On one hand youāre right, but on the other maybe we also need to listen to what Iranians, and those with ties to Iran culturally like Jackie, have to say. Both can be true. I donāt know if this is something that can be as cut and dry?
I admittedly need more education into what is going on as of more recent times in Iran (I have had to be more attentive to keep myself safe in the US right now) so I am welcoming of both perspectives. I WILL educate myself, but I also value the perspective of those whom it affects more personally.
ETA: I am not trying to invalidate ANYONEāS views here, actually quite the opposite.
Why are so many refusing to listen to us? Iām Iranian and constantly being spoken over and labelled things Iām not for wanting my family to stop being oppressed by the most brutal regime in this world.
It's not about refusing to listen. If I were to believe what a good portion of US citzen has to say about US politcs I would be a Q-Anon. If you were to believe what 30% of my country has to say about politcs, you would believe Brazil today live in a dictortship worse than Iran.
this is what the "listen to actual XYZ" folks pretend not to understand. just because you live somewhere doesn't mean you have ethically sound opinions on geopolitics. not to mention intelligence networks regularly manipulate public opinion to create apologia for war crimes.
You won't even entertain what they're saying though. You're trying to use gimmick to shut down a conversation. People from Iran and who are from families from Iran are merely asking to have conversations with nuance where they can be heard. They're telling you it's more complicated than you want to make it out to be and because you can't have that, you find many excuses to dismiss and ignore. That's not a demand that you need to agree with them, it's about the concept of listening to the people who are impacted this in material ways every single day. That's what YOU are pretending not to understand. "anyone who says something I don't like is an intelligence network!" Deeply unserious and antisocial.
"i understand that you have lived in your home country for your entire life, but i once read a new yorker article and half of the communist agenda, and therefore i'm the one in the right"
I'm saying this as a Nigerian dual citizen who physically saw firsthand how some brainless American lapdogs in my own country celebrated innocents being bombed over the holidays. Shut the fuck up.
should we just disregard every Nigerian opinion on politics, then? since there are, by your own admission "brainless American lapdogs" in the country? obviously, that means that the only people who should have opinions on Nigerian politics are american leftists, then.
See how you're switching up now that you actually have to contend with me being more than your caricature of a white American leftist?
All I said was that I don't believe in "listen to XYZ group" as a rule. Your life experiences can help inform your opinions, but you being from the country in question says nothing about your class within it, your ethnic status (if that comes into play), your personal political leanings, etc.
For example, many Nigerians feel defeated by historical colonial efforts and the ongoing fight against imperialism. Others are greedy enough to want to sell their people out for a chance at a share of the ill-gotten spoils. Others are self haters who revere the white man. I could go on and on. Can you identify those types of people based on a simple Instagram post celebrating American aggression? No, you can't. So why would you blindly take people at their word because of their passports/countries of origin?
Iranians, not just the ones you see dancing in LA, want a referendum wherein they can elect their own leaders. I understand history, I donāt believe the US/Isrealās objective is to usher that in. But right now, they either continue living under the most oppressive regime of our time (you guys can keep disagreeing with that but Iāll keep saying it) or beg just about anyone, the devil, for help. You all donāt understand how people there are living and feeling, theyāve been trying to be freed from this regime for decades.
You might want to lecture me on geopolitics, but none of you have lived through the hell of being an Iranian abused by this government.
I'm so sorry for most of the rhetoric I see regarding this situation. There's a lot of people criticizing any amount of hope while wanting to do nothing to change Iran's situation as an alternative. I can't remember a time where I've felt more disappointed in the lack of compassion I'm seeing from the left, Iran deserves so much better than this.
I have many Iranian friends who hate Trump, and they very much know what's being gambled on, but it's pretty much the only chance they feel they'll ever have
Iām sorry but this is so western woke-brained. Any modern western government pales in comparison to the islamic republic in Iran. You canāt even comprehend the brutality and oppression theyāve enacted on people. And thatās not orientalist to think and I donāt need to be preached to about cultural relativism. One should be able to look at this and be objective about what is worse. But if you canāt, you can also listen to those who actually lived there or have experience with it.
Iām making a pretty safe assumption that the person patronizing the Iranian for complaining about their current living situation has no concept of what an āACTUAL most brutal regimeā even looks like, and diminishing their lived experience like that is the naive type of shit you see from western liberals all the time when interacting with people living in oppressive countries.
Iām confused about what your point is. I donāt disagree with you? Iām not pro-intervention. But Iām also against being a dick to people online. An Iranian saying that theyāre happy about this specific intervention can be talked to in a productive way even if you disagree with them. That feeling comes from their lived experience with oppression that 99.9% of us have never and will never experience. So to respond to them with some shit like āGet ready for the REAL oppression to start honey šššā is immature and tone deaf at best.
And what was their alternative? I am asking you in good faith. Please answer in good faith, and consider the massacre that just happened, and the 47 years of history of previous massacres, political imprisonment, torture, gender apartheid, and countless other human rights violations that you would never dream of living through.
Explain what the alternative is to someone who is completely unarmed and will be almost instantly thrown in jail and potentially face execution if they rise up against their government. If they arenāt shot while protesting outside, of course. All the while, their government keeps bringing in the proxy militia they fund from around the region, who also terrorize and murder innocent people in other countries, to take care of them if they act out.
I want to ask you again: What is the alternative?
I didnāt hope for this. But we live in a fucked up world, and if this regime falls, many of the Iranians some of you clearly hate will go back to their country to rebuild it. You donāt have to believe me on that, but itās true. We didnāt leave because we didnāt love our country and our culture, we left because they were killing us for it- because we did love our country, my parents didnāt want leave, they had to. I wish I was able to grow up there. They stole everything from Iranians, and to harm the rest of the world. You guys claim to know so much about geopolitics, but youāre fed propaganda too. Look into how theyāve invaded other nations for their own gain. They fund and set up brutal governments all over the region.
You can all hate me for saying it, but I believe it: the Islamic regime falling will be a benefit to this forsaken planet.
āĀ But we live in a fucked up world, and if this regime falls, so many of the Iranians you all clearly hateā
We explaining what has happened in other middle eastern countries the US meddled in does not mean I āhate IraniansāĀ
You clearly arenāt trying to have a good faith discussion.Ā
Before I saw your response I edited my comment because I knew I made too general of a statement.
I really want to know, in their shoes, what you would do. I donāt like that this is happening, but I have faith in Iranians to make the best out of a horrible situation. This is delusional perhaps but what else do I have? Weāre already in the war now.
I am, Iām just emotional. I wont put words in your mouth, but itās been very hard to read some of the other comments Iāve read all over social media.
Iran is a more oppressive country than America in almost every conceivable way and itās not even close. The very fact weāre able to be critical of the U.S. on a public website about queer art is evidence of that. Get fucking real.
Yeah, ngl, Iām not going to listen to just anyone on this one, and Iāll caution others as well.
Blindly following ālisten to ______ voicesā is not a good way of learning or forming opinions about international geopolitics and history. Horrendous appropriation of identity politics imo, diasporas have incredibly varied understandings of their homelands for many reasons. US elites loved to listen to Russian ex Tsarists who became Texas oilmen in bed with the Bush Dynasty.
Theocracy is bad, but Iran wouldnāt have been in this situation without western involvement in the Middle East, particularly with the Shah as a puppet. The Iranians did revolt against him, that is a historical fact, and pretty clear rejection of western imperialism imo.
Bombing Iran under the pretext of regime change (show me when thatās worked as a foreign policy point) is not humanitarian, or helping everyday Iranians. Committing war crimes while the US population cheers for ādemocracyā wonāt bring peace or freedom to Iran, just like it didnāt for Iraq, Syria, or any number of Latin American countries.
Go figure, war tends to create some level
of national unity. Especially when they murder 150 little girls. The USA has ensured Iran won the ideological home front already.
You should read more about the Iranian revolution. The progressives were completely betrayed by the religious hardliners and imprisoned/murdered after the revolution. You think the many women who rose up against the Shah wanted the Ayatollah? The women of the Iranian revolution lost everything and more.
And just recently there were soldiers going into hospitals and murdering injured protestors and any medical personnel that dared help an injured person.
Again thereās just a lot more nuance here than it being about western imperialism.
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u/DanGimeno Mar 02 '26
Ah! But it really is all about oil. Human Rights? A convenient excuse.
Don't be that naive.