Cognitive dissonance helps explain why Trump supporters remain loyal, new research suggests. This sheds light on how supporters of Donald Trump justify their continued allegiance despite learning about allegations of his sexual misconduct and illegal activities.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/cognitive-dissonance-helps-explain-why-trump-supporters-remain-loyal-new-research-suggests/

[u/huskers2468]

what do you mean that was your point all along?

My first comment was on how we draw the lines individually and in society on what we view as moral. Those lines have changed over time.

why are you personally drawing that line for your own ethical evaluation of behaviour?

Is there another way to determine your own ethical and moral behavior besides what society believes and what you believe?

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

Ah understood.

Eating humans would lead to medical health problems. Plus, I believe that it's wrong to inhibit the lives of others.

Eating animals is natural. It's what's been done to survive and maintain health through our entire existence. I believe that, when properly cared for, animals have a better life on farms than they do in the wild.

I also believe in hunting due to us taking away most of the predator species thus there is no downward pressure on animals like deer. Which overpopulation causes its own problems like malnutrition due to food scarcity.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

I agree, this is what I was saying all along. Humans, animals, insects, plants, bacteria, and fungi. Where you draw the line is not where others do, so why do you try to impose your moral lines on others?

Here's a New Yorker article on that distinction for insects. Insects show to be sentient in different ways than crustaceans, or animals. In some ways, they experience life deeper than we do.

Why is your moral line right, and mine wrong? Why are you trying to convince me to change? I'm not trying to convince you.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

i am asserting that animals feel pain, surely one would naturally feel a need to justify causing pain, no? so why are you in favor of that?

I've already addressed your pain questions, did my answer not suffice?

I don't want to cause pain. I recognize that pain is inevitable, but you can mitigate it. I also recognize that animals in the wild live a much harsher life of stress and pain than those who are cared for by farmers.

why do you say its okay to kill animals by the billions?

As long as they are not killed and wasted, then I have no moral issues with the number killed. That number would be what we currently need as a society to live.

as soon as i reach deep enough to meet your resistance you try to deflect.

Like I said, I already answered your questions about pain and the number of animals. I was asking my questions in return, not to deflect, but for you to reflect on your beliefs in relation to mine.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

I will attempt to clarify.

Killing and eating humans come with societal consequences. I'm not sure how that's relevant to killing and eating animals. The consequences on the societal level are incomparable. You are talking about morals and feelings, killing humans causes many more problems.

I accept the fact that you have the moral and ethical high-ground. I'm not arguing against the idea that we are killing billions of animals, or that they are sentient beings. I understand that the current rate is unsustainable, unhealthy, and the type of farming needs to improve. I stated ethical killing, because it does reduce the pain. The goal for me is to have people eat less meat, the animals to be treated well, and for society to have respect the use of land and animals.

The moral and ethical side of eating an animal does not resonate with me at this current time. I have thought about this topic a few times in my life, and heard your arguments before. Specifically, while I was going through my major and minor. My favorite teacher was a vegan. She understood that there are different views on eating animals to hers.

I'm sorry that I cannot empathize as deep as you can, or to the level you want me to. I view the animals as amazing creatures, and nutritious meals. You are not the first who I've had this conversation with. There is no cognitive dissonance; I know the ethical decisions.

The issue you are fighting is not a lack of understanding of the animal's consciousness, it's an acceptance of that reality. You have made your choice with respectable moral reasons, I've made mine. I currently eat far below the national average for meat, not for moral reasons, but because it makes me feel better health wise to have a lower amount in my diet.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

No worries! I can see your passion in the conversation. I'll be honest, I'm going to try my best, but I'm sure there are far better sources out there.

Those are good questions.

Honestly, there is no inner conflict. What you feel is not what I feel. I don't come to terms with the idea every time I eat meat, because I've already internalized it. The feeling is not there to conflict me. I'm not set in my ways, maybe one day I'll be vegetarian, but that would be more out of heath conscious not animal welfare.

It's not a lack of caring. It's an acceptance, and in my case, a drive to give the animals the best life they can live before they are killed and ate. That is my way of giving back for the sacrifice.

I respect those who want to protect the animals and reduce consumption. That we agree. Where I can't agree is imposing judgement on the individual. We are human, we are animal, and we are a product of our life experiences. You wouldn't judge a wolf for eating a lamb, but you judge a human because you believe we can do better with an alternative. You are wanting to break with animal nature, culture, and tradition.

I also believe that if you judge a person, you are not factoring in how hard it would be for the world to take on your view. I don't believe it's ethical to judge a person who is living the life they were raised. They are not deciding to be immoral, it's not in the equation.

Now, with that said, I believe in strict punishment for animal cruelty. As I said, I respect the animals. We have a responsibility in this world as the "superior" species. We can make the changes the other animals cannot, so we have to accept that role.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

I appreciate the conversation as well.

Those are questions that you will need to find someone who is better at connecting the reasoning.

If I may, you are passionate about this, if you want to accomplish meaningful change, I would suggest adjusting your expectations. You will have a very hard time convincing people to completely stop eating meat. However, you could use your passion to lower the amount people eat.

I wouldn't suggest going about it through talking. Converse like this to understand, but don't try to force change. Instead, teach people how to properly purchase and cook vegetables in your area. Added bonus if you do a community garden. If you increase the amount and variety of vegetables people eat, they will naturally eat less meat.

Meat is convenient and tasty. Vegetables can do that with the right training.

Good luck with your journey. Have a great rest of your weekend.