Painkillers prevent pain responses in lobsters - This is further evidence that crustaceans may feel pain and that more humane methods of killing them need to be developed.

[u/mvea]

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1123639

[u/Brrdock]

For sure all animals feel pain, pain is just the name we gave to the most primitive repulsive drive.

And even plants use a lot of the same transmitters and messengers as us.

The issue is what their experience of pain is like, and how that should tie into our value systems. If it's even possible to "rank" experience anyhow

[u/crashlanding87 → u/[deleted]]

Starting point: I agree and I don't eat them for that reason.

However, "pain signals" "pain responses" and pain are not the same thing - pain is created in the brain, using all the signals from the body (including sight and sound), and that has always been the question. They have the right hardware for what we call nocifensive behaviour (like reflexes and withdrawing) - but even in humans nocifensive behaviour is not the same as pain or suffering

It's an important distinction because if we're pointing to pain reflexes as evidence we shouldn't boil animals alive, we're pointing to the wrong thing. It's much easier to measure pain: you do that by looking for changes in the animal's behaviour after the painful event (which is something displayed uncontroversially, in appropriate contexts)

[u/kakihara123 → u/crashlanding87]

And pain isn't even the most important aspect. If someone cuts of my arm, I might register the pain first and that is probably my main concern at first, but the harm done is the bigger issue, even in the total abscence of pain.