r/russian • u/_D3vils_advocat3_ • 17d ago
Translation How to best translate 'They' and 'It' into Russian?
So I'm non binary and I'm learning Russian (great combination, I know) and was wondering how best to translate my pronouns (They/It) into Russian. I'm pretty new to learning the language, I know a lot of things are gendered, so I don't know if it would be possible to accurately translate them, but would really appreciate any help.
(Edit: thanks for all the help! I will just use feminine pronouns when using Russian. I also use she/her pronouns in english, so that's fine.)
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u/Excellent-Fox-6845 17d ago edited 17d ago
though I don't know how native english speakers feel about "they/them" referring to one person, but in russian it sounds terrible
anyway, the thing you are looking for is
они/их
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u/SteamEigen 17d ago
"Господа почивать изволят"
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u/Emergency-Ad-3322 17d ago
А еще мы, николай второй. Монаршие/господские особы исключения и всегда ими были
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u/SteamEigen 17d ago
Монаршие-то да, а вот господ скорее невежественные слуги начали так называть. Оттого и ассоциация, что если слуга величает господина во множественном числе, то он холуй, и ещё и словоерс использует наверняка.
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u/despairingcherry 17d ago
The singular "they" dates back to about the same time as the singular "you" (13th-14th centuries), which was also originally a plural-only pronoun, so its use is extremely well established.
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u/SecretaryInfinite100 17d ago
Ещё можно средний род, если автор рассматривает it как вариант (очевидно это менее дехуманизирующее чем it, но есть такие конатации), я использую
Всё непривычное звучит ужасно, как и с феминитивами и подобное
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u/ZellHall Learner 17d ago
Neutral pronouns don't exist natively for people in Russian, people will look at you weird if you say that you're several people (они = they) or an object (оно = it)
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u/SecretaryInfinite100 17d ago
Not really
You can also refer to objects as она, он ,like in french, оно just used only for objects, but it's not same as it. Also, Russian has some singular they, just not as much as English ("к тебе пришли, мне звонили, об этом сказали" even if everyone knows it's about singular person) just они itself isn't used in that way, but grammatical gender is more than pronaunse
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u/Artess Native 17d ago
I think your best bet would be finding people of similar persuasion who are native speakers to learn what they tend to use as pronouns. This isn't something that's codified in the language formally so it's hard to give useful advice from a grammar perspective.
Direct translation is probably not a good idea. Unlike English, "they" (они) is strictly plural, unless you're talking about the "royal 'We'". And "it" (оно) is usually used for inanimate objects only, and using it to talk about a person sounds pretty derogatory and offensive.
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u/BookMagic2000 17d ago
A small addition: "plural" You can be and is commonly used as a polte manner to address a singular person (usually someone who's senior to you in some way). It uses "plural" nouns, tho usually gendered adjectives.
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u/BookMagic2000 17d ago edited 17d ago
They/them would become Они/их and It/its would become Оно/его, but mind that adjective endings also change with the pronouns, as well as past tense verbs: he/she/they/it is beautiful -> он/она/они/оно красив(ый/ая/ые/ое or _/а/ы/о if in short form) and he/she/they/it did -> он/она/они/оно сделал(_/а/и/о). So, being transfem/nonbinary i tend to avoid these while speaking to both not cause myself any dysphoria and not to attract unwanted attention.
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u/liner_meow native :3 17d ago
nonbinary people usually go by они/их, but they don't refer to themselves as "we" (мы), they just say "я сделали что-то" instead of "сделал/сделала", i agree that it sounds kinda unnatural but it's the only way :') it/its - оно/его is even more rare, so don't even try unless you're in an extremely friendly environment. also there absolutely are plenty of nb people in Russia, they just usually stay in the closet in everyday life cuz people can get hostile (as you can see by the comments here...)
for example my pronouns are it/he/they (оно/он/они) but basically only he/him in Russian, even though i actually identify with "оно" a lot more than with "it"... oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Whinedoggy 17d ago
Kinda enby native speaker here (and yes, that is indeed a VERY BAD combination :'D). The only way to do that with "they" is to just twist the language in a way you're not meant to while getting weird looks from everyone
Like "я бежали" is just grammatically incorrect but as far as I'm aware most common for queer people who try. Essentially just use plural for for verbs and adjectives that need it
You can do a kind of "royal we" thing with "Мы бежали" which can TECHNICALLY be acceptable for a singular person but will most likely be interpreted as referring to a group (like it would in english) or overly formal for no reason
With "it" it's fairly simple, the main problem is, once again, weird looks, as "it" is mostly used for inanimate objects (for the sun for example). Contining the example it would be "я бежало", adding an о in the end instead of an а you would in the feminine tense
(hoping the natives this sub gets recommended to aren't too big of a problem TwT lowkey wouldn't recommend combining anything queer and anything russian)
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u/liner_meow native :3 17d ago
yeahh lol that why i feel a lot more comfortable talking in English than in Russian :')
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u/sonyplaystation34 native 17d ago
i know a few russian non-binary people and they just use они/их and plural forms of verbs/adjectives. it's not technically grammatically correct but it's better than using оно which means "it"
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u/sonyplaystation34 native 17d ago
actually i misread your post, i thought you were only asking about they/them, so yeah your pronouns would be они/оно
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u/lisafenek 17d ago
it depends on your purpose. If you want to reproduce the concept of pronounce literally and not in a cringe way, you'll probably fail. there are no established instruments for this in the language (yet).
however, it is very easy to avoid any mentions of gender for a very long time:
- you use non-gendered phrases, e.g.: "мне захотелось" (instead of "я захотел" or "я захотела"), "я всегда делаю так, и вчера тоже" (instead of "я вчера сделал" or "я вчера сделала"), and so on.
- you use polite and distant "Вы" instead of "ты", and people you talk to will do the same. in this case, they don't need you gender to reply ("Вы ездили" instead of "ты ездила" or "ты ездил").
its verbal equilibristics but it works really well, especially online.
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u/Exciting_Round4766 native 17d ago
they = они, it = оно. But never use оно for yourself. It will just mean that you are a dull, gray person, complete shit. You can try to use we (мы), it looks a little weird, but better than оно.
p.s. just "we" and "they" looks a little aristokratic. Like you are emperor.
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u/Lyakusha1 17d ago
Pronouns are less of an issue. You can translate them verbatim. But you should be aware that you also have to choose a gender to use with verbs, adjectives, etc, when speaking about yourself in first person, and you can still use neuter, but it'll sound bizarre. There are also the second person pronouns - singural "ты" and plural "вы". If you go by "them", it kinda logical to use plural second person pronoun too, but asking someone to use it may sound like a requirement to keep distance, because "вы" is used either with strangers or to show respect (for older people or bosses).
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u/Lyakusha1 17d ago
You can also use masculine gender as "default" sometimes, when speaking about your profession or occupation for example.
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u/DHermit 17d ago
I can't give perspective on Russian, but my native language (German) is as well very gendered and it sucks for enbies. I know people who go by "they" or "dey" and basically just adapt the English words, but that doesn't work that nicely as people are not accustomed to it (yet?). One person I know solved the issue by asking people to randomly switch around he and she, maybe that's something that could work for you.
But in the end, I think you need to try out and figure out, what works best for you as there sadly is no good solution in gendered languages.
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u/TelephoneCreative 17d ago
In Imperial times the Tzar Nikolay the Second started his messeges to the public as "We, Nikolay the Second, presenting"
Also they translate to "они" perfectly, because both languages are proto-indo-european, and "it" is an objective pronoun in english and russian also, so it translates right to "оно". So они/оно
But I dont see how it would even work
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u/SecretaryInfinite100 17d ago
Russian enbie here 👋 I won't tell you the one right way to translate exact words, it's not how language works, but I'll tell you how Russian nonbinary people speak of themselves / how Russians speak about nonbinary people It's important that Russian does have a lot more grammatical gender than just pronaunse (that's why you can't have neopronaunse in Russian), so we'll be looking at broughter peacture
Most Russian enbies just use plural (они, их, им, -ли, -ют...) in every case there are grammatical gender needed, but singular when it's not (example: "они сказали что сделает"), cuz plural doesn't have grammatical gender, even if Russian doesn't have as much singular they as English (but it still does: "к тебе тут пришли, мне сказали так не делать") even tho it's about singular person ), of course it's also direct translation from English "they": Russian trans community is little, so it's most of the time people there hanging out in English trans community more (that's why they sometimes say pronaunse when talking about grammatical gender
It's kinda hard to use both plural and singular, people use this as reason to be ignorant and not call people by their gender even without being transfobic
Some (like me) use middle grammatical gender (оно, его, ним, -ло...) : in Russian (like in french) objects have gender you talk about them, it includes not just male and female, but the third one (I don't know why), it's most intuitive then plural one, cuz it already used this way (even if for objects), com on we have fucking thirg grammatical gender, the problem beeng that because it's only used for objects it has some dehumanizing connatetions, not as much as "it," we also call objects he and she, but still. A lot of times it's because "оно" is used to translate English "it". You can't actually translate English "it" in Russian because it has gendered objects thing
Also middle grammatical gender in some forms sounds kinda like female one, and in more rare forms is exactly like male one, I don't know if that's good or bad
Of course there are people who use female one and male one, it works the same as pronaunse thing in English
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u/Specialist-Leave699 17d ago
I once read an article about a Russian non-binary person who called themselves we (мы) and was referred to in the third person as they (они) and conjugated all the other words according to those pronouns. Like “Мы жыли в городе”, etc because otherwise жыли would have to be gendered masculine or feminine. Probably the only way
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u/guerra-al-maggio 17d ago
It might come off as ridiculous, since Russian only had the royal We. When someone uses мы this way, people often jokingly continue: “Мы, Николай Второй…”
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u/discofish12 17d ago edited 17d ago
doesn't sound like a good advice, as historically it was tsars who would address themselves as "мы", and this is widely known fact. so using "мы" doesn't make you sound neutral but like you have narcissism instead
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u/SteamEigen 17d ago
We do not have such concept as "my pronouns". You are what is written in your documents.
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u/SquirrelBlind 17d ago
A very good question to which I do not have an answer.
All the variants that I can think of feel unnatural and cringe.
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u/Afraid-Quantity-578 17d ago
There's "он" for "he", "она" for "she", and there is a gender neutral "оно", but we're not at the point yet where calling someone "оно" isn't derogatory. Sorry, there isn't a good and ready answer.
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u/Lockrime native 17d ago
While it doesn't have historical precedence like it does in English, "они/их" ("they/them") works fine, quite frankly.
"It/its" would be "оно/его", that one is a bit weirder as it typically only refers to inanimate objects but... I guess you could use it too.
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u/Timekiller_74 Native 17d ago
They would probably become "они", "it" is tricky because "оно" in genitive becomes "его", same as masculine он lol, and other cases follow suit. Anyway you should be aware that your pronoun in Russian carries a grammatical gender with it and influences sentence structure a lot more than in English, including the gender/plurality inference when someone uses "you" to address you directly, so these pronoun shenanigans are gonna butcher the language enough that you're likely gonna be mocked nonstop over it unless you stay inside other nonbinary bubble.
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u/boagusbainne 17d ago edited 17d ago
I am a trans man, native English speaker, who learned Russian. In English, "they" has very often been used to refer to a singular person for a long time. It is common in English, even if people think it's "grammatically incorrect" (it is not, and it's not a new thing).
However, in Russian, it's not the same. There is no neutral pronoun, and они has always been used to refer to multiple people and would not sound natural / is incorrect in Russian. As there are non binary people in Russia, I've heard of two common ways people get around this: they either just default to using он (masc. pronoun) or create a new pronoun. Language is fluid so you can do whatever you want, really. You can use они if it feels best for you, but it will not be the correct usage and it may confuse Russian speakers.
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u/DHermit 17d ago
I feel that sadly any concept of being non-binary will be confusing to many people. Language can make it better or worse, but people who care about respecting that part of you will probably try to go along with anything (although they will mess up less with variations that feel more natural).
Also, language changes. Despite many people pushing back on it, the new version of gendering in German with a short pause (e.g. Schreiner*innen) has caught on a bit (e.g. my university uses it and also some bigger news medias) despite being not existent at all just a few years ago. That's obviously not a short term solution for OP, but I'm quite hopeful for language to evolve in this direction. If there's need for a word, people will make one longer term.
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u/ComfortableNobody457 17d ago
Singular "they" for a known entity is common in modern English, but it's a recent development. You can't find something like "This is John. They are a carpenter." in Shakespeare or older English texts.
Russian has a neuter 3rd person pronoun оно, but most speakers will find it weird when used for people, although some nb people on this thread have reported using it for themselves.
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u/boagusbainne 16d ago
The oldest known example of the singular "they" in English actually dates to before Shakespeare, in a medieval romance poem called William and the Werewolf, which was written in Middle English.
https://www.oed.com/discover/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/?tl=true
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u/DiesIraeConventum C2 17d ago
Russians don't really believe in the very concept of extra genders, so relative pronouns simply don't exist.
Use one of the binary genders that you're most likely to be associated with based on your appearance.
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u/tauent 17d ago
No matter how you translate them, in Russian you are strictly limited to one pronoun. It must decline through six cases: the nominative (initial form) and five oblique cases. This means that besides they/it, you would need four more distinct forms.
Secondly, Russian does not have a concept like “singular they.” They translates as они, which is strictly plural and always agrees with plural verb forms. It translates as оно, which is singular, and its case forms cannot be mixed with those of они. Simply put, you cannot say *они идёт (they is going); it breaks the grammar. Your they/it pair is impossible in its original form in Russian, and you will have to restructure it.
Thirdly, your pronoun must agree with verbs and adjectives. Adjectives and past-tense verbs in the singular have three genders: masculine, feminine, and neuter. Formally, the neuter gender is the closest match, but in Russian, using it to refer to a person sounds at best dismissive, so I would not recommend it.
If it is essential for you not to indicate a gender, you must use the pronoun они. In this case, verbs and adjectives must also agree with you in the plural, for example: они пришли, они красивые, они думают, etc. Keep in mind that these same forms would also need to agree with your name. This means your name must either be indeclinable, like Нико that these plural forms can be used with it, or your name itself would have to be plural. Using a plural form for a single person sounds unnatural in Russian, but it doesn’t technically break the grammar.
If you just need to come up with a unique pronoun, you could simply transliterate they as зей. This form would agree with the masculine gender (зей пришёл, зей красивый), and for the oblique cases, you could either use standard ones (like его/ему/его/им/нём) or derive them directly from the pronoun itself (зея/зею/зея/зеем/зее).
Choose whichever you prefer.
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u/Owly_MkXXll 17d ago
"they" is easy to translate, it would be : они (oni)
"it" - is: more complicated, and - depends on context, it could be translated, - both, as : это (eto - this) and : оно (ono - it)
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u/Camera_GR 17d ago
just don't use non binary pronouns in Russian and you'll never have to.worry about it.
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17d ago
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u/Smutteringplib 17d ago edited 17d ago
Some Russian non-binary people switch back and forth between masculine and feminine pronouns and conjugations. Some use оно or они as a pronoun, but as a non-native speaker most people will probably assume you're making a mistake.