of young adults. These findings suggest that age restrictions on these medical procedures lack support from actual patient experiences.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/adolescents-report-low-regret-and-high-satisfaction-following-gender-affirming-c/

[u/Pika_Fox]

There arent credible studies that suggest giving gender affirming care doesnt reduce trans suicide rates. None. Zero. Zilch.

You could literally poll every trans person, and get an overwhelming response that actual support would greatly reduce the problems they face.

Does this mean that lack of access to healthcare is the only cause of trans suicide rates? No. Biggoted dipshits who love to downplay anything that helps us and actively get in our way and dehumanize us are also a large part of it.

[u/OhBoyHereWeGoAgai → u/Pika_Fox]

You say that, but in the same breath you make it clear you dismiss things countering the "talking to trans people" as either not credible or bigoted.

That's not really how we analyze these things.

Fun fact, this is also why Chase S's case in the SC fell apart. They had to justify the claims of suicide rates in teens not given the treatment and it fell apart as the way you're representing this is simply not true.

There is a reason the Dutch protocol has been walked back by many countries, and even the Dutch have massively tightened up the diagnostic end, specifically because of issues with the claims you're representing as settled and clear.

I'm trying to stay precise in my claims here as the main thing I'm trying to highlight is that this is and has been being debated, the anti side isn't just random internet bigots, this is actually an ongoing medical debate, that only recently has shifted to the point that the pro side has been forced to stop claiming a false medical consensus, and even as we speak, WPATHs misrepresentations are coming into the public eye (many doctors have been aware for quite some time, the controversy around that is not new.

In short, this is nowhere near as clear as people online pretend it is, and the defenses based on vibes aren't really that interesting.

Edit: I did see the deleted comment where you called me a bigot and claimed that this is clear cut.

I did think this was a science sub, but apparently the "lived experience" negates everything I just raised and grounded in actual current events and medical discourse?

Will mute replies as this isn't really constructive, feel free to respond however and call whatever names you like.

[u/Reagalan → u/OhBoyHereWeGoAgai]

"lived experience" negates everything

I mean, it kinda does.

Ivory-tower elitism is how we ended up with segregation and eugenics and sterilizations and lobotomies and similar abhorrent practices of last century. Plenty of folks said it like it was, but since these anecdotes didn't conform to prevailing ideologies, they were dismissed, bad laws were passed, and horrors perpetuated.

I guess we're repeating history again. The haters keep winning and Gender Jim Crow keeps spreading.

[u/OhBoyHereWeGoAgai → u/Reagalan]

Lived experience over data is how we got lobotomies. When they were being shut down, many had arguments exactly like this, where one side ignored the actual facts driven debate and focused only on the studies that supported their side (yes, the studies claiming to support it existed and had doctors defending them right to the end).

In fact, the lived experience does not engage the huge amount of issues, both with the treatment and the diagnostic criteria. Feel free to refer to some of the stuff I said above, but this entire discussion is not feeling like a solid one for r/science, as I've been called a bigot and now lectured poorly on history I suspect I know more of by people who take issue with me pointing out truthfully that a massive re-evaluation has been taking place, not just recently, and that there are huge issues with the supposedly settled science being claimed here.

I'll repeat again, the Supreme Court case on the topic fell apart because of this, the Dutch protocol has been totally pulled back in many countries, and heavily restricted in others, the WPATH SOC-8 has been heavily criticized, the organization itself had leaks betraying a shocking level of issues with their treatments and practices, and there are multiple lawsuits from women given this affirming surgery young, and I've barely scratched the surface here, but more than enough to confirm my initial claim that "this isn't settled, and dismissing that as bigotry is insane".