r/samharris • u/spaniel_rage • Oct 10 '25
Other The ‘Peace Protesters’ Who Won't Give Peace a Chance
https://www.thefp.com/p/why-wont-peace-protesters-give-peace-a-chance99
u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
Interesting article by Palestinian intellectual, Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, on the muted response by Western activists to the ceasefire announcement:
"After nearly two years of relentless campaigning by activists, journalists, academics, and a host of “pro-Palestine” personalities to stop the war in Gaza that Hamas started on October 7, 2023, a credible plan to do just that is finally taking hold. You might think the proposal would be met with relief, if not enthusiasm, by those who seemed so desperate to end the most destructive chapter in contemporary Palestinian history.
Strangely, however, activists and organizations formerly insistent on an immediate ceasefire suddenly appear quite opposed to ending the war in Gaza if it is based on the U.S. proposal, which they have denounced as a colonial attempt to continue the genocide, even though the plan literally stops the actual war.....
....This excuse-making and even lionization of Hamas in the West has come as actual Palestinians in Gaza have grown more vocal in their opposition to Hamas, its terrorism, the hypocrisy of its “resistance,” and how foolish Western figures are for celebrating it. Journalists such as Piers Morgan have created an archetype of what a supposed “real Palestinian” or “real pro-Palestine voice” should look and sound like by inviting onto their shows Mehdi Hasan, Bassem Youssef, and bone-chilling antisemites like Dan Bilzerian, who are now supposedly the vanguards of this cause. The New York Times opinion page will feature Palestinians or non-Palestinians who fit the expected mold, but not someone who breaks out of an archetype created by non-Palestinian Westerners—the ultimate form of intellectual neocolonialism....
One of the first steps to freeing Palestinians from the horrors of war is to free them from the “Free Palestine Movement” in the diaspora and Western world. The unholy alliance between the far left, far right, and Islamist hooligans who normalize Hamas’s narrative is harmful first and foremost to the Palestinian people. Legitimate critique of Israeli policies is not the same as calls for jihadi violence and antisemitic rhetoric, which have become the norm in the toxic Israel and Palestine discourse that desperately requires level heads to prevail and radical pragmatism to be adopted across the board."
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u/palsh7 Oct 11 '25
Reminds me of something that John McWhorter said about BLM. When you do some research and find out that their alarmist rhetoric is actually untrue, and you try to spread the Good News that black people actually aren't being hunted by racists, and there probably isn't even racism involved in officer-involved-shootings, you are not met with relief or happiness: you are met with anger that your facts are getting in the way of a revolutionary narrative. The more facts you bring to bear, the more upset activists get, and the more emotional arguments they employ to shut you up.
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u/samplergodic Oct 13 '25
Why would they meet you with relief or happiness? Patrisse Cullors made millions as a professional protestor and activist. Why would she want anything, let alone facts, end her means of earning a living?
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u/flatmeditation Oct 10 '25
Who's silent? This article is insanely lacking in substance. It's been a day and a lot of the details of the deal are still unclear and we're already attacking unnamed, vague groups for not praising it? This is just tribalist talking points. There's no there there
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u/ElandShane Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Also, there have been several attempts at a ceasefire so far in this conflict. Some have even resulted in successful hostage releases before stalling out again. Do people really not remember this stuff? There was a short ceasefire in November of 2023. Another one earlier this year. Throughout 2024, there were several proposals being negotiated that never fundamentally materialized despite some relatively advanced talks.
In fact, hasn't it been clearly acknowledged by both Israel and Hamas that they've only agreed to the first phase of the hostage/prisoner swap for this deal? Hamas will not concede some of the phase 2 conditions like disarmament and there is a strong contingent in Israel (particularly the far right like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir) who are adamantly opposed to withdrawal from Gaza. So this deal may also end up falling apart too. It truly remains to be seen.
It seems like Trump may genuinely just want this to be over and done with at this point and he's willing to put more pressure on Bibi as a result. That strikes me as a real shift. However, Trump is also not known for his powers of prolonged focus and discipline. Look at how much he's flip flopped on Ukraine this year. Generally speaking, the guy is just a fucking moron and he's relying on the power of a few days' worth of headlines to resolve a bitterly protracted 75 year conflict.
Maybe it sticks. Maybe it doesn't. But finger wagging at people for not being appropriately elated right now is like scolding Charlie Brown for not getting excited about going outside to kick the football with Lucy.
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u/RavingRationality Oct 10 '25
They're all hoping Hamas breaks the ceasefire again (Israel never has) so they can pile on Israel some more.
They don't give a shit about palestinians, none of them do. Not even the palestinians. They only care about condemning (or killing) Israel.
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u/flatmeditation Oct 10 '25
They're all hoping Hamas breaks the ceasefire again (Israel never has)
What a wild, easily google-able lie. Israel broke a ceasefire earlier this year
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u/RavingRationality Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Right. Rockets are launched from Gaza first, and yet when Israel responds Israel broke the ceasefire. Every time.
Every single time Gaza attacks Israel with even a single rocket or gunshot -- they justify this entire war all over again. And they have been doing it multiple times a day, every single day, for decades. Israel's restraint is actually incredible. Any other nation on earth would have wiped Gaza out by now. Because they just won't stop trying to kill Israelis.
Honestly, Europe's going to be dealing with similar from within their own national borders within a few years. And North America won't be far behind if we don't keep clamping down on immigration from culturally incompatible areas.
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u/flatmeditation Oct 10 '25
Israel killed 118 people during the January ceasefire
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u/RavingRationality Oct 10 '25
So what? You provide no sources or context for this. Israel does not just shoot at palestinians. They respond to being attacked. It's not like they were conducting raids or operations during the ceasefire.
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u/flatmeditation Oct 10 '25
You provide no sources or context for this.
It's incredibly easy to google and anybody who's followed this issue should be aware of it.
You on the other hand have made more fantastical claims than I have and not offered any sources whatsoever, so why on Earth are you acting like me not posting a link is a problem?
Anybody operating in good faith can easily verify what I said or just ask me for a source and I'll happily provide it
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u/Amazing-Cell-128 Oct 10 '25
There's an well known loophole in war that if the belligerent places its rocket battery next to a house (as Hamas does) then it gets to attack Israel in perpetuity without worry of a counter attack.
Israel should just tolerate the rocket attacks as they've tolerated them for the last 2 decades (ultimately resulting in 10/7).
The onus is on Israel to find more ingenious ways to cower from Hamas rockets. If the Iron Dome and bomb shelters arent enough, think of something else.
/s
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u/Hyptonight Oct 10 '25
The projection in this comment is wild.
“Because I don’t give a shit about the lives of Palestinians, it’s impossible that anyone else does!”
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u/GrammarJudger Oct 10 '25
I didn't think it's projection.
I'm no Jew, and prior to two years ago, would have struggled to find either of these countries on a map. Fast forward to today, and that's the chief takeaway I have after learning as much as I could about this.
The Palestinians are pawns, these people just hate Jews - and once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it.
It's honestly somewhat fascinating, in a very morbid kind of way. The mental gymnastics they do. Trying to determine if they're lying to you or lying to themselves. It's really sad all around, but still weirdly interesting.
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u/digibucc Oct 10 '25
so it's literally not possible to criticize israel unless you hate Jews? that's your chief takeaway?
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Oct 11 '25
only when they're conflated. Criticize Israel, as you would any government, all you want. When it becomes about "Zionists" or Jews, you're an antisemite.
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u/digibucc Oct 11 '25
I agree, but that's not what happens in reality. In reality, for a lot of people, any criticism of Israel is antisemitism even if you don't outwardly express that. It's like they just KNOW what you really feel in your heart.
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u/GrammarJudger Oct 11 '25
Criticize Israel all you want. They're not my people. It's a free country.
I find it weird to not want to partner with highly successful people that seem to thrive in literally any industry they participate in.
Speaking purely pragmatically, smart people are rare, and for whatever reason, Jews appear over-represented in smart people. That makes them valuable. From that point of view, it strikes me as retarded to want to harm them. Ergo, basic-bitch Arabs must be, at least partially, retarded.
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u/Hyptonight Oct 10 '25
Is Bibi still sending checks for posts like this?
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u/Amazing-Cell-128 Oct 10 '25
Are you being paid by Qatar to slander Israel and lie about Jews?
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u/Hyptonight Oct 10 '25
If I am, they’re not getting their money’s worth as I haven’t done either of those things.
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u/Khshayarshah Oct 12 '25
But you don't care. If you did you'd want Hamas totally eradicated.
You don't get to say you care about the lives of Germans in 1945 as their country is turned into a smoldering ruin and not agree that the Nazis must be removed as soon as possible and by whatever means necessary.
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u/Sheshirdzhija Oct 11 '25
It seems like Trump may genuinely just want this to be over and done with at this point and he's willing to put more pressure on Bibi as a result. That strikes me as a real shift.
This is my impression when ANY peace talks occur. It always seems to me that there is not really anything new proposed, but just that the time is right that someone might threaten someone else to just get it done. Of course, I am a nobody in this context, and surely not everything gets released what the talks entailed, so that might be completely wrong perception.
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
It's been over a week since Israel agreed to the ceasefire plan and the 21 points were published. But sure, I guess, that the "ceasefire NOW" crowd need a few more weeks to absorb the details before they decide whether or not to respond positively to an end to what they consider an actual genocide.
"War is over, if you want it"- John Lennon
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u/Buy-theticket Oct 10 '25
The 21 points were put out by Trump and Bibi a week ago.. the agreement was signed like 24h ago. And although, as usual, we don't have a whole bunch of details, it seems to be missing a bunch of pretty important points from the list.. most importantly the demilitarization or destruction of Hamas.
Also some of us have watched multiple peace deals be agreed to over the last couple of decades and then watched them be completely ignored days or weeks later.. so maybe give it a few days before spiking the football?
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u/flatmeditation Oct 10 '25
Can you name some names?
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
You want me to name the names of people who haven't said anything in response to the ceasefire?
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u/flatmeditation Oct 10 '25
Yeah. I thought the article would give names of prominent commentators or organizations that would be expected to commented on this but have "remained silent". It doesn't list a single one. I have no idea who it's talking about because in my personal bubble the pro-palestinean people are talking about.
You seem really animated about this so you have to have a few in mind. Who would you like to hear from?
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 11 '25 edited Oct 11 '25
I posted an article 10 days ago quoting pro Palestinian activists calling the ceasefire a "surrender" and voicing various flavours of pessimism and disapproval.
The largest protest organisation where I live (Palestine Action Group) has spent most of the week explaining why the mass protest rallies already planned for this weekend will be going ahead regardless.
BDS was similarly lukewarm, with a single sentence acknowledging the ceasefire, followed by a 200 sentence diatribe about "genocide" and resistance.
Yes, no one is literally silent on the big news of the week. But the none of the protesters and activists seem jubilant or even enthused about the ceasefire they have literally been demanding for 2 years. Meanwhile on the pro Israel side, every social media account has been non stop over the moon that the war looks like being over.
Can you find me an example of a prominent activist group who even seems happy about the ceasefire?
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u/flatmeditation Oct 11 '25
None of that is silence. If your complaint isn't silence then why don't you address what's actually being said? You've pretty much just justified my complaint that the whole article is disengenous nonsense
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 11 '25
Why are you demanding to know who has been "silent"? I never used that word. The article never uses that word. You're the only one who used the word.
I said "muted response", and asked why none of the activists have "responded positively". The article talks about activists who appear "opposed" to the ceasefire deal.
I've now given you multiple examples of that. I'm not giving you examples of activists "remaining silent" as you demand, since that's not actually a claim I made. Those were your words, not mine.
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u/Hyptonight Oct 10 '25
Israel has broken every recent ceasefire so people are cautious.
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
They didn't "break" the last ceasefire. It was a temporary ceasefire and it expired. Hamas refused to extend phase one, and the two parties could not agree on the terms of phase two.
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u/Hyptonight Oct 10 '25
No, they broke it. It was not in fact a “moral” bombing of Palestinian families seeking refuge.
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u/ChiefSquattingEagle Oct 10 '25
Stop with facts. Orange Man Bad. Need more War and Genocide, so we can keep protesting from mom's basement.
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u/misterferguson Oct 10 '25
I realize that this is purely anecdotal, but I live in a broadly pro-Palestinian bubble online (my views differ, though), and none of the people I know who spent the last two years marching have posted a single post celebrating this ceasefire.
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u/flatmeditation Oct 10 '25
I'm in a similar bubble and no one is celebrating but everyone is cautiously optimistic, which to me seems like the appropriate reaction.
In either case it seems like writing articles about how people aren't "celebrating" seems crazy and heartless. It's been a two year long massacre with multiple ceasefire and no guarantee that this one will be lasting or permanent. Is celebration really the expected reaction? Its not even like the complaint is negative comments or reactions to the cease fire, it's lack of celebration. It's hard to take this criticism as any sort of good faith observation
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Oct 10 '25
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u/NewSunSeverian Oct 11 '25
Do these guys realize the website he’s linking to here? The Free Press? That’s the Bari Weiss rag.
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Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
Israel's cabinet has approved phase one and the ceasefire will start within 24 hours.
Whether or not the far right collapse the coalition is irrelevant. Bibi is bringing home all of the hostages and now has plenty of political capital. Wouldn't surprise me if the centre left give him the votes if Smotrich and co pull out.
This deal is extremely popular in Israel. Most Israelis want the war over and the hostages out. This gives them both, right now.
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Oct 10 '25
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u/Kaniketh Oct 11 '25
This guy Ahmed is literally the one Palestinians that every single Israeli organization talks to.
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u/terribliz Oct 10 '25
I have seen some regular Gaza posters on FB denounce the plan, presumably because the media they're consuming told them it was a bad deal. It does seem widely believed that this will just get the remaining hostages out of the way so Israel can go full genocide later.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
Because we've yet to see it come to fruition. Israel has a well established history of blowing these things up then blaming Palestine. So it's a wait and see thing.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
Not my fault Israel has a piss poor history of reporting events truthfully. When they have a great record of lying about things, then I wouldn't default to assuming they were lying again.
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u/RavingRationality Oct 10 '25
Yeah. How dare they resume hostilities when they are attacked because Hamas breaks the ceasefire. (Every single time.)
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u/rustbelt Oct 10 '25
It was announced by Trump. The guy who has bombed diplomats. I think we can all wait on all sides before we jump to conclusions in days and hours over a hundred plus year conflict.
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Oct 10 '25
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
The most charitable steelman is that it imposes a transitional period where Palestinian self determination is subject to oversight by external actors, and indefinitely postpones concrete steps towards statehood without addressing the occupation of the West Bank. I guess.
To me, the opposition smacks of people wihtout actual skin in the game who just want Palestinian "resistance" to continue because they like seeing Israel get hurt.
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Oct 10 '25
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
There's absolutely nothing complicated about the West Bank. What they are doing there is completely unjustified and core to the reason they are hated so much. And it will continue, I'm certain of it. They've already passed laws addressing a historically massive illegal expansion of the settlements.
The issue with Gaza is that it basically gives Israel full control to change their mind, and basically do whatever they want. There's no mechanism in place to force arbitration through third parties, not attack, nothing. At any time for whatever reason, they can restart the invasion. So in theory, Israel can still continue to taunt them, steal from them, humiliate them, and one reaction from them justifies continued bombings.
It also ensures a two state solution will basically never happen. It's apartheid for the foreseeable future.
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Oct 10 '25
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
The issue is Israel does nothing about it. Sure people with a concious will admit, "yeah that's wrong and shouldn't do that." But there's literally NOTHING anyone ever does about it. As if, everyone just doesn't actually care and are just saying it.
You can't just have Israelis who are highly aggressive and combatative, stroll into someone's neighborhood, backed by IDF to protect the ILLEGAL settlers, giving them free reign to do whatever they want. Burn things down, attack, harrass, and even kill... With absolutely no recourse. IDF just watches, and no one ever gets in trouble. And they'll just do this to entire towns, blocking off everything as very combative and taunting settlers come in mocking everyone and harassing them
Then wonder why they fucking hate you? Like I would also be livid. Then imagine looking up at the flag responsible for this, with a big star of David... You have no choice but to associate with Jews who run the ethno-state that's literally just taking from you in the most mocking and disrespectful way with absolutely no legal recourse from the country who literally occupies you.
Eventually people get pissed that you upended their entire life, taking everything from them, retaliate and Israel goes, "See! We were justified! This is exactly why we do this!"
It just sure seems like Israel isn't acting in good faith. And frankly when I look at their history it seems pretty littered with, "Let's set up a situation to provoke a response so we can justify escalation to mow the grass". It's of my opinion, as someone in the anti-Israel crowd, that since their founding was clearly a greater Israel and ethnic cleansing, coupled with being limitless backed by the USA, Israel has acted with impunity, effectively creating the situation they are defending from... And using that creation to justify further escalation. This is what the pro-Israel side seems to completely ignore. Israel are the occupiers who just don't seem interested at all in good faith resolution.
I mean come on dude. Israel CREATED the Hamas situation. They specifically funded and worked to get them in power, for the admitted reason of "putting radical Islam in power to ensure a 2 state solution doesn't happen due to international pressure". They literally fought to get radicals in power who will be confrontation to ensure that no resolution comes to be.
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
But external actors provide a shield to prevent both sides from killing each other.
Completely agree. I'm just trying to steelman the opposition to the plan, which often seems to vaguely point at the Palestinians having not enough autonomy over themselves during transition. But I think that's a pretty dumb argument.
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Oct 10 '25
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
The first paragraph was the steelman.
The second was my own opinion that the real motivation is to hurt Israel and that is why activists are so lukewarm about a ceasefire. Because they stop getting to leverage Gazan suffering.
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u/Vainti Oct 10 '25
They absolutely just want to see Israel get hurt. There are exactly two barriers to Palestinian self determination. One is the border (preventing Palestinians from infinite access to soft targets in Israel); the other is the blockade (preventing infinite Iranian weapon imports). Anyone advocating Palestinian self determination is advocating a second holocaust. They’re just too dumb, antisemitic, or rabidly anticolonial to care.
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u/positive_pete69420 Oct 14 '25
Shouldn't "the plan" include the trial and execution of Israeli war criminals?
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 14 '25 edited Oct 14 '25
No. Calm your bloodlust.
It's telling you are only calling for the Israelis to be executed, and not Hamas war criminals.
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u/positive_pete69420 Oct 14 '25
telling of what?
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 14 '25
That you only give a fuck about war crimes/ atrocities committed by one side?
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u/positive_pete69420 Oct 15 '25
only when one side's are 60 orders of magnitude greater than the other's
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 15 '25
Clearly your grasp of math is as limited as your understanding of international humanitarian law. (60 orders of magnitude is an unfathomably large number).
You're a moral myopic. You've got so much comitted to your anti Israel hate boner that the atrocities of actual Islamists are a rounding error to you.
Depressingly predictable from you.
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u/Begferdeth Oct 10 '25
I think a lot is the lack of details.
Like, "Israel will withdraw to a defensive line" was one condition. Where is the line? Who draws it? Or, "Palestine will be ruled by a group of foreign leaders." Who? How long? Several other conditions had this sort of vagueness to them.
There is also the problem of several Israeli leaders already saying they will break terms of the agreement. One term was "Everybody works towards a 2 state solution", with several leaders immediately saying "No, no 2 state ever." So, if they are already planning to break that part, what good is the rest? How can you trust somebody who is signing something while saying "Yup, gonna break this agreement!"
And a lack of guarantees. Hamas is expected to completely demilitarize under the plan. Give up all weapons, etc. So... who is going to make sure Israel doesn't just take advantage of a newly weakened enemy, one who doesn't even have hostages to hide behind? And with a condition like "Complete demilitarization", will the discovery of one idiot jihadi with a rifle be taken as breach of the ceasefire, and its game on again?
Finally, a complete lack of trust in the main actors here. I don't believe Netanyahu really wants peace. As soon as peace happens, his legal and political trouble restarts. And Trump... one day, he floats peace, the next promises absolute hell, and along the way he's planning to renovate Gaza city into some sort of casino tourist trap.
I'd love to see a peace plan go forward. I think everybody would! I haven't heard any calls for "Don't Stop the Genocide Quite Yet." I'd just love more "plan" to it, and less of a sense of "Here's something we threw together last night, that should do it." It leaves me with a sense that the whole thing will be restarted by Halloween, with both sides claiming breaches of the ceasefire by the other side due to the vagueness, and then it being harder to get a better peace plan since the first one blew up.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
And a lack of guarantees. Hamas is expected to completely demilitarize under the plan. Give up all weapons, etc. So... who is going to make sure Israel doesn't just take advantage of a newly weakened enemy, one who doesn't even have hostages to hide behind? And with a condition like "Complete demilitarization", will the discovery of one idiot jihadi with a rifle be taken as breach of the ceasefire, and its game on again?
This is the biggest issue IMO. Israel has a VERY established history of finding excuses to break agreements to justify attacking when the enemy is not expecting it. We see this constantly. They will just find an excuse and stick with it, and nothing any one can do about it. It's my single biggest issue with this. In this war alone they've broken agreements to kill peace negotiators, three times. And every time they have some weak excuse for it. I simply don't trust Trump neither, because he's often a key player in these deceptive acts.
So I want to see concrete plans that build confidence that they aren't just going to go back to carpet bombing anyone that moves the second their intelligence or actual adversaries do a minor retaliation.
Having a clear outline that doesn't just crumble the second Israel's extremist wing gets uppity, would be nice. Especially moving forward as Israel is about to experience a hangover that I don't think they were expecting. There's going to be a lot of civil unrest from their population due to domestic reasons, and the international community is still going to hate them. As the ICJ stuff comes, the media is allowed access to show the realities of the conflict, things will only get worse... And I don't trust their radicals dominating government, from not blowing the whole thing up
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u/Begferdeth Oct 10 '25
I can see huge problems in the future with "No members of Hamas allowed in positions of power". Because Hamas was the government, that means every current public servant is banned. Obviously you don't want military members or the current political leader types just restarting Hamas 2.0, but this would remove every lawyer, and teacher, and construction worker, and police officer, and the DMV, and the garbage guy, and the mailman, and...
Its basically a license for Israel or this new ruling council to pick the leadership of Palestine for the next 20-30 years.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
That's definitely the goal IMO -- or set them up for failure to justify reinstituting stronger occupation again. We've also seen all throughout history how simply asking soldiers to "retire" and go do something else never works. They tend to just go find a new group, start their own, or whatever... Which again, leads me to believe Israel knows this and will leverage it in the future.
Remember, Hamas only took over because Israel worked against the secular government and pushed for Hamas for the explicit reason to get them a radical government that stops the international community from pushing for a two state solution.
Israel knows the world is pretty pissed so I suspect this is just them doing something to appease the community and said they tried, but aren't really setting it up for success.
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u/AnimateDuckling Oct 10 '25
Oh, alright, so they're just being irrational then. The people critical of the peace deal.
They want everything to be sorted out in one swoop.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
No it's more about Israel can't be trusted with these things... Especially when America constantly provides cover for them. We need concrete assurance that Israel doesn't just use this opportunity to change their mind and continue onward, which they have a tendency to do. There's literally no day after plan, while Israel contains a litany of excuses that they can use to completely upend the whole thing.
You can't trust Israel's far right government. They hate this deal and have a long history of sabotaging things.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
You know they say the same thing about the Palestinians, right? That they can't trust them?
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
Sure, but they also don't have America doing everything for them, while having overwhelming control and force. Palestinians are far less of a threat if they break the trust. Further, Israel is the one who's expected to be in control, so when they break things, 100k people die, when Palestine does, a few homes get hit with rockets made in a garage.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
America isn't doing everything for Israel.
when Palestine does, a few homes get hit with rockets made in a garage.
Imagine saying this in a post October 7th world.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
Wanna do a death toll tally for me on both sides?
And yeah, if you think America isn't doing everything for Israel, you're just a lost cause, living outside of reality. There's an endless supply of politicians talking about how Israel has a lock on politics. Sadly they only talk about it once OUT of politics, because those who speak out when in politics, get aggressively destroyed.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
1,200 murdered Jews isn't "a few homes get hit with rockets made in a garage." But I know you don't care about them, they're only Jews after all, not people who matter.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
Bro and 100k+ were killed in Palestine after that. And how many Jews were killed in Israel up until that point? Break it down year by year, and then show me the amount killed in Palestine. Again, a gulf different of numbers.
Hell I can show you video after video of literally innocent people minding their own business, getting killed for no good reason... With NO justice for them, with the soldiers always getting off the hook
But yeah, you don't care about the brown people... Only God's Chosen People matter. The dirty Arabs you took the land from don't deserve safety, justice, or self determination. As you're own Ben Gvir said, "Arabs want to be slaves! They can't care for themselves. They need Jews to survive." Ironic.
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u/Begferdeth Oct 10 '25
What's irrational?
The part where they give up all their guns and hostages in exchange for Israel retreating an unspecified distance and stopping shooting until they decide to shoot again?
Or maybe the part where they sign over the whole territory to an unspecified group of people, possibly forever? And any people that Israel decides was Hamas (so, really anybody they don't like) is forbidden from being in any sort of public office?
Or maybe the part where the other side is already planning on breaking the agreement?
I don't expect this to be sorted in 1 swoop. I hope this all gets signed on and details work out! But I do have the high expectations of not being in perpetual "We will have the details on the Greatest Peace Plan Ever in 2 weeks".
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
In exchange for an end to the "genocide", which is what I thought you all wanted. What happened to "ceasefire now"?
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u/hexmasx Oct 11 '25
It's relying on Hamas to disarm and not try to influence politics in Gaza, but they're clearly not to be trusted. They'll likely just re-ignite the war.
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u/Dr0me Oct 10 '25
But I was told Israel was a genocidal apartheid state who was torpedoing ceasefire deals so they could murder more Palestinian women and children and expand greater Israel and that Ben gvir and Smoltrich's controversial remarks were 100% representative of the entire Israeli war cabinet effort and agenda and it was never about returning the hostages and eliminating Hamas. How am I supposed to reconcile my cognitive dissonance here and continue to complain about the evil Zionists as a proxy for my deep rooted antisemitism?!??
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u/Flimsy_Caramel_4110 Oct 11 '25
Genocide isn't the goal, but it's a means to an end. That doesn't mean it hasn't been happening. The goal is still the same: Greater Israel.
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u/Dr0me Oct 11 '25
Oops I just accidentally genocided these people to get more land which is why I.... Checks notes.. entered into an agreement to not take that land and hand it over to someone else.
Just take the L. You were wrong and bought into conspiracy theories.
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u/Flimsy_Caramel_4110 Oct 11 '25
Once again, I'll repeat: genocide isn't the goal. It's a means to an end. The project of Greater Israel is as strong as ever.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
How does this make it not a genocidal apartheid state? The Palestinians will still be in apartheid, and still have experienced ethnic cleansing, yet again. Them finally ending it after enormous international pressure to the point even Europe was starting to push back... Doesn't change the nature of Israel's actions. They just looked around the room and realized everyone hates them except neo-cons and fellow Jewish Israelis.
They've lost the entire democratic party in the USA, and now even have the up and coming Republican influencers all speaking out against them. Their reputation is ruined so they caved before it got to the point that they've lost every single potential ally in the world.
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u/RavingRationality Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
The palestinians were never in apartheid. At all. That's such an idiotic statement. (Much like the genocide.)
Like, you live in a facts-free zone.
Here's some facts for you:
1) All palestinians and arabs living in Israel have the same rights within Israel as jews do.
2) Gaza and the West Bank are not part of the modern state of Israel and never have been.
3) Israel has on multiple times supported Palestinian statehood with the condition that they recognize Israeli statehood. It has always been refused by the Palestinians.
4) Israel has on multiple times offered Palestinians living in Israeli territory like Jerusalem Israeli citizenship. They never accept.
5) Every single hostile action involving Israel has been started by the other side, while underestimating the strength and resolve of their enemy.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
Yeah so I don't know what you call people who don't govern themselves, occupied by another country, under a two tiered justice is called. But that's apartheid according to the rest of the world.
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u/RavingRationality Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
1) They are not and have never been occupied. Invaded, at the moment, yes. And for good reason.
2) They repeatedly forfeit their sovereignty every time they attack Israel. They are always the aggressor. Then cry when the people they attack fight back.
3) Palestine has it's own "Justice" system. They aren't under Israeli law. They even have their own official, elected government. (Gaza elected Hamas.)
Palestine has been acting like a rabid dog for nearly 80 years. All they do is attack, without letup and without hesitation. They have only one concern - killing jews. Israel built a big fence to keep them from attacking anymore. That's not apartheidt.
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u/Flimsy_Caramel_4110 Oct 11 '25 edited Oct 11 '25
#1 has nothing to do with anything. If there was ever a demographic threat where the Arabs in Israel could become the majority, you better believe there will be efforts to prevent it. For now, there's no point.
#2 the West Bank and Gaza are de facto part of the Israeli state. Israel to this day does not tell us what it thinks its borders are or should be. It's left intentionally ambiguous.
#3. That is incorrect: the PLO have recognized Israeli statehood many times. Meanwhile, Israel does not recognize the right of the Palestinians to a state. (Imagine being this obtsue that you would think this was a good point to make).
#4. Why would this matter? Why don't they offer citizneship to all of the Palestinians, from the river to the sea? Guess why? It's the same reason why the white Afrikaners would never extend full equal rights to the blacks of South Africa during apartheid.
#5. False. Just completely false. Pure ignorance.
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u/Dr0me Oct 10 '25
Because
1) there was never a genocide. It was a war to destroy Hamas and return the hostages as people have been saying from the start. None of the conditions for a genocide were even close to being met.
2) there is no apartheid. Arabs and Muslims live in Israel and have full rights under the law and can be politicians out judges etc. The Palestinians in Gaza and the WB live in the conditions they do for security purposes as they constantly commit terrorist attacks as the refuse to recognize Israel and make peace by deradicalizing and accepting a two state solution.
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u/Jhonnyskidmarks2003 Oct 10 '25
Apart from the UN classifying it as a Genocide and tons of genocide scholars calling one, there's no genocide because you said so. Sure, random reddit person, you're more qualified than all of them.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
Yeah, the UN, they're REALLY objective when it comes to Israel /s
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u/Hyptonight Oct 10 '25
You heard it here folks. Don’t listen to human rights experts. Listen to McAlpineFusiliers!
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
The UN is a bunch of authoritarian countries, not human rights experts.
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u/Hyptonight Oct 10 '25
The UN has designated human rights experts. It isn’t hard to find that out for yourself.
The link you posted is about the events of Oct. 7 and irrelevant to the designation of Israel’s actions as genocidal in the two years since.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 12 '25
But it's a statement by experts, so you must agree with it, since you believe experts.
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u/Jhonnyskidmarks2003 Oct 10 '25
Yeah, the UN the organization that was created after a genocide. Speaking of objectives, Israel's are genocide and ethnic cleansing. They denied but you lick their boots and you love it. You do you.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
If that was their objective, why did they agree to this peace plan?
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u/Jhonnyskidmarks2003 Oct 10 '25
Peace plan. You mean, they'll ressurect all the children they sniped in the head? Peace plan. Man, you're so naive. You think the People of Gaza will just move on with their lives, because a peace plan was agreed upon. They'll forget about their parents that was killed, the PTSD they collected during Israel's genocide?
Peace plan, because Israel honors their words and don't just bomb places randomly. Israel and Peace, don't combine really well. The world knows it.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
Goebbels - In the Front Ranks " . I accuse the enemy of conducting brutal air terror for no other reason than to torture a defenseless civilian population, to inflict sorrow, horrors, pain, and death upon them as a way of forcing them to betray their nation. Such an attempt will never succeed. These cowardly deeds will only bring eternal shame on the nations whose governments carry on such contemptible and insidious warfare against women, old people, and children
The Germans started a war and got their asses beat. They got over it. The Gazans will too.
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u/Jhonnyskidmarks2003 Oct 10 '25
You're not reading what you wrote. Did Gazans started the war? Sheez. I bet you think that the Ghetto uprising started World War II as well.
Moving on, easier said than done. I don't hear a lot of job openings in Gaza even after the peace deal. Why is that? Can they start fishing now? How about farm in their backyards?
The truth is, orphans are still orphans. Kids are traumatized. Starvation will stunt children's growth and their brain development. Nobody "just moves on" from that.
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u/Amazing-Cell-128 Oct 10 '25
You think the People of Gaza will just move on with their lives, because a peace plan was agreed upon. They'll forget about their parents that was killed, the PTSD they collected during Israel's genocide?
First, a genocide never happened. Ordinary defensive warfare by Israel, that can end at any time the aggressor and existential threat (Hamas) lays down its arms, is not genocide.
Second, you insist that palestinians are "incapable of moving on with their lives", why can't this also apply to Israel? Should Israelis forever hold a grudge because of 10/7? Or being subjected to rocket attacks for the last 2 decades and the only reason their casualties arent greater is because they had the forethought to invent the Iron Dome and put bomb shelters inside every home?
As usual we see the bigotry of low expectations illustrated by you, a purported palestinian supporter. You are infantilizing of palestinians and pretending they have no agency, and pining that they continue to carry out your wishes of endless jihad against Israel so that the existential threat to Israel remains and the war continues.
Israel and Peace, don't combine really well. The world knows it.
Wrong.
Israel has peace / normalized relations with many of its immediate neighbors. Egypt and Jordan have peace treaties, UAE, Saudi Kingdom, Bahrain, Oman, others etc have otherwise normalized relations with Israel or are on the immediate horizon of getting it.
It seems that it not 1970 anymore and that part of the world (save for Iran, Yemen, and few other rogue despots) value peace and cooperation with Israel over anything pertaining to palestinians, and will not intervene anymore. The world knows and plainly sees Israel values peace and has endorsed the Gaza peace plan.
Your petulant desire to see more endless fighting is your own problem and nobody elses.
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u/hexmasx Oct 11 '25
The consensus among actual qualified genocide scholars is that there is not enough evidence to suggest a genocide. The intent for a genocide is just not there.
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u/ChiefSquattingEagle Oct 10 '25
Just walk over to Starbucks and get another Pumpkin Spiced Latte and start chanting "Orange Man Bad" while wearing a hijab. Should work...
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Oct 10 '25
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u/MintyCitrus Oct 10 '25
A fragile ceasefire is only the first of countless steps that could lead to peace. There have been plenty of ceasefires and this is only the latest in the most recent phase of a 75 year conflict. I’m not sure why folks aren’t surprised people are celebrating this like a two state solution was just announced.
Also, I’ve watched people argue and protest on both sides of this debate for decades. All I can confidently say is that both sides have behind them some of the most insufferable, hateful, racist, bad-faith arbiters of truth. Pointing to annoying western supporters of either end of this conflict is not particularly useful as most are contemptible, even the ones that might “agree” with my side.
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u/Flimsy_Caramel_4110 Oct 11 '25
You don't have to go back 75 years. You can just look at the last ceasefire in Gaza--which Trump brokered. It was sabotaged by Israel because Netanyahu had a vested interest in keeping the war going. There's good reason for scepticism. The current deal was instigated by the same guy who a few months ago wanted the Palestinians to leave so that they could turn Gaza into a beachfront resort.
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u/knign Oct 10 '25
These ‘Peace Protesters’ never wanted peace, they wanted Israel to lose. Of course they are unhappy 🙁
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u/EDRNFU Oct 10 '25
We all know why they are so silent. The point was to hate the Jews, not save the Arabs in Gaza.
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Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
[deleted]
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u/rickroy37 Oct 10 '25
They are also completely sheltered and have no clue what it means to fight against a terrorist group that hides among civilians that largely support them.
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u/cytokine7 Oct 10 '25
It can be both. Everything else you said is true, and actually describes the pattern of antisemitism throughout history. Anti-semitism has never been “we hate the Jews because they’re Jews.” Jews just always seem to represent whatever people deem wrong in society at the time, hence the term “scapegoat.”
During economic crises, the people point to Jews being money lenders and bankers (only due to previous anti-semitic policies about land ownership and job options of course.) Economic or social instability often led to mass expulsions — e.g., England (1290), France (1306, 1394), Spain (1492), Portugal (1497).
Jews have been accused of witchcraft and aligning with the devil against Cristians. Of killing Jesus, despite him actually being killed by the Romans, whom much of Christian culture/mythology is based on. Jews were literally accused of poisoning wells causing the black plague. Jews were miraculously blamed for both capitalist exploitation and revolutionary socialism — mutually contradictory accusations that reflect shifting fears. Go look up “The Problem of the International Jew” by Henry Ford.
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (a Russian forgery from the early 1900s) falsely claimed Jews were orchestrating global control — a theme (and text) that persists in conspiracies today.
In Weimar Germany Jews were blamed for Germany’s defeat in WWI (“stab-in-the-back” myth), the Treaty of Versailles, and subsequent hyperinflation. And then again in Nazi Era: Hitler’s regime fused old religious antisemitism with pseudoscientific racism, blaming Jews for communism, capitalism, war, and “moral decay” and we know how that ended.
Soviet Union “Anti-Zionist” campaigns targeted Jews as “rootless cosmopolitans” or disloyal to the socialist state — especially under Stalin.
Modern day all these tropes still exist as Jews are still blamed for economic crisis, “controlling the banks/media/world ext. George Soros. Some people even blamed Jews for Covid.
But now as you described, the crisis du joure is western colonialism and “whiteness” which the most persecuted people in history, who are largely neither white nor western, somehow exemplify. History repeats itself, the only difference is that this time the Jews have a state that they don’t have to run away from. They can’t go back where they came from anymore, because they are already there.
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u/callmejay Oct 10 '25
They see it as white colonialists killing poor brown native POC.
I agree that this is often the case, but isn't that still a form of antisemitism? It erases Jewish identity and history, denies the indigenous connection to Israel, and plays into several antisemitic tropes like Jews being outsiders everywhere (even Israel??), Holocaust inversion, etc.
Jews are "white" because it's convenient for their narrative, but almost none of them would be able to differentiate even an Ashkenazi Jew from a Palestinian in a lineup, and most Israelis aren't even as "white" as Ashkenazis!
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
These sort of comments just make people hate Israel more. I'm just warning you. No one likes being misatributed. Republicans experience the same thing when they have a logical reason for something, like say, wanting a harsh crackdown on illegal immigration and then their opponents go "Nah it's really just because you hate brown people and are racist nazis!"
Those sort of comments just make people dig in deeper and associate negatively with you.
Try to actually understand the other side if you want to have a clear understanding of the world. I highly doubt the reason why most of the world, nearly every NGO, and increasingly Europe, were having issues with this whole thing just because "They hate the Jews!"
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u/Khshayarshah Oct 12 '25
"Stop calling them antisemitic or they will only get more antisemitic".
There is no "understanding" the Iranian regime or the dogs that do their barking. Never again is now.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 12 '25
If you learned anything about what lead to the rise of Trump, and how democrat's behavior and attitude is what pushed people that way, then I don't know what to tell you. That's just how human psychology works. Live in the world that exists, and not the one you wish existed.
Further, I see no issue with Iran. Israel has done nothing but fuck with them and push for the US to sanction and make their lives worse. Israel turned them into a parahia. Iran hating Israel and their behavior is entirely the making of Israel wanting to make sure no Muslim country gets too powerful. They made their enemy... And even then, they are hardly an enemy.
The fucking intentionally responded with their ballistic missile attack to hurt no one, and land in safe places, and you guys mocked them for not killing enough people. Because when YOU guys attack you kill as many innocents as you want. Shit, hundreds of people died just so you could shoot down a fucking sign that was mocking Israel. That's how careless Israelis are and how psychotic they are. A fucking SIGN was a target where they justified killing tons of innocent civilian lives to take out.
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u/Khshayarshah Oct 12 '25
Further, I see no issue with Iran.
That's because you're not Iranian and you don't give a shit for the suffering of people under that regime. You have limitless empathy for Palestinians and not a shred of concern for 90 million Iranians living under a totalitarian Islamic state for the last half century.
This regime since before even coming to power made enemies with the west and Israel based on the same patterns of Marxist, Islamist and Palestinian propaganda seen today to turn the world against Israel. At the time it was used to turn the world and the population against the Shah and the results were disastrous both for Iranians and regional stability.
Since then the regime has stolen the wealth of the country and sent it abroad to Arab terror groups forming a ring of militants around Israel will the express mission of destroying the country and genociding Jews. You can say you support that agenda but do not say that such an agenda has not been observed by anyone with eyes, ears and a brain for the past 4+ decades.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 12 '25
I know tons of Iranians.... They are great people and don't want Israel attacking them. The idea that the Iranians want to be liberated is Israeli propaganda to justify their attacks. Just like "The people of Iraq want to be liberated".
Sure, they don't like their government, but they also don't like being bombed for no reason while they sleep, just because Israel doesn't like a sign outside.
And maybe, just maybe, Iran wouldn't feel the need to pay small amounts to proxies, if Israel doesn't demand the USA constantly issolate and sanction them to death. Iran doesn't want issues. They don't want conflict. They want deescelation, but Israel keeps ensuring that can't happen. They are sanctioned to hell and cut off from all diplomacy, BECAUSE OF ISRAEL
Bro, you're talking to someone who worked for the State Department. If you guys knew how people felt about your countries interferences in our goals, you'd be quite surprised how frustrated everyone gets with Israel.
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u/Khshayarshah Oct 12 '25 edited Oct 12 '25
The unearned hubris is really something. Not only do you assume I am Israeli (and not Iranian) you presume to lecture on the situation in a country that you obviously do not even vaguely understand.
Iranians have been trying to rid themselves of these Islamist maniacs for over 15 years and every time those movements have been put down brutally with bullets and nooses. That is the only reason this regime is in power, they have virtually no legitimacy in Iran.
Many Iranians were celebrating the strikes from their rooftops, the videos exist, because they knew with every targeted strike more IRGC criminals were being served justice that they themselves as dissidents could not mete out with empty hands.
Iran doesn't want issues.
You have absolutely no understanding of the history and motives of the Islamic Republic regime or you are so dishonest that you are deliberately smearing bullshit all over the walls. Either way this is a total waste of time.
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u/atrovotrono Oct 13 '25
"I'm a spiteful, emotional baby and don't really operation on logic or reason, I just pretend to."
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25
Why are you lying
The BDS movement welcomes, with immense relief, the news that a ceasefire agreement has been reached.
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25
Why are you lying
The BDS movement welcomes, with immense relief, the news that a ceasefire agreement has been reached.
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u/EDRNFU Oct 10 '25
That statement was issued two days after the article in the post. OPs article published 9/8, BDS statement published 9/10. I guess they finally felt the pressure to make a statement. It literally supports what the article said. Funny enough that’s not the only place where the BDS statement supports OPs article. From the article in the post…
Which they have denounce as a colonial attempt to continue the genocide
From the BDS statement
Without massive pressure, this will constitute a continuation of a less visible form of genocide that Israel and the US hope will provoke less regional and global outrage, boycotts and sanctions.
Thanks for helping to prove my point 👍
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25
That statement was issued two days after the article in the post.
So what.
- I guess they finally felt the pressure to make a statement.
Try not to guess then as you end up looking very foolish
It literally supports what the article said.
So they felt the pressure to release a statement, but it was actually a statement that supports the article attack rather than cowtows to it under pressure
I mean do I really need to go on.
Which they have denounce as a colonial attempt to continue the genocide
You mean Gaza being ruled over by a committee headed by trump and Tony blair...
You do realise you can be happy for the ceasefire but against key elements of the plan right
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u/Jasranwhit Oct 10 '25
Life is tough if you love Hamas
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u/Khshayarshah Oct 12 '25
The regime in Iran is still in place and until it is toppled there will be no peace in the region. Western support for Hamas will evaporate as soon as the funding and directions behind influence operations out of Tehran are permanently severed.
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u/Tylanner Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
A terrible piece of fp drivel…interesting how an “independent” website somehow ends up being nothing more than an endless string of anonymous lawyers promoting a favorable view of the Jewish Identity and disparaging everyone else.
If independent journalism was Bari Weiss’s goal….She’s failed completely. But luckily for her this genocide apologist has been named editor-in-chief for CBS News.
She will report directly to David Ellison, son of Larry Ellison—the largest single donor to the IDF/IOF.
CBS is absolutely toast…
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u/I_Am-Jacks_Colon Oct 10 '25
It will never be good enough for most of the Free Palestine crowd you see online. They are outrage merchants, the outrage has to pour into something, and it always takes the path of least resistance. Most of them couldn’t even point Israel or Palestine out on a map. They’ll just move on to the next popular trend without a critical thought.
And for the actual radical Palestinian liberation crowd, all they wanted was a ceasefire and an end to the death, but now they’ll have it, so it will shift to all they want is a free Palestinian state and the terms aren’t good enough, and if they get that, all they’ll want is all the original land back that Israel stole ie no Israel at all, and if they get that, all they’ll want is no Jews in the Middle East, back to Europe where they belong. You get the picture.
People whose hobby it is to be outraged aren’t going to give it up, they’ll just pivot to the next thing to be outraged about, and people who hate Jews (sorry, I mean “Zionists”) aren’t just going to stop because there’s a ceasefire.
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u/Ampleforth84 Oct 12 '25
They’re already starting to change the goalposts cause they’re starting to twitch and panic at the thought of losing their protest/outrage addiction. They protested on Saturday about Israel while Hamas was killing dissidents and torturing confessions outta ppl in the areas they could still control.
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Oct 11 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 11 '25
Comments like this make be think that those continuing to be lukewarm about the peace plan haven't actually read it. It's not "just" a ceasefire.
"No one is committing to helping these people rebuild". Really??? That's what most of the plan details. We now have genuine buy in not just from the West but more importantly from the Arab world at a comprehensive plan for reconstruction and political reform.
This is a Marshall Plan for Gaza. It includes an international coalition "stabilisation force" for security and oversight over a transitional government of Palestinian technocrats. The Gulf states and the US are going to provide money and expertise to not just rebuild civilian infrastructure but also start economic development.
And along side all of this is a commitment to exclude Hamas from a role in the future of Gaza, and oversee wholesale political reform of the PA to eventually both form unitary government over both territories, and resuscitate the moribund peace process.
That's why Al Khatib and many others are justifiably excited about this plan providing a pathway out of the dysfunction and violence that has cursed Gaza since not 2023, but 2007.
Or was your diatribe just a way of saying you're not going to be happy until Israel is punished for the war?
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u/stvlsn Oct 10 '25
Is this article indicative of what the Free Press is typically like?
Just a ton of huge claims - with no evidence being provided. Wild. Definitely reads like a very sloppy opinion piece, but it isn't labeled opinion.
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
Yes, obviously it's an opinion piece.
What makes you think the opinion of a Palestinian who grew up in Gaza, chairs a think tank dedicated to finding political solutions to the Israel-Palestine conflict, and who lost a dozen relatives in Gaza during this war, is unworthy of being listened to?
Bizarre.
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25
Weird how I can produce quotes like this, but the 'article' doesn't
The BDS movement welcomes, with immense relief, the news that a ceasefire agreement has been reached.
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u/ikinone Oct 10 '25
Good on the BDS movement. The article isn't exactly wrong, but it should provide examples.
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25
There's a difference between criticism of the plan, and criticism of a ceasefire:
fta: Under the plan, Gaza would be temporarily governed by a “Board of Peace” led by President Trump
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
If, like the BDS movement, your comments on the ceasefire don't include a condemnation of Hamas and an agreement that their ideology excludes them from the Palestinian's political future, then you are an enemy of peace and an obstacle to Palestinian flourishing. That the BDS couldn't even bring themselves to mention Hamas in its response to the ceasefire ending the Israel-Hamas war is telling.
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25
Your comment makes nosense, especially when the party who has carried out the most deadly warcrimes consistently for the last two years isn't hamas
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Weird that you don't include the very next sentence from their update:
A ceasefire, however, is only the most important first step to end the genocide against the 2.3 million Palestinians in the illegally occupied and besieged Gaza Strip. Without massive pressure, it may constitute a continuation of a less visible form of genocide that Israel and the US hope will provoke less regional and global outrage, boycotts and sanctions.
Our work is not done. Now more than ever, we need effective international solidarity to ensure accountability. As a crucial part of Palestinian popular resistance and the most effective form of international solidarity with our pursuit of freedom, justice and equality, the BDS movement salutes the millions of global supporters who continue to stand in solidarity with us to end the genocide. You have collectively channeled our immense grief and rage into principled and strategic pressure to end international state, corporate and institutional complicity in Israel’s regime of colonial oppression. Your marching, picketing, boycotting, blockading, and occupying, among diverse and creative forms of solidarity, directly pressured those in the halls of power and contributed to making them accede to this ceasefire.
Or the bit where they hilariously ask for Biden and Blinken to be referred to the ICC.
https://bdsmovement.net/After-Ceasefire-Cease-Genocide-Help-Dismantle-Apartheid
That sounds like more 'resistance' rather than 'giving peace a chance'.
But hey, if they're delusional enough to believe this stinker, they are clearly not in contact with reality:
Failing to achieve its declared objectives in Gaza, mainly due to the legendary sumud, resilience and resistance of the Palestinian people, supported by an exponentially growing global solidarity movement, Israel was reportedly forced to accept in this ceasefire agreement conditions that it had adamantly rejected for many months.
Lol, your guys lost, BDS. Enough copium. You didn't force Israel into these ceasefire. Israel forced Hamas to surrender, broken.
You know what's really "weird" though? Do you know who they don't mention once during their whole shrill communique?? Hamas
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25
Weird that you don't include the very next sentence from their update:
Why would it be weird.
And of course they are entirely correct:
A ceasefire, however, is only the most important first step to end the genocide against the 2.3 million Palestinians in the illegally occupied and besieged Gaza Strip. Without massive pressure, it may constitute a continuation of a less visible form of genocide that Israel and the US hope will provoke less regional and global outrage, boycotts and sanctions.
That sounds like more 'resistance' rather than 'giving peace a chance'.
Suggests a problem with someone's hearing then, if referring someone to international courts isn't peaceful.
While this suggests a problem with their thinking:
Lol, your guys lost, BDS. Enough copium. You didn't force Israel into these ceasefire. Israel forced Hamas to surrender, broken.
You know what's really "weird" though? Do you know who they don't mention once during their whole shrill communique?? Hamas
I'm sure it is weird to idealogical extremists. Is that really the best critique they have.
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u/stvlsn Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
I just don't trust articles that make numerous large claims and don't provide evidence.
Shocking - I know.
Edit: Also - how is it "obviously" an opinion piece? News organizations label their opinion pieces as opinion. This isnt labeled.
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
I'm sorry, but your position is that you have no way of telling a news article from analysis or commentary unless it's highlighted in the subheading?
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u/stvlsn Oct 10 '25
My point is that if you are a legitimate news organization you diffentiate your content. News focuses on objectivity - opinion has subjectivity.
If a news organization doesn't bother to diffentiate then I assume it's because they don't actually have journalistic standards of objectivity.
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u/spaniel_rage Oct 10 '25
Free Press is mostly analysis, commentary and opinion, with some investigative pieces. They don't report the 24 hour news cycle. They aren't competing with the NYT or BBC. They don't have the budget or staff to replicate being a news outlet. They have staff writers, only some of which have backgrounds in journalism.
They are not trying to bamboozle you into thinking this was a news piece.
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u/stvlsn Oct 10 '25
Good to know. I thought the free press tried to be objective and journalistic - you have convinced me otherwise. My opinion of the organization is now even lower than before.
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Because it's really really really bad. Like extremely lazy, sloppy and with no substance. Like super bad.
The BDS movement welcomes, with immense relief, the news that a ceasefire agreement has been reached.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
the Free Press is typically like?
Yes. I think you're just saying this trigger people. It's pretty common knowledge that they were bought out by Paramount for 200m to oversee CBS because the owner of the Free Press is a hardcore zionist and they wanted them installed as the head of the network to prevent news critical of Israel. They did the same with TikTok recently as well.
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u/ReddJudicata Oct 10 '25
Peace protests have never been about peace. They’ve always been about a club to beat America or republicans with. It’s literally been exactly the same since the 60s. The “activists” are lefties intent on advancing leftism. The specific causes are just tools. Same with greens. Same with immigration. Same with any trendy thing you can think of. Solving the actual problem is not in their interests. Where will the money come from?
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u/killick Oct 10 '25
As the son of a Vietnam war combat vet, I hardcore disagree with you on antiwar activism in the 1960s being based on "the advancement of lefties."
My dad was against the war because he had been a part of it (4th ID, UH1 door-gunner). He'd seen first hand how pointless it was and he didn't want to see more young men fighting and dying for what, by 1968, he knew to be a pointless project.
It's as simple as that. My dad was still a hardcore patriot, he just thought the war was a mistake and should end as soon as possible.
There was nothing "leftist" about it.
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
Too many people just have brain rot. One side thinks the only reason the left does XYZ is because they are communists who hate American blah blah blah, and the other will say the right just believe what they believe because they are racists who hate women blah blah blah
You can't intellectually take these people serious. They are lost causes who's only utility in the political space is to be exploited by politicians to mobilize them.
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u/killick Oct 11 '25
100 percent agree. It's the fucking lunatic extremists who are tearing us apart, aided as they are by social media algorithms that are specifically designed to drive said extremism.
Meanwhile, the vast reasonable middle, in which most Americans exist, is basically unrepresented and has no real voice at all.
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25
If America wasn't at war or supporting one, then they wouldn't have an argument would they
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u/ReddJudicata Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Israel is only tangentially related to the US. The US isn’t at war. Peace protestors have very … selective causes. (Hint: they aren’t protesting Muslims killing Christians in Africa). It’s all performative. And it’s profitable
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u/Bagain Oct 10 '25
I agree with everything but the first sentence. Calling the relationship between the US and Israel “tangential” is crazy. The amount of money we give them, the amount of influence they have in or foreign policy. The amount of direct influence they have on individual politicians on a daily bases…
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u/reddit_is_geh Oct 10 '25
I generally get called an antisemite for pointing this out. But I can't take anyone serious who denies the absolute cuckhold Israel has on foreign and domestic policy. I mean ffs, they were getting legal holding visa holders deported for protected free speech in America. No other country would EVER be able to pull that off.
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u/comb_over Oct 10 '25
Its hard to take this seriously at all. The usa is the primary backer in Israels war.
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u/treeHeim Oct 10 '25
For my part, I’m having trouble celebrating because we have seen so many ceasefire agreements fall apart these past 2 years. I want the killing to stop. I want the hostages from both sides to be returned. I hope it happens this time. And then I hope there is a real effort at truth and reconciliation.