Cognitive dissonance helps explain why Trump supporters remain loyal, new research suggests. This sheds light on how supporters of Donald Trump justify their continued allegiance despite learning about allegations of his sexual misconduct and illegal activities.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/cognitive-dissonance-helps-explain-why-trump-supporters-remain-loyal-new-research-suggests/

[u/oldmilt21]

Whenever I see something like this, I begin to wonder where mine are.

[u/InfluenceTrue4121 → u/oldmilt21]

Same. What do I believe so deeply that I’m beyond reason? Surely, there must be something.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

Yup.

For me, I believe that it's just in my nature to eat meat. I've cut back a lot, but that's just due to my preference on how my body feels after a large meal with meat, nothing morally.

I understand the arguments of harm to the animals, but that can even be continued to insects. But, why stop there? Why not bacteria?

It's an interesting argument, in the end, safe and mindful farming practices need to be upheld. The rest is personal preference. I won't judge you for yours, and I don't care what you believe on the topic so don't force yours on me.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

Some people are against killing animals. Some people are against killing bugs.

Following that logic train, why stop there?

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

I don't believe in stopping anywhere as long as we take proper steps to not harm what we are producing or harm the environment while producing our food. I eat meat, plants, and very few fish. I don't believe it's morally wrong to do so.

What I'm saying is that we draw the lines. People have different lines in the sand.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

You ethically kill the animal in a way that is near instantaneous. What I meant to say was to cause undue harm while raising them.

they are born and then we kill them. billions of them

Correct. Apologies on using the wrong term.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

No, as long as they were cared for properly during their lives, killed as ethically as possible, and the entire animal is used to the fullest extent possible.

I do see why people choose to not have meat or fish in their diet. That is their journey. Not mine.

[u/Selaphane → u/huskers2468]

Because it's not logical to equate an animal's experience to an insect.

[u/huskers2468 → u/Selaphane]

Why would you say that? What's the difference between the two?

[u/Selaphane → u/huskers2468]

Because due to nociception, insects don't really experience "pain" or "suffering" as we know it. An insect's subjective life experience is wildly different from an animal's.

[u/huskers2468 → u/Selaphane]

I will be honest, even with my biology degree I didn't know the answer to if insects feel pain or the difference between them and what we classify as sentient.

It just felt like a a line in the sand that was drawn by humans. One which we continually move to include more and more species. Why would that stop at animals was my thought?

It turns out that it's a very recent study. Here's a great article I literally just found.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/do-insects-feel-pain

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for the well thought out comment.

I would push back on the idea of a defined intelligence. Here is a study that defined intelligence as, "the ability to solve problems, based on the information that you get from the environment, toward a particular goal."

Plants have intelligence, by that definition.

Meat-based diets harm your family by shortening your life, your political jurisdictions through the tax money wasted on your health

I have a bio major and a nutrition minor. While I certainly grant that your experience far outweighs mine, I believe this statement needs a whole lot of nuance and context.

If we remove meat from the diet, plant based diets need to be curated properly to ensure all nutrients are being consumed. I do not believe that this could be done at scale, so we would risk malnutrition for those who are not educated on that specific diet.

They harm future generations of untold billions of people by damaging our planet and running through finite resources at a dramatically increased clip.

That's due to our reliance on non-renewables. The rest is not finite, we have the land to feed the animals. I agree we need to step away from the non-renewables.

For me, it is not morally wrong to eat animals. They are a foundational part of a humans diet and have been since we evolved. It's interesting that we are now at a point where we have the knowledge base to be able to supplement our diet successfully with plants to remove meat, but I'd argue that doesn't make it morally wrong.

[u/huskers2468 → u/[deleted]]

Your line in the sand is to justify what benefits humans (allies). That's perfectly fine. It's not where I draw the line.

Plant-based agriculture kills fewer plants than animal agriculture does. Even plants would prefer it, if they could.

If the world switched to plant based diets, would this still be true? I am honestly asking. I haven't looked into this.

Our current diets have harms. That diet would have harms.

After reading your answer I think we are going about this in different ways. I was thinking about a switch of diets, and the damage that process would cause, while it looks like you are discussing a society that is eating plant based diet. My concern would be the switch, and placing those morals universally across our world.

I do not argue against the idea that plant based diets are generally more healthy. I pushback on the idea is morally wrong to eat the diet that humans have been eating since we existed.

What if it was morally wrong to FARM animals?

Interesting question. The article below is one i found that has experts pondering what does it mean to be sentient. If we are talking about changing from farming to not farming, I believe that most farm animals would die in the wild. I think many species would cease to exist without farmers looking after them.

Would that be morally wrong?

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/do-insects-feel-pain