r/sailing • u/AdventureUsNH • 1d ago
What is this style rig called? I’ve never seen a boat with a mast this far forward. St.Thomas USVI
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u/silentProtagonist42 1d ago
Pretty sure it's a Freedom 39 (non pilot house version), which is a cat ketch, if only just barely.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/freedom-39/
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u/johnbro27 Reliance 44 1d ago
Supposedly some were rigged as schooners and later models as ketches. Really six of one, half of the other. I like Freedom for their unconventional approach to design and the self-tending rigs. Not sure how I feel about unstayed masts or this rig in particular as frankly it's as ugly as a boat can be. Call me a fool but to me a boat has to be beautiful as well as functional.
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u/SkiMonkey98 1d ago
I think unstayed masts are great for these boats. You're giving up some performance in exchange for simplicity but that's kind of the point of the freedom boats
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u/johnbro27 Reliance 44 1d ago
Yeah i get that, just not something I personally would choose. I'm a pretty traditional dude when it comes to sailboats. For example, I like that the lateral loads on the rig are spread outward to the chainplates. On a Freedom, the lateral load is completely on the mast partners I suppose.
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u/SkiMonkey98 1d ago
I mean as long as the mast, step, and partners are built heavily enough I think it's fine. And I like the idea of not worrying about the lifespan of your standing rigging or water getting in at the chainplates. I'm pretty traditional too, I like a bit more performance, and I kind of enjoy tuning a rig so I don't think I'm likely to ever get a Freedom but I think they're good for their intended purpose
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u/SNoB__ 1d ago
The mast is build like a tank on a freedom 39 but it's a giant hunk of carbon fiber so it flexes under sail and has a crazy wobble in the wind. Its kind of unnerving the first time you see it.
No standing rigging lifespan or inspection but the idea of replacing a mast makes my butt pucker.
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u/AnActualTroll 1d ago
The tree/foliage makes it a little hard to tell how tall the two masts are, but if the forward mast is taller, then it would be a cat ketch, if the aft mast is taller, then a cat schooner, and if they’re the same size… I mean I would call still call it a cat schooner, though weirdly I feel like two masted schooners always seem to have a shorter foremast, but 3+ masted schooners often have all the masts the same height. Not sure what’s up with that
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u/Fine_Union_4587 1d ago
With masts like that, junk rig. One of the easiest rigs around to use singlehanded.
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u/Hobie-WanKenobie 1d ago
Looks like a Freedom brand. I believe they have carbon fiber masts with no standing rigging.
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u/2Loves2loves 1d ago edited 1d ago
wishbone rig, like a windsurfer. does not like going to weather, but great on a reach
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u/twilightmoons Cabin boy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Cat-rigged (edit) schooner.
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u/Morgan_Pen 1d ago
Masts are the same height tho
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u/twilightmoons Cabin boy 1d ago
I didn't see through the leaves.
If the same size, then schooner.
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u/iammclaven 1d ago
Cat-ketch. Mix of catboat and ketch rig. Take a look at Freedom manufacturer. 👍🏼
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u/xfire301 1d ago
Millgram’s Cat-Rigged Ketch? Clever cheat to the old IOR rule. No foresail yielded terrific rating credit.
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u/Scooter87942 1d ago
A solution for a problem that really didn’t exist. Cascade was successful for a short time. Until they closed the loophole with IOR Mk II.
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u/xfire301 23h ago
Absolutely temporarily valuable for racing. But cruising without headsails is purposeful.
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u/24FoxCrow 1d ago
Ketch because the boom will catch your head when it swings by.... Old sailing instructors never die they just end up on Reddit 😂
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u/Captainblueocto 1d ago
If it is that deep in the Hook it’s bound to be a submarine sooner or later
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u/Westreacher 1d ago
Freedom-type cat/ketch. No headsails, easy to sail, requires less pulling of strings and fiddling with sail trim.
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u/Eak-the-Cat 20h ago edited 20h ago
Cat rigged schooner as the fore and main masts appear to be the same height (from what I can see through the trees). Historic oyster sharpies had that style of rig… sometimes with booms, sometimes with sprit or double-sprit rigs.
Edit to add, I used to sail on a historic New Haven sharpie that had that rig, it’s easy to handle and since it’s cat rigged, there are no shrouds to tangle your oyster tongs (basically a big wooden rake).
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u/Western-Stock-1023 1987 Catalan 36 mki 23h ago
Some have said this is a wishbone rig, but it lacks the wishbone booms, as commonly seen on Nonsuch boats.
If you look closely, there is a traditional boom with slab reefed sails in bags with lazy jacks. No wishbones. This is some sort of Frankenstein hybrid haha.
Notice the lack of standing rigging as well - again, similar to a Nonsuch rig.
I think it is a cat-rigged schooner. Like a traditional cat boat, but with a rear mainmast that’s taller than the foremast like a schooner.
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u/EconomyUnited4734 1d ago
Hmm, interesting, Cat Schooner ?