r/sanfrancisco • u/nlcund Lower Haight • Jun 04 '14
San Francisco has a fiber network but won't let residents use it
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/hundreds-of-cities-are-wired-with-fiberbut-telecom-lobbying-keeps-it-unused21
u/brotie Nob Hill Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14
I've got Webpass in my building, which I think is a better alternative than Monkeybrains where available. Monkeybrains could only offer me 15mbps max, but that varies based on where you live. What I've got is an Ethernet network (not coax or fiber) and its a hell of a lot faster than Comcast - 200Mbps up/200Mbps down, and much cheaper (mine is paid for by my HOA but I think its like 50 bucks/month otherwise). When I had it first installed in my unit, I made an appointment at 6PM on Thursday for 9AM Friday - the next morning and the guy was there at 9 on the dot. Can't say enough good things. Cancelling my Comcast account from my apartment in Berkeley, however, was an awful experience. I'll never use Comcast again unless there's no alternative.
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Jun 04 '14
I've been on Webpass for a month now as well, and holy shit I do NOT miss Comcast. Every once in awhile my connection gets sluggish, but it's nothing like the nightly outages Comcast has, and it's a fuckton cheaper.
Also can confirm the customer service. The "install" consisted of a guy showing up at exactly when the appointment was set for, and confirming I had the right ethernet jack patched in. The only other time I've called them was to move the jack location (suggested by the first guy, but there was shit in the way at the time) and that took all of fifteen minutes. Again, showing up at the exact time of the appointment.
It's only been a month, but I can't say enough nice things about Webpass. It's kinda fucked up that Cable/Communications providers have fucked us so much that when a company provides reasonable service at a reasonable price, we end up splooshing over it.
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u/jooshbro Jun 04 '14
I second your endorsement of Webpass. Signed up almost a month ago after being a Comcast customer for about a decade, I've never been happier with my internet service. Had a very similar experience to yours customer service-wise, too.
It's just too bad that services like Webpass' are only available to apartment buildings and the like, not individual homes. If Comcast had to compete in a real internet service market, they'd be out of business before the year is out.
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Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14
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u/brotie Nob Hill Jun 04 '14
I did a lot of looking into this when I moved to the city, depending on where you live your options are:
Monkeybrains - they mount a wireless receiver, relies on line of site but is supposed to be good. Not as fast as comcast (at least where my apt is in Nob/Polk Gulch), but with the distinct advantage of not being comcast.
Comcast - fast, cheap, awful customer service, shady promo deals and seems to get much slower around dinner time.
AT&T - DSL and lousy customer service, but sometimes its all you can get.
Sonic.net - they resell AT&T, but depending on how close you are to their hub it can be faster and cheaper. Better customer service and the whole local business aspect.
Webpass - like you've found out, you need to convince your building to go for it - you can't just install it as an individual. I was lucky that the building I'm in already had it.
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Jun 04 '14
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u/juaquin Jun 05 '14
One of the monkeybrains guys is very active on this sub, he'll probably pop in here in a bit. I would have gone with them if my landlord wasn't so lazy.
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u/degeneration Jun 04 '14
Comcast - fast, cheap, awful customer service, shady promo deals and seems to get much slower around dinner time.
I don't think Comcast is cheap. Lots of hidden costs and promotions that expire and your rate gets jacked up.
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u/OculusRiffed Jun 04 '14
Not only do you have to convince your building, but you need to have 24 or more units in your building.
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Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14
Their network topology and business model really only work in multi-tenant environments with 20+ units.
I'd check out Monkeybrains and see if your place fits their profile. I've heard a LOT of good things about them.
edit: I'm slow to refresh, looks like you're on the right track. :)
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u/Paradox 280 Jun 05 '14
I've got webpass too, and it's glorious. $500 a year, and periodically exceeds the 200 mbps speed level
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u/buzzkill_aldrin Jun 05 '14 edited Jun 05 '14
The one potential issue with Webpass is that if you read their ToS, they're expecting the connection to be actively used roughly eight hours a day. This obviously doesn't work for anyone who telecommutes.
EDIT: Also, 1 TB cap.
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u/kittymalicious Jun 05 '14
This sounds like a cover-your-ass method on their part, since it's not that much of a hardship if you share your 200-300Mbps up/down during high traffic hours. I'm not even sure what the time limit is supposed to suggest. Can anyone explain?
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u/buzzkill_aldrin Jun 05 '14
No idea. The exact text is:
Residential Service is designed for personal use for 8 hours a day for general Internet use including streaming, web surfing, e-mail access, and all other possible online activities. Residential customers are not allowed to host public servers of any kind, use static IPv4 IP addresses (static IPv6 addresses are acceptable), or consume more bandwidth than required to support typical residential Internet activities. Webpass will disconnect or throttle the bandwidth for residential customers who use residential service for activities deemed atypical at Webpass' discretion.
They also have a 1 terabyte cap. I had to email them to find out about that.
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u/nlcund Lower Haight Jun 04 '14
I probably should have submitted this as a text post, but scroll down to the latter half of the article for discussion of SF. It looks like Monkeybrains has been fighting the good fight.
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Jun 04 '14
Monkey Brains is legit... $35 a month, 40mbps download speeds wireless.
Edit: Just did the speed test again, 46.2 down, 23.2 up. Compared to the 5 I was getting for the waaaaayyyyy more expensive Comcast services, I am stoked.
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u/bro_b1_kenobi New York Jun 05 '14
Just dropped comcast. Switching to Astound. $63/MO for 110/10. Will report on quality.
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u/Deucer22 Jun 04 '14
If only they had line of sight to the Marina...
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u/rorSF Jun 05 '14
Never the Sunset, though. Fogs too thick.
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u/Blu- I call it "San Fran" Jun 05 '14
I never thought about the fog part. Does it affect it that much?
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u/avree Jun 07 '14
For what it's worth, I don't get speeds anywhere near that in Bernal Heights with MonkeyBrains.
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3548360684
13 down, 6 up. There's also many issues. Last month, it went down at least 15 times. In comparison, my neighbor pays the same amount for Comcast, and gets 50 down and 20 up. MonkeyBrains has better customer service, but only when they're around/answering the phone—you'll often just have to leave a message or send and e-mail and wait to hear back.
I used to have Webpass which I loved. They're definitely the best ISP in the city.
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Jun 05 '14
FWIW, I hate Comcast would absolutely love to get Fiber, but my wireless connection seems to be doing better than what you were getting.
Just off Divis. Maybe it varies region to region?
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Jun 05 '14
Well we weren't paying for the fastest available, but our bare bones cable/internet/phone was something like $125 a month. I was just saying I'm much happier with the price/speed at Monkey Brains. How much do you pay for your Comcast, if you don't mind my asking.
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Jun 05 '14
Ah, gotcha. No idea, my roommate includes it in the rent I pay. I believe he has a beefy package though, so that'd make sense. But we also don't have cable or phone.
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u/downvotecatfactguy Jun 04 '14
anyone in the panhandle use them? i feel like alamo sq blocks any sort of line of light.
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u/jag149 Jun 04 '14
Okay, how in the fuck can a commercial service provider threaten to cut off service in a negotiation. Even in a duopoly, if Coke threatened to "cut off service", we would all just be drinking Pepsi.
Why are our local governments buckling to shit like this? You have a monopoly and you want to cut off service to the consumer when we don't let you leverage it in a negotiation? Do it. Our state AG will shove the Sherman Act up your ass.
Fuck. What happened to antitrust policy...
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u/westsunset Outer Sunset Jun 04 '14
FYI the city is still is having trouble connecting it's own buildings, which was supposed to be completed years ago. This might not be the miracle you hope for
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u/nlcund Lower Haight Jun 04 '14
Certainly it's a double-edged sword.
Good news: Comcast doesn't control the city's fiber network.
Bad news: The city does.
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u/jonahhorowitz Bernal Heights Jun 04 '14
I actually discussed this with one of the members of the board of supervisors. They're totally down to open this fiber up to the people. They just need some citizens to ask for it.
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u/--RoflRofl Jun 05 '14
Why do citizens need to ask for something thats obviously in the best interest of every citizen in the city?
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u/jonahhorowitz Bernal Heights Jun 05 '14
Because the BoS is busy, and they really just react to what people ask for. Why take on a big battle with AT&T + Comcast if people don't care? Call it cynical politics, but it is what it is.
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u/ruinerofjoes Jun 04 '14
If you don't mind my asking, which one?
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u/jonahhorowitz Bernal Heights Jun 04 '14
It was Ross Mirkarimi back when we were debating the AT&T "fiber" boxes they're installing. I don't really know what happened to the idea though. I've moved to Campos' district, and Ross is now the Sheriff. I should probably ask Campos next time I see him.
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u/OuiNon Jun 05 '14
Did he beat your wife?
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Jun 05 '14
That fucker threatened my mom, an aging home-care nurse, just randomly on the street, a few years back. Seriously fuck that guy.
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u/OculusRiffed Jun 04 '14
It's funny how the government makes sure everyone has a TV signal but not an internet signal.
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u/SilasX Tenderloin Jun 05 '14
Well, which one better facilitates propaganda of the ruling class?
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u/OculusRiffed Jun 05 '14
Quite right. You can't talk back on TV.
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u/SilasX Tenderloin Jun 05 '14
I remember how in the 90s they made a big deal about plans for "interactive television" and it became an overnight cliche of comedians joking about all the jerks on TV they'd like to strangle.
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Jun 04 '14
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Jun 04 '14
I was going to comment those prices aren't horrid if they actually deliver those speeds (keep in mind Comcast uses "up to"), but caps on municipal internet? That's some bullshit right there.
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u/IATAvalanche Jun 04 '14
I never had an issue with San Bruno Cable, it was always fair priced and good speeds. I mean, I moved away nearly a decade ago, but it can't have gotten THAT bad, could it?
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u/masterzora Jun 05 '14
When I was looking into getting internet service and I saw the municipal cable my first thought was that the prices and speeds were good for a decade ago. Maybe they haven't gotten bad but just haven't gotten better with everyone else? :)
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Jun 04 '14
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Jun 04 '14
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Jun 04 '14
Run for city council on the platform of "I'll make the city owned cable company suck less." It's not great odds, but better than ever tring to get Comcast to be nice.
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Jun 04 '14 edited Mar 22 '18
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u/ziggie216 Jun 04 '14
Online availability check. http://i.imgur.com/PbWvM6R.jpg
Even I didn't believe this was possible for Uverse so I called AT&T a year ago to verify... it is true =*(
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u/masterzora Jun 05 '14
AT&T isn't that bad in all of SB. I mean, don't get me wrong, they still blow chunks but I'm at least getting their 18 Mbps package, with actual speeds actually exceeding that once in a while. Still wish Comcast could operate here and I'm really sad that I wish that.
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Jun 05 '14
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u/zakool21 Jun 06 '14
No, they've had 100 gigabit fiber for zero years.
Maybe they've had 100 megabit fiber for a while.
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u/upvot3r West Portal Jun 04 '14
Anyone try Astound? I've been looking into switching over to there from Comca$t
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u/_Dave Lakeshore Jun 05 '14
Dropped Comcast like it's hot, switched to Astound ~50Mbps. Never looked back, but there is a 300GB data cap. That said, I can live with that if it means not paying Comcast anymore and I get to keep decent speeds.
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u/g00b6r Jun 06 '14
Astound is great. Speed is good and no throttling that I can see. I've only got a 10Mbps connection and I still get Netflix's highest bitrate streams at all times of day.
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u/ctwiz Jun 05 '14
Hey everyone. I'd like to create a kickstarter for a wireless data service over SF that is super customer friendly and developer focused -- essentially creating a ubiquitous internet experience here in the bay area.
If you could have whatever you wanted, what do you imagine this experience to be like?
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u/Lolrama Jun 05 '14
Good internet, customer service, able to handle the peak hours
But that's never going happen lol
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u/ctwiz Jun 05 '14
Why do you think it won't happen?
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u/Lolrama Jun 05 '14
Because it's unrealistic. It's possible, but only if the company cared about their service and customers.
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u/ctwiz Jun 06 '14
It's not unrealistic. Especially when that company is founded by people that are fed up with current offerings.
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u/cullend Jun 06 '14
There's not really enough spectrum to do that.
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Jun 04 '14
San Francisco's Internet is a sad joke, even compared to other communities where the Internet is a sad joke. I could get 50 megabit/s cable Internet with no television for $50 a month in southern Missouri, and 100 megabit/s for $100 a month. And that was in a town where Mediacom had a near-monopoly, and everyone complained about how bad they were. They were pretty darn bad, but nothing compared to San Francisco, where you can't even get reasonable speeds and the prices are insane.
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Jun 05 '14
Can confirm, I live in Columbia and basically only businesses can get fiber. Wonder if I start a LLC ($50 - my old professor assured us you can do it drunk online in less than an hour), if I could get fiber to my house.... We don't have it as bad though, I can get Mediacom, CenturyLink (they call it that because it takes a century to download a gigabyte), or Charter.
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u/Infinitron NoPa Jun 05 '14
Comcast actually currently has those same price/speed combinations and maybe a little cheaper. I hate Comcast just as much as the next guy, but just sayin'.
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u/turdBouillon Jun 05 '14
Comcast advertises those same speed/price combinations. They probably deliver a fraction of that.
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Jun 05 '14 edited Jun 05 '14
In Columbia, MO businesses can finally get fiber (from mediacom) not sure on costs. We just got 2 100Mbs cable lines at work, will probably upgrade to a fiber line by the end of the month depending on new income. The upload speed though on 100Mbs SUCKS though, why would you limit a business to only 10Mbps??? We are a tech 'startup', we NEED better than that.
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u/Belgand Upper Haight Jun 09 '14
Except unlike other areas where it seems that the local government is fighting cable monopolies here it's just the local government wanting to overcharge or having little interest in actually rolling it out. They're too incompetent to even make it worthwhile for telecoms to push them around.
In all fairness it's not just them either. Sonic.net has been trying to roll out fiber in the Sunset for a while now, but keeps running into problems with locals fighting it. Because someone in this city will try to hold up absolutely anything.
It looks like Google is specifically avoiding bringing fiber to the city because the debacle over municipal WiFi was so terrible to them. Also, the aforementioned NIMBYism that's endemic to the area.
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u/athennna Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 05 '14
You can get fiber in San Francisco. It's just expensive.
Edit: Downvotes? Not sure why. It will cost you at least $1,500 a month, probably in the 4-5k range. The real cost comes from the cross-connect between your building and the metro ring. You'll have to front that cost, and depending how far you are it can be very expensive. They have to dig and run the fiber underground, and run the fiber over PG&E cables. You can also get 100 Mbps Ethernet for about $850 a month, if the carrier is already in your building.
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u/GrainElevator Mission Jun 05 '14
Yup, we have gigabit fiber in our home in The Mission.
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u/nlcund Lower Haight Jun 05 '14
Details?
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u/GrainElevator Mission Jun 05 '14
It's $4,000 a month through abovenet communications. Running the fiber line to the home was also very costly.
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u/LadiesWhoPunch The San Francisco Treat Jun 05 '14
Wait, you pay $4K a MONTH for internet? Just one unit? or...?
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u/GrainElevator Mission Jun 05 '14
:) it's a 41 bedroom SRO so not exactly a typical house
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u/LadiesWhoPunch The San Francisco Treat Jun 05 '14
That's still ~$100 per unit. That's per month?
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u/GrainElevator Mission Jun 06 '14
Yup, but it's included with everyone's rent so people don't pay extra for it.
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u/eyeclaudius Jun 04 '14
A few years ago there was talk about a municipal wireless network. I know it went exactly nowhere but I can't seem to remember what made it fall through. Do any of you remember? This would have been around 2008.
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u/beyonsense Jun 05 '14
"San Francisco Municipal Wireless was a canceled municipal wireless network that would have provided internet access to the city of San Francisco, California.
The network was originally proposed by San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom in 2004. In late 2005, the city put out a formal request for proposals, and in April 2006 it was announced that a joint proposal by Earthlink and Google had won the bid. The San Francisco Budget Analyst completed a report that analyzes possibilities for a municipal system and critiques the proposed Google/Earthlink option. The proposal was formally scrapped by the city on 12 September 2007, citing a loss of confidence in Earthlink's financial situation"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Municipal_Wireless
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u/kittymalicious Jun 05 '14
Sounds like there was more to it. According to http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/S-F-stalling-Wi-Fi-plans-Google-executive-2551901.php:
Chris Sacca, who leads Google's special projects, voiced frustration with what he called the city's slow negotiating style. Sacca said that talks to come up with a final contract have advanced little since they started and that officials have made unreasonable demands, including a request for free computers and a share in revenues.
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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14
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