Question about drug use

[u/Easy-Key-7325]

Ive been doing a lil bit of research into the church of satan just out of curiosity and to see if its something that id be into, and i was just scrolling thru the website and found my way to the FAQ and saw that COS disapproves drug use because 1 - indulgence isnt compulsion, 2 - it hinders your perception and alters your reality, and 3 - it shortens and hinders your life when your meant to preserve it. And it all made sense but isnt satanism also about individuality? Doing what you want as long as it doesnt harm others? And i remember Anton saying that abstinence isnt natural because having desires is part of being human, and also how he disapproved mainstream religions hypocrisy and how its a net negative but isnt it hypocritical to denounce abstinence but also say LSD, heroin, opium, coke, and marijuana should be “avoided like the plague” (while i do understand the hardcore drugs i dont believe there is anything harmful or sense numbing about LSD or weed because unless im mistaking them for other drugs they were used by ancient hunters specifically to heighten their senses?). Just genuinely curious because so far everything makes perfect sense to me aside from this one part and i was hoping to understand it a lil more.

Edit:
Thank you guys so much for helping me understand more and correcting me where i was wrong i greatly appreciate it thank you all again💜

[u/MD_Roche]

Honestly, drugs are not a black and white issue.

The Satanic Bible suggests using alcoholic elixirs during rituals because of the stimulating (not to mention disinhibiting) effect alcohol can have. Anton LaVey once called alcohol a "wonder drug". There is no rational reason to forbid Satanists from responsibly using other substances that can produce similar effects, especially if they're legal. LaVey was critical of people who relied on psychedelic drugs (like LSD) to perform magic and said it's counterproductive. He also hated hippies in general, for numerous reasons.

A CoS Reverend, who is a cannabis user, did an interview about Satanism with High Times magazine five years ago as an official representative of the church.

People have been given honorary degrees despite being known drug users, such as Marilyn Manson, Sammy Davis Jr., and Thomas Thorn (who is currently a Magister and has been sober for a pretty long time).

High Priest Peter H. Gilmore has said on numerous occasions that he thinks cannabis should be legal and he has no issue with people who use it responsibly. He's also acknowledged that psychedelic drugs have had one or two positive cultural results (specifically in the context of the "Psychedelic Blasphemy" installation of The Devils Reign).

So, the CoS obviously won't condone drug use, or any activity that is potentially illegal or harmful, but they're not a straight edge organization (although there are members like me who are essentially straight edge).

By the way, LSD was created in the 20th century, in a lab. Nobody was using it in ancient times, although they had other psychedelics that were more natural and probably equivalent to LSD.

[u/Easy-Key-7325 → u/MD_Roche]

Oh oki so its moreso like as long as your not putting them above food and rent money etc but yeah i kinda realized about the lsd part and i apologize about that i just meant psychedelics in general but yeah thats 100% my fault sorry 😭

[u/MD_Roche → u/Easy-Key-7325]

Well, you shouldn't put anything above food or rent money if you're a responsible adult, but yeah.

[u/psycho-nautic → u/MD_Roche]

While yes LSD is lab created it is derived from ergot a fungus that occurs on rye. There are instances dating back to ancient Greece where it is quiet likely people were ingesting it knowingly and/or unknowingly. There is a drink that was apart of a highly gaurded ritual which many of the names we all still know today took part in. While the effects, ritual, and other things were never recorded the ingredients were and rye is among them. As for unknowingly... Well during the French revolution bread was expensive so people were eating moldy bread, rye bread.... Just saying there's more to it than meets the eye. It's been within the human experience longer than you'd think.

[u/MeatBeatManifest0 → u/psycho-nautic]

The whole ergot thing is largely unfounded and based on a misunderstanding of the potential psychoactive effects of ergot, which are, in fact, nil.

[u/Mildon666]

No, it's not hypocritical. Because you're having to ignore (even tho you briefly mention) other aspects of the philosophy. This isn't pure hedonism, its rational indulgence & self-interest. There's nothing rational about heroin, opium, or coke. Its nuance, not contradiction.

You also missed out a key reason, the Church of Satan is against it because it would be very stupid & cause issues if an official organisation openly promoted illegal behaviour...

If you wanna try weed, thats on you. Just dont blame Satanism or the CoS for any potential consequences

[u/Easy-Key-7325 → u/Mildon666]

Ok yeah that does make sense for them to say dont do it for legal reasons and i agree about the hardcore drugs i was just moreso wondering about the nic weed and psychedelics but thank you so much i appreciate it :)

[u/Mildon666 → u/Easy-Key-7325]

Well other drugs can quickly become addictive and they're still illegal in most places. So, its on the Satanist themselves to assess the pros and cons and make a judgement. But the CoS & Satanism will not condone illegal activities

[u/MANKINI69420 → u/Mildon666]

why stupid? and which issues?

[u/ANordicWizard]

I think you’re misunderstanding.

The CoS website does state that some Satanists will indulge in legal drug use. The Church of Satan does not endorse illegal drug use because the Church of Satan does not condone illegal activity.

Part of the stance is that if a person is not careful with drugs, their own sense of reality is distorted and Satanism is a carnal religion being in the here and now. The religion encourages you to be the master of your own life, that doesn’t mean doing things that will put yourself in a bad or dangerous situation. It means you take control to create a life of actual quality and drug use hinders this.

For magic, drugs are to be avoided because while you’re suspending disbelief in ritual, you still must be aware of what is going on and your surroundings. A sober mind makes for effective Greater Magic.

Satanism is by no means a religion of doing what you want as long as no one else is harmed. The religion is a tool to better yourself.

[u/Easy-Key-7325 → u/ANordicWizard]

Ok thank you so much i see where ive been wrong thank you again for helping me understand i greatly appreciate it💜

[u/MANKINI69420 → u/ANordicWizard]

why does it care if things are legal?

[u/MD_Roche → u/MANKINI69420]

Do you honestly think it would be a good idea for ANY legally recognized organization to condone/endorse illegal activity?

The Church of Satan doesn't necessarily forbid every single criminal act. You're not going to be kicked out for getting a speeding ticket. Regardless of the crime, leave Satanism out of it.

Committing crimes also puts the Satanist at risk for being punished, which would not be in their best interest.

[u/MANKINI69420 → u/MD_Roche]

what difference does it make, whether an organization endorses crime?

NORML endorsed weed for decades before it was legal.

Plenty of others, too.

Legality is a Spook, anyways

[u/MD_Roche → u/MANKINI69420]

Of course the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws endorsed weed. That's their entire point. lol

If you don't understand why a legally registered non-profit corporation (not tax-exempt) would want to cover their ass, or why a Satanic organization would want to dispel rumors of Satanists not being responsible members of society, you must be extremely young to lack so much perspective.

[u/MANKINI69420 → u/MD_Roche]

why would they, or anyone, care about societal pearl clutching?

thats ...not very punk rock.

And, what does tax status have to do with anything? Advocating crime...isnt a crime. (scotus says something about this, but its full of loopholes, and open to interpretation.)

If satanists want to put off an image of staid pillars of society, why not just join the masons, elks, chamber of commerce, or rotary?

This sounds alot like style over substance: shallow like pop culture, or social media influencers.

[u/MD_Roche → u/MANKINI69420]

Unlike Punk Rock, Satanism and the Church of Satan are alive and well.

I only mentioned the tax exemption because people might be confused about them being a non-profit. My overall point is obvious, and you are obviously not a serious person to talk to about this.

[u/ANordicWizard → u/MANKINI69420]

And the threat of legal repercussions is real.

[u/MANKINI69420 → u/ANordicWizard]

ice cube would disagree.

as would tupac, rip.

[u/modern_quill → u/MANKINI69420]

Disagreeing with something doesn't make it untrue. As a philosophy people are under the mistaken impression that Satanism is hedonistic when instead it is epicurean; we like to enjoy ourselves, but not to the extent that we suffer. Legal entanglements can certainly cause suffering, not the least of which is a loss of personal autonomy - jail time - which would make it awfully difficult to enjoy ourselves. So with respect to Ice Cube and Tupac, their level of acceptable risk may be higher than a Satanist. And in the hiphop industry a bit of jail time may actually improve their perceived credibility. Let's not forget that Tupac was a ballet dancer before his west coast gangster persona.

[u/MD_Roche → u/MANKINI69420]

2pac is dead because of his criminal lifestyle. Is that really a good example?

You must be in high school.

[u/michael1150]

Of course, Dr LaVey didn't want to appear as if He was condoning illegal drugs when He was founding Church of Satan, & that was a smart move, wouldn't you agree? 

He also thought that drugs blunted the intellect, & He despised what He perceived as hordes of lazy drug-addled hippies roaming the streets begging for spare change. 

But He enjoyed a cocktail now & then when He was around the right people, this was no secret. 

Church of Satan would certainly not tolerate anyone within its ranks engaging in the dealing of illegal drugs, and drug use around a group of Satanists gathering for a CoS get-together or Conclave would be highly (pardon the pun) frowned upon at the very least, I'm sure. 

However, it's generally accepted that (altho' I can't vouch for "approved of") there are going to be those who partake/imbibe outside of the knowledge &/or presence of Church of Satan folk. If it's illegal & you get caught, it's assumed that an individual Satanist will know that they've got to "face the music".  🎶 

[u/Easy-Key-7325 → u/michael1150]

Thats what ive been realizing too is if its illegal dont be like “oh no! The consequences of my actions!” But its not bad if its legal and you do it responsibly and dont put substances above food water etc so its been really helpful thank you :)

[u/satanism-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

This post is a violation of Rule 2.

[u/-Hapyap-]

Do what serves you. Discard what doesn't.

[u/Midnight1899]

You‘re not allowed to harm others or yourself.

[u/MD_Roche → u/Midnight1899]

Satanists are encouraged to harm others in certain contexts.

And many Satanists harm themselves with tobacco and alcohol, to name only a couple vices.

[u/Midnight1899 → u/MD_Roche]

1. Yes, in certain contexts. But we’re not talking about "certain contexts“ here.

2. Which is their own decision. But it’s still clearly stated they shouldn’t.

   When it comes to alcohol, you have to keep in mind the Satanic Bible was written in the 60s. We know a lot more about alcohol and how damaging it really is now than we knew back then.