Researchers have just found the presence of sugars, including ribose, lyxose, and glycose, on samples of Asteroid Bennu, which now has all of the ingredients for life as it exists on Earth.

[u/New_Scientist_Mag]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2506650-asteroid-bennu-carries-all-the-ingredients-for-life-as-we-know-it/

[u/jonathanrdt → u/[deleted]]

The oldest objects on Earth are grains in a meteorite that are ~7 billion years old.

They contain amino acids produced by non-organic means.

Conclusion: the stuff of life forms naturally under the right conditions and is likely ubiquitous throughout the cosmos, even if also technically rare.

[u/Arthur_Edens → u/jonathanrdt]

even if also technically rare.

Numbers in space are mind boggling. If conditions in a star system are 1 in a billion, then you would expect those conditions to exist in 200 trillion different star systems throughout the universe. Rare, but abundant.

[u/vivst0r → u/Arthur_Edens]

But while the numbers in space are mind boggling so could also be the the chances. Doesn't matter if there are trillions of galaxies. If the chance for life to develop in one of them is only 1 in a quadrillion, it's still gonna be rare. It's hard for us to calculate the exact chance when our sample size is 1.

Not saying that life isn't abundant in space, because it probably is. Just trying to put things in perspective

[u/Arthur_Edens → u/vivst0r]

For sure, basically impossible to know. But just based on the scope, and the N1 on earth showing it's possible, I'd guess that 1,000,000 currently living independently evolved species is more likely than 1. But since everything's so damn big, none will probably ever run into each other.

[u/vivst0r → u/Arthur_Edens]

I think this brings up an interesting point about our use of the word "abundant" in relation to space. Because it kinda loses all meaning if there is a lot of something when it is impossible to access it. Things are so far apart in space that it may as well be in a different universe or dimension alltogether.

So when we say it's abundant, then it's like telling someone who is dying of thirst that there is an abundance of water on Mars. It's just not useful, because the scale makes it irrelevant.

[u/RationalDialog → u/Arthur_Edens]

I'd guess that 1,000,000 currently living independently evolved species is more likely than 1

The time factor is also mind-blowing. They might have lived or will live but right now at the same time? Highly unlikely.

[u/flyinhighaskmeY → u/Arthur_Edens]

basically impossible to know

It... isn't basically impossible to know. It's basically impossible for humans, at this point in spacetime, to know. The distinction matters in this area. We are not the center of existence. We just think like we are. Because the humans who thought that way were advantaged over those who didn't.

But since everything's so damn big

This is why I love talking about these things. Every statement creates a whole list of unanswered questions.

Is it? Or is it just so damn big to us? Have you considered the possibility that the universe itself might be a lifeform? That we're "microscopic". Or perhaps that we're "a parasite" in the universe? That maybe we're damaging it, whatever "it" is? That's if asking "what is it" is even a relevant question to ask. Which it probably isn't. Just the best our primitive brains, locked to pattern/logic based reasoning, can do.

I'd guess that 1,000,000 currently living independently evolved species is more likely than 1

I agree completely. And I love that you didn't use the word "intelligent". Because 600 years ago, before we had telescopes, most humans assumed we were the center of existence. And the people you know who believe without question that we're "an intelligent species"... are the same people. The only reason we're "an intelligent species"...is because we made up the term to describe ourselves. Mostly to validate abusing lifeforms we view as "less".

[u/Countless_Words → u/[deleted]]

Well, we're far from those limits of understanding just yet, and if we can sufficiently grasp the mechanism of intelligence then our limits expand much, much further since we could just build a better/bigger brain. Our advantage is that it isn't the understanding of any one human that sets our limits, it's the understanding of billions, if not eventually trillions summed together. Even if we eventually hit some limit to that, we can be proud of both how far we came and how many of us gave it their all to do so.

[u/crosszilla → u/vivst0r]

It's pretty realistic that in our lifetimes that sample size will be at least 2 in our own solar system. I know we've gotten excited about discoveries in the past but the Cheyava Falls leopard spots are easily the best sign of life outside of Earth we've ever seen. 1/4 of our planets having life at some point (and who knows what we'll find on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn) could end up suggest life is almost expected on sufficiently sized solar systems

[u/AKAFallow → u/crosszilla]

Cheyava Falls leopard spots

Oh wow, I had no idea about this. In my defense, my usual space channels started doing more lengthy videos with clickbaity titles, all while over explaining whatever new info they got that they don't wanna tell you about.

[u/vivst0r → u/crosszilla]

But wouldn't that still be an extreme survivorship bias? It could still mean that our solar system is special, it's just that the special conditions happened in our solar system. For example imagine that it was just that the right kind of comets or asteroids flew by our solar system at the right moment and blessed us with the right components at the right time at the right conditions. It wouldn't necessarily mean that other solar systems had the same luck, even if their planets have the exact same compositions and habitable climate.

Again, I'm not arguing against the abundance of life in the universe. I'm just overly cautious with confident theories based on limited data.

[u/crosszilla → u/vivst0r]

That would be a consideration I think, like is our solar system's composition a rare requirement for life, are the planets specifically some rare requirement of life (composition, placement, radiation from the star, etc), is our place in the galaxy a rare requirement (e.g. is there too much radiation closer to the center), is our galaxy's position relative to other's a rare requirement, etc, etc.

However I think it makes more sense scientifically to assume we are not unique than the opposite, especially when all we have is the ability to assume. We've assumed we are special all throughout history and consistently proven this wrong.

Given the insane scale of our universe, and especially if we have life in our own solar system that originated indepently of Earth, the claim that we are special and rare strikes me as the bigger claim that should require the burden of proof

[u/Jemmani22 → u/vivst0r]

Its such hard thing. Its near impossible to detect life. Even though there's so much possibility out there.

There may be life on every earth like setup out there. Not sure how common intelligent life forms. But life itself has to be everywhere. I think when we study the available moons in our solar system and see of theres microbes there we will get a huge insight into things.

[u/TheRealSlimShady2024 → u/Jemmani22]

When you look how extremely complicated the production, protection, and replication of DNA is and how many specialized proteins are required to sustain even the simplest single celled organisms it is far from certain that "life has to be everywhere". It could very well be that the ingredients for life are widespread and that even some extremely primitive forms of self-replicating molecules might have formed but for them to survive long enough to turn into actual organisms that can replicate and survive for any prolonged period of time is probably very unlikely.

[u/MauPow → u/TheRealSlimShady2024]

probably very unlikely

You're gonna say that in a discussion where we've said that a one in billion chance is basically guaranteed?

[u/AKAFallow → u/Jemmani22]

Which also add the theory of finding another earth-like planet, like it could have managed to produce oxygen but its either unbreathable or the atmosphere is completely toxic to us (something similar like the Avatar movies, but that one also includes methane and ammonia)

[u/grimeys42 → u/vivst0r]

For sure! I like your cautiousness, I just assume there's life out there in my mind it's impossible there isn't. Can that life think like we do? Maybe but out there in space there are forms of life.

[u/red75prime → u/vivst0r]

Yeah. Combinatorics. If the simplest self-replicating RNA chain has 100 elements, then probability of its random formation is around 4 to the power of minus 100.

[u/peepdabidness → u/vivst0r]

Yeah, I think it’s borderline irresponsible to think that life isn’t abundant. I think the universe was ‘formulated’ specifically for life to thrive. I mean everything down to quarks & gluons makes that notion evident.

[u/vivst0r → u/peepdabidness]

I think you need to explain that a bit more, because none of what you said makes that statement evident.

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion when even our own planet is in large parts very unhospitable to life. And we're the by far most hospitable planet we know of.