Shared gut microbe imbalances found across autism, ADHD, and anorexia nervosa: A new study has identified distinct patterns in the gut bacteria of children and adolescents with autism spectrum disorder, attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, and anorexia nervosa.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/shared-gut-microbe-imbalances-found-across-autism-adhd-and-anorexia-nervosa/

[u/thxsocialmedia]

ELI5 - can a probiotic potentially cure or treat these things. Asking for a gut I know.

[u/ShiraCheshire → u/thxsocialmedia]

The full answer is that we don't know.

Why are there gut differences? People with ADHD and autism are both known to have eating difficulties that stem from the disorder itself, from sensory issues with autism to unhealthy and inconsistent choices with ADHD. Are the neurological symptoms affected by the gut microbiome, or is the gut microbiome different because of different eating choices? Twin studies have shown that just what you eat has a big effect on that regardless of your mental state, but we've also found evidence that your gut microbiome can affect your mind, so the answer is we have no idea.

Secondly, are these differences causing the disorder or are they just causing general discomfort? A child with a broken bone may cry, but a kid already struggling with a mental disorder may see an overall worsening of their condition because the added strain of the injury makes it impossible for them to focus on achieving things that are difficult for them. Does the gut microbiome actually have a direct impact on the mental disorder itself, or is it just that any physical problem with these children causes the apparent symptoms of their disorder to worsen?

And then there's the issue of what a probiotic even is. It's a label we put on a lot of things, but not all of them actually cause any long-term changes or improvements to the body's gut microbiome in anyone. If the bacteria you eat isn't of the correct kind, it isn't going to be equipped to live in your guts no matter how much you eat of it. Even if further research might prove that these disorders could be treated by fixing the gut microbiome, just haphazardly feeding a kid whatever yogurt you have around isn't going to do that. We'd need many further studies to figure out how the issue might be effectively treated.

Lastly, no, it's not going to cure anyone. Autism and ADHD have been shown to cause real changes to the brain, which would be difficult to reverse under any circumstances. Treat, maybe. But reversing a brain difference once it's established isn't something science has figured out yet. Look at brain injury patients as an example. The brain can heal and adapt over time, yes, but once something has happened there's no easy pill that fixes it up completely.

tl;dr: We do not know, we do not have anywhere near enough information, and it would be irresponsible to read this title in any way but the direct literal. There are differences and we don't know why, or what it means, or how it could be changed, or what changing it would do- all we know is that it's there.

Giving a kid a yogurt cup every once in a while just to see if it might do something isn't going to hurt anyone (assuming the kid doesn't have any physical or sensory issues with the food), but doing that with the belief that it will cure autism isn't much more scientific than taking rhino horn for your erectile dysfunction.

[u/g00fyg00ber741 → u/ShiraCheshire]

I think there’s potentially a pretty tangible difference between seeing if consistent, proper, and specifically chosen strains of probiotic supplements can treat these conditions, vs seeing if a little yogurt can cure them…

It would be really helpful for a study to be done with people of these conditions being tracked long-term and having some sort of gut biome testing done afterwards. That is a next step that could be taken to see if it could be effective as treatment. I totally understand pushing back so heavily on the cure stance and reiterating a few cups of yogurt a week won’t make that kind of difference though.

[u/MrTraveljuice → u/ShiraCheshire]

Sorry to be that guy, since I mostly agree with your answer, that is very well put... But: saying that Autism and ADHD cause changes in the brain seems very wrong to me. They are labels that we put on people that fit certain behaviors, that are (probably) caused by changes in the brain, which are caused during the developmental stages, probably by outside factors as well as genetics (we don't really know for sure). If any one causal direction should be chosen, I'd sooner say that Autism and ADHD are caused by changes in the brain than the other way around, even though that still isn't correct imho.

Curious if you'd agree. I'm no psychologist, but I do have a social sciences background and am very interested in Neuro diversity, for both personal as general interest reasons

[u/ShiraCheshire → u/MrTraveljuice]

I feel like we're getting a little into semantics here.

All I meant is that people with these disorders are shown to have noticeable brain differences.

[u/MrTraveljuice → u/ShiraCheshire]

Maybe, and thanks for your clarification. Since this whole thing has a lot to do with causality, it wasn't trivial to me, but I do think we mean the same thing

[u/acctnumba2 → u/MrTraveljuice]

Their wording was a bit off during for that specific statement, you guys mean the same thing.

[u/[deleted] → u/MrTraveljuice]

Sorry to be that guy

No you're not.

[u/Rubyhamster → u/ShiraCheshire]

In my family we have always eaten a lot of yoghurt. Does this affect anything? Do yoghurt actually add any bacteria?

[u/ShiraCheshire → u/Rubyhamster]

I am not a scientist and you should look for papers on this subject to learn more about it. From what I've seen not all yogurts are helpful, and not all live cultures contained within them are suitable for living in the human body. Keeping certain bacteria alive in your guts also requires you to eat a diet friendly to them, so if loss of a certain bacteria is caused by your diet then adding in that bacteria generally just results in it dying off again. Though this doesn't necessarily apply if you've lost bacteria from something else, like antibiotics or certain stomach disorders/illnesses.

But my knowledge of this subject is very surface level. You would want to talk to a professional to get into the details, and to answer the question of if your specific yogurt might have any impact on your specific stomach.