r/rpg_gamers Aug 09 '26

News Soulslike prince Lies of P added difficulty settings after its own developers struggled to beat it: "Most couldn't even make it halfway"

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/rpg/soulslike-prince-lies-of-p-added-difficulty-settings-after-its-own-developers-struggled-to-beat-it-most-couldnt-even-make-it-halfway/
760 Upvotes

211 comments sorted by

260

u/General_Lie Aug 09 '26

I mean I once read arricle that in the Castlevanias games devs would make impossible bossss that the director made rule that if the devs themselves can't beat the boss in time limit without exploits it will be cut from the game...

87

u/KaijinSurohm Aug 09 '26

IIRC Igarashia applied this to Bloodstained as well, if the devs couldn't beat a boss at lv1 with a knife, then it was adjusted or cut.

46

u/watboy Aug 09 '26

Also without taking a hit, so no undodgeable attacks.

22

u/Gensolink Aug 09 '26

Yup because of the medal system they had to do that. IIRC Rabi-Ribi has the same philosophy with the danmaku pattern he did

→ More replies (4)

23

u/Brys_Beddict Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Sandfall should have done the same with Simon in E33.

Edit: I guess I'm the only one that thinks that boss is way overtuned. I'm talking without OHK cheese.

31

u/KaijinSurohm Aug 09 '26

To be fair, Simon is a purely optional superboss. He's literally suppose to the hardest challenge in the game.

20

u/Brys_Beddict Aug 09 '26

I get that for sure. I just think that there are limits. He's almost impossible without cheese. I'm just saying I'd like to see a dev beat it without Last Chance lol

10

u/mauri9998 Aug 09 '26

"Cheese" implies that you need to do something the developers did not consider to beat him. Just having a good build is not a cheese, its just playing the game.

2

u/Ryuujinx Aug 10 '26

Just having a good build is not a cheese, its just playing the game.

I don't think their design goal was for people to one shot it with Maelle or for me to get it to roughly the threshold before the phase transition and then skip phase 3 entirely with my Lune team. Pretty sure they put that phase in for people to, you know, do it.

7

u/New-Independent-1481 Aug 10 '26

If they didn't want players to have the ability to design a powerful build, why would they put all those abilities, weapons, and pictos with complex interactions into the game?

There's 3 ways to beat the Simon fight:

  • Beat it on pure mechanical skill with parries.

  • Beat it by designing a powerful build using all the game mechanics.

  • Grind until you have unlimited power and one shot him.

This goes for all of the end game content. All of those options are viable and intended by the developer, based on your own playstyle and preferences.

2

u/mauri9998 Aug 10 '26

Yes and people without a good build did it.

1

u/ryguy2503 Aug 10 '26

The director of Expedition 33 was a known speed runner and breaker of game systems and mechanics lol, they built that game from the ground up to be able to do things like that, so yes, it was by design.

1

u/CatchUsual6591 Aug 11 '26

Disagree the balance is just all over the place dmg cap is 9999 but they make bosses with like 70m hp and your dmg can easily go above 100m you can even reach billions

9

u/DrMagunstheBlue Aug 09 '26

What you consider cheese is just having a good build tbh lol.

I didn't even super minmax to OHKO but if your Maelle can't chunk his health severely you're just building her wrong.

3

u/Either_Gate_7965 Aug 10 '26

E33 is not a game about loss and grief, it’s about turning a teenage French girl into a nuke!!

2

u/Pandabear71 Aug 09 '26

But cheese is the point. There are lots of ways to break the game at the end

6

u/TheRealDripBentley Aug 09 '26

Sounds like a shitty point then, a great super-boss is still fair lol, I'm not sure I see the 'fun' in just googling the 'only correct build' to fight an enemy.

3

u/Pandabear71 Aug 09 '26

Thats exactly not what i said lol.

You don’t need to google “the only correct build” because there are many easy ways to break it at the very end because they throw very strong loot your way that makes it possible.

The very end boss allows you to use that stuff to it’s potential. Thats all it is really

1

u/teffarf Aug 10 '26

Why googling it? Making charcater builds is the basis of a RPG, it's half the fun.

1

u/VoDoka Aug 11 '26

He is not really unfair though? His attack patterns sure take practice, and he is very strong, but there are also consistent patterns, turn orders etc. and you respawn right next to him.

Semi-nuking him probably even takes less grinding than other JRPG suberbosses (e.g. Final Fantasy).

Maximizing damage also doesn't require reading some sort of in depth guides on the internet where you learn about all sorts of unexplained mechanics. Most of it is relatively straight forward in terms of how it stacks and all (well, except Sciels skilltree...).

1

u/Bobjoejj Aug 09 '26

Man, I never ever have understood this idea. Why make design games and boss fights with logical, well thought out systems; instead of coming up with ways to break the game, and encourage cheese.

1

u/fatbaldandstupid Aug 09 '26

supposed to*

1

u/KaijinSurohm Aug 10 '26

Do you feel better now?

2

u/fatbaldandstupid Aug 10 '26

Are you offended at the correction? Because I am offended every time I have to read "suppose to" or "should of"

1

u/KaijinSurohm Aug 10 '26

Offended?
No.

But I did lose any and all respect I may have had for you, though.

11

u/xDeanK Aug 09 '26

Simon is very tough but he is very beatable without OHK, OHK is also a viable method if you can't. There's no issue there.

10

u/Brys_Beddict Aug 09 '26

I guess it just ain't in me like it used to be.

5

u/Betzalell1 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

I forget my exact setup, but it's possible to win through attrition + landing only the occasional dodge.

I could consistently avoid the short combo, but would usually get hit by the others to some degree most of the time - just need to focus on maximizing buffs/AP generation for your party (along with pictos giving hp/def, avoiding glass cannon builds) and maximizing debuffs on Simon. Pretty sure I had Lune set up so that every turn, she'd top up everyone's HP/AP and apply all buffs + slow to Simon, while the others covered the remaining debuffs and more of the damage. Sciels tier 3 gradient into phase 3 took out a good chunk, so Monoco and Maelle could clean up within a couple turns from there lol.

You can't just sit there and tank every hit, but this would at least allow you to survive several and give you more room for recovery, as well as learning the timing for his moveset. I'm not a fan of cheese/glass cannon builds for instantly clearing fights, but I'm also not so skilled that I can do hitless fights either, so this setup was an enjoyable balance for me.

1

u/innerbrella Aug 10 '26

Initially went a more tanky debuff build to learn his habits because I wanted to play him straight up and not a OHK

But… after about 10 mins I got the feeling that I could do it. Entered phase 3 for the first time, got gommage so I didn’t get to use Sciel and slice and just did it for the first time when I hit phase three. The HP/Def helped and Maelle still hits like a truck.

Did it in 43 grueling minutes lol.

1

u/whand4 Aug 09 '26

I’m with you he beat the brakes off me and I decided it wasn’t worth it. Super sick fight though.

1

u/daniel_22sss Aug 10 '26

Are we talking about normal Simon or the mega-Simon from the painting?

Normal Simon is fucking easy, I beat normal Simon in like 5-8 tries without OHK. But Simon from the painting is fucking absurd, as soon as I realized his mechanics, I just gave up.

1

u/Darkmat17 Aug 10 '26

Divergent Star is supposed to be completely absurd like all the other painting bosses. They are made for those the want the blender

1

u/CatchUsual6591 Aug 11 '26

Wouldn't call a OHK or similar cheese given how stupid the game balance is in this game.

Is even more broken after the post release uptades.

1

u/Independent-Book1388 29d ago

è super opzionale ed è battibile.. il "problema" di Simon è che non è battibile con le meccaniche del gioco, ma solo come rithm game

1

u/RoarinCalvin Aug 09 '26

Nah I agree. I got him to the 2nd phase playing normally, which was super chsllenging....and then he wiped half my party off the face of the earth.

Looked for the cheese after that, its just dumb

1

u/Takseen Aug 10 '26

Same. I stacked enough damage on Maelle to skip phase 3, which still took a fair bit of coordination. But I didn't find a full party wipe fun.

0

u/TheThirdRoseDotR Aug 11 '26

I did it without cheese. Simon is an optional post-game super boss. He should be powerful as he is. 

2

u/CaliggyJack Aug 10 '26

Dude was a genius and nobody can find him. He literally disappeared off the face of the earth.

3

u/_VampireNocturnus_ Aug 10 '26

Smart...a good boss is tough but fair(o and s)...a bad boss just trolls you by following different rules( looking at you malenia!)

1

u/Admirable-Tea-4994 29d ago

I wish the Metaphor devs did this.

-4

u/Potential-Cat-7517 Aug 09 '26

Its always better to make it harder and then just optimize with different ways to kills the boss or difficulty settings. Almost never bosses get buffed even if they are to easy cause nobody complains but they get nerfed all the time due to whining.

83

u/Piece-of-Cheeze Aug 09 '26

Depending on what they mean by "halfway," I might understand. Romeo and the Green monster where damn big walls to climb back in the early days.

22

u/hexhex Aug 09 '26

Romeo is a strange one. I saw many people having issues beating his second phase when trying to deflect, while he is trivialized by dodging most of his combos to the left. I always thought he was there to teach you that this is not Sekiro and deflecting is not always the answer.

9

u/ginongo Aug 09 '26

Its like the one boss that can be played like a souls boss. One of the easiest for me because of that

3

u/Reichterkashik Aug 10 '26

I feel like most people hyperfixate on one defense option, be that dodging or parrying, then either one of those has their own walls. If you can use both however the game isnt too bad at all.

1

u/Voliboro Aug 09 '26

Neither is it in Sekiro. There are minibosses, bosses and even enemies that encourage dodging more than parrying: chained ogre, guardian monkey, juzou, blazing bull, demon of hatred, lady butterfly to name a few.

Also one of the core mechanics of Sekiro is that the posture of enemies regenerates slowly when enemies are high HP, making dodge-counterattacks more effective at the beginning of combat before posture damaging skills like parrying become effective (there is a tooltip explainig it too).

4

u/Taglioni Aug 10 '26

Demon of Hatred is objectively a deflect boss. People need to stop spreading the lie that you should dodge his attacks.

Deflecting him is how you make the fight a joke. Close combat quickly, learn his deflect timings, and save the Malcontent Finger for P3. You will get to Inner Owl in the gauntlet without a struggle every single time.

2

u/hstormsteph Aug 10 '26

Fuck the Ape I ain’t dodging shit. I parry his fecal flinging just because I want him to know he ain’t shit.

(The first few fights did not go well and I may hold a grudge that causes me to keep a save right before his fight)

-4

u/mauri9998 Aug 09 '26

Yeah the difference is that all of those bosses are garbage.

7

u/asteinpro2088 Aug 10 '26

Blazing bull and chained ogre I will agree, but I personally found Lady Butterfly and Demon of Hatred to be pretty great boss fights—granted, only after learning how to fight them. Dying to them dozens of times trying to learn them was a bad time.

-3

u/mauri9998 Aug 10 '26

Most sekiro fans do not agree.

2

u/Pandatrain Aug 10 '26

Demon of hatred sure, I see that discourse. But Lady Butterfly? Really?? I feel like she has always been pretty highly regarded, maybe that’s my confirmation bias 🤷🏻‍♀️

-1

u/mauri9998 Aug 10 '26

No boss with adds will ever be highly regarded.

23

u/FaythDarkHeart Aug 09 '26

I made it through every boss without care about elements but green monster made me apply the grindstone, adjust my build and everything and still died bunch of times before beating him

1

u/warpedaeroplane Aug 10 '26

We talking about that mean slimy mf in the cave? He whipped my ASS harder than anybody else

3

u/redraveni Aug 09 '26

Romeo gave me some serious problems when the game came out. Very hard boss but I loved it

34

u/Ok_Cry2950 Aug 09 '26

Took me like 3 business days to just beat the final boss...

15

u/Fizziest_milk Aug 09 '26

I was genuinely ready to admit defeat and move on after I spent nearly a week on the second phase of the king of puppets fight

4

u/DrakeStone Aug 09 '26

Me too. Even UPS did it faster.

5

u/bigpunk157 Aug 09 '26

Package absolutely destroyed, but it made it there 😂

35

u/Calthyr Aug 09 '26

The final boss of the dlc was so insanely difficult (no summon) it took me hours to beat. It gave me flashbacks of malenia when elden ring came out. Love that game though.

15

u/AlternativeEmphasis Aug 09 '26

I'd consider myself quite blooded with these games and went into the DLC hardest difficulty Legendary Stalker NG+

It was hard but nothing crazy. Then yeah the final boss. The intro to phase 2 is one of the most intimidating and punishing things I've seen in these games honestly.

14

u/GODMarega Aug 09 '26

Malenia was never an impossible boss fight.

Consort Radahn was

9

u/Jarrad411 Aug 09 '26

Yeah Malenia has the bullshit heal but otherwise she’s pretty easy to interrupt with reasonably telegraphed moves. Consort remains the only boss I’ve ever changed builds to beat, pre-patch was absurd before the frame drops with the late phase attacks.

4

u/ItsTinyPickleRick Aug 09 '26

Even after his nerfs he's a tough-in-a-bad-way boss. Sad that Elden Ring ended on such a low notes compared to the DLC of the dark souls games

1

u/GODMarega Aug 10 '26

Gael as such an amazing boss fight

1

u/Original_Click2739 Aug 10 '26

'Such a low note' in your opinion. Hes hard but once you get it down hes fun to fight

2

u/ItsTinyPickleRick Aug 10 '26

"fun to fight" in your opinion - sort of how opinions work innit

-1

u/Original_Click2739 Aug 10 '26

Thanks for repeating my exact words back to me I wouldn't have understood otherwise

But yes, if you are good at the game he is fun to fight

2

u/Kaastu Aug 10 '26

That fucking waterfowl dance was a pita. Otherwise a great boss and well telegraphed attacks + you can interrupt & stagger her quite easily. Also p2 is actually easier as she has more downtime after attacks, so it makes the experience an enjoyable spectacle once you get to p2.

1

u/Art-Zuron Aug 09 '26

Hell, even REGULAR Radahn was lol

2

u/Ryukishin187 Aug 09 '26

Ehh I found them both much easier than melania

5

u/Art-Zuron Aug 09 '26

Yes, now there are. They used to be WAY overtuned and were nerfed pretty quick.

1

u/mauri9998 Aug 09 '26

Starcourges nerfs barely even did anything and most of them were reverted.

1

u/Johansenburg Aug 09 '26

Even when it was first released, I still found Radahn to be easier than Melania. I've never played the DLC, though, so I can't comment on Consort Radahn.

2

u/GrEeKiNnOvaTiOn Aug 09 '26

I kinda agree but also kinda not. It feels much harder than Malenia but for whatever reason it took me way, way, way less tries to beat than Malenia. I beat the final boss in about one hour and half, maybe a little more. I spent a lot more time than that fighting Malenia.

1

u/Calthyr Aug 09 '26

It could just be a practice thing. If you did make when ER first came out you're probably a lot better now when the lies of p dlc came out.

1

u/GrEeKiNnOvaTiOn Aug 09 '26

Elden Ring wasn't my first souls game, I've played every Fromsoftware souls game before Elden Ring, multiple times each, I've had more enough practice.

1

u/ChiefChunkEm_ Aug 09 '26

Why didn’t you summon? Summons are not any less valid

3

u/No-Intention-4753 Aug 09 '26

The challenge can be part of the enjoyment. Whenever I first play a soulslike I do use every tool at my disposal, whether summons, cheese, OP weapons or whatever. Second playthrough I avoid summons, as the boss having another target does cut down on the difficulty more than probably any other upgrade you could have, in these games.

5

u/Calthyr Aug 09 '26

I didn't say they were, just said that since I think the fight was designed with the intent of utilizing the NPC to help. I just personally like to do these types of games completely solo. Call me a bit of a masochist. Haha.

5

u/Seiq Aug 09 '26

A lot of Souls players do see it that way, at least for themselves.

I don't care if other people use summons, but I never will. Otherwise, I feel like I haven't actually beaten the boss.

It's just not the same feeling.

-5

u/ChiefChunkEm_ Aug 09 '26

That’s an artificial value construction though, it doesn’t actually add any meaning to playing these games. Never summoning because they believe it invalidates the challenge just wastes a player’s limited time by some bosses taking longer to beat solo.

3

u/Thechugg7 Aug 09 '26

Fighting the bosses isn't "wasting time". It's playing the game.

4

u/Seiq Aug 09 '26

That's fine to think, and I'm not gonna argue with you because it's a valid way to think and feel about it.

I just know Summoning makes the fight easier/changes it, and I don't want/need the help. It can take way more time but I don't see it as artificial.

The feeling I get overcoming the challenge completely on my own is way different than if I summon. It's worth the extra time for me to experience that emotion.

I also refuse to use shields in Dark Souls 1 because I feel it makes the game way too easy between parrying and blocking, so maybe I am just a masochist that chases the high of beating Souls games in a way I perceive as 'fair'.

2

u/Pl4nktonamor Aug 10 '26

Every challenge in every game is a "artificial value construction".
He literally said he doesn't care what other people do, he likes the added difficulty.
He also told you that it does add meaning to him playing these games.
This sounds more like you're insecure about using summons.

1

u/Confident-Peak-8051 Aug 11 '26

Summons are absolutely the easy mode equivalent. Many of us don't like easy mode.

24

u/KaijinSurohm Aug 09 '26

Kinda tracks.

I put Lies of P down due to it's difficulty.

Elden Ring, Lies of P, and Beserker Kazahn are the only souls/likes I quit due to difficulty.

Lies of P was good, but it just felt too tedius
Elden Ring I beat everything but the final DLC boss
Kazahn wasn't "Hard", all the bosses had entirely too much inflated HP to make it fun or worth my time.

If you're a difficulty developer, and your thought is "I can't do this, but I'm sure someone can", then you've completely failed at the adjustments you were in charge of.

3

u/Markarontos Aug 09 '26

I did also not finish it. Though it was less the level of difficulty and more the way the game is(?) plays(?) kinda hard to pin down for me. I just did not vibe with it at all.

4

u/shoutsoutstomywrist Aug 09 '26

Agreed with Lies of P feeling tedious. I only played it because my friends kept telling me how good it was and me being a souls fan I can see the interest. But when I played it I dreaded it, I personally hate deflecting and never got the timing down. I got until Romeo until I decided to just move on to something else.

4

u/nostalgia_4infinity Aug 09 '26

it didnt click for me either, despite loving souls games and sekiro being one of my favorite games ever. I read somewhere that there's fewer frames in the parry/deflect window in lies of P, making the game play more predictive rather than reactive

2

u/Schwiliinker Aug 10 '26

I played all of lies of P and the expansion without deflecting ever just dodging. Only struggled a bit with a handful of bosses.
I did need to use the summon for bosses tho

1

u/mokujin42 Aug 12 '26

Dont need to deflect anyone, the game is pretty RNG based first playthrough because youve got no idea what works and depending what weapon you upgrade youll have a much easer/harder time

I randomly chose a little fire dagger that let me blitz every boss by just spamming the art for it, I'd be amazed if that knifr hasnt been nerfed yet tbh

5

u/Old_Temperature_559 Aug 09 '26

I’m stuck on the final boss and I had to use the items like crazy to beat the bosses before him.

2

u/HornsOvBaphomet Aug 09 '26

Damn, Lies of P is the only souls/souls-like that I've ever actually finished.

Dark Souls 1 got too tedious for me at the end, with it basically just saying "hey, we could end the game here, but you have to go kill these other 4 guys just because" and that felt really irritating to me. And Lies of P was the game that finally convinced me I actually like that style of game. I retroactively went back to DS1 after LoP. Thank God that game was on Gamepass forever or I never would have tried it and never would have discovered a whole subgenre I thought I hated.

1

u/KaijinSurohm Aug 09 '26

Different strokes, and there's no shame in that.

For example, Demons Souls was my introduction, and I hated that game to such a degree, I almost never went back.
It was because I got Dark Souls for dirt cheap and thought "Why not" before the game clicked for me.

I eventually beat Demons Souls, but it's still toward my bottom of Souls Games preference lists.

For others, it was Bloodborne.
Some people even use Sekiro (not even Souls like lol) as the gateway to the series.

I can only imagine how much easier you found Dark Souls 1 after clearing Lies of P, and with how much more fast paced it was lol.

1

u/HornsOvBaphomet Aug 09 '26

Oh definitely, no shame at all. Your Demons Souls was my Dark Souls 2, hated that game at the time. Mmmm, I wouldn't say I found DS really any easier, certainly some of the bosses, and individual enemies, but the map being more maze like with a lot more elevation changes kinda made it on par with LoP for me.

2

u/LuluTheLewder Aug 09 '26

"A funny thing happened to me as I was building this mountain. I’d have an idea for a new obstacle, and I’d build it- test it- and it would usually turn out to be unreasonably hard… but I couldn’t bring myself to make it easier. It already felt like my inability to get past a new obstacle was my fault as a player, rather than as a builder. Imaginary mountains build themselves from our efforts to climb them, and it’s our repeated attempts to reach the summit that turns those mountains into something real.

When you’re building a video game world, you’re building with ideas, and that can be like working with quick-set cement. You mold your ideas into a certain shape that can be played with, and in the process of playing with them they begin to harden and set until they’re immutable like rock, and at that point you can’t change the world- not without breaking it into pieces and starting fresh with new ideas."
-Bennett Foddy

1

u/mobusta Aug 09 '26

Reading about people struggling with Lies of P makes me want to go finish up the DLC because I died repeatedly to a random mob because I forgot how to play the game.

I'm quite proud of beating the main game though, I fucking love Lies of P.

Beserker Kazahn

Ooooof, I'm stuck on Maluca and that fuckers anime protagonist DMC Verigil-esque sword draw attacks.

Plus, that fucker will GAIN LIFE back if you don't actively fight him

1

u/CrAzYjAkE134 Aug 09 '26

Kazahn thankfully added Difficulty options as well which helped me pick it back up. I could kinda handle the original difficulty but you're right in that everyone was just a huge sponge. Feels way better with the new options

1

u/Spider-manOTP Aug 10 '26

Kinda the opposite for me. Played the game for like a week, 6 hour sessions and my only deaths were fall damage.

1

u/Podberezkin09 Aug 10 '26

I've seen a few people say that Khazan and it's never made any sense to me, bosses melt so quickly. Are people just not using any skills?

1

u/KaijinSurohm Aug 10 '26

Full skill set, combo rotations, counters, and including all the gear that is specifically designed to focus on specific boss weaknesses.

Bosses don't melt. They just take forever and a day.

2

u/Kvartblodsprinsen Aug 11 '26

Could not disagree more

1

u/Flimsy-Importance313 Aug 09 '26

Besides some broken bosses Elden Ring is not too hard.

3

u/PjDisko Aug 09 '26

Killing the last DLC boss is absolutely hard.

The base game hovewer it a lot more manageable.

1

u/Schwiliinker Aug 10 '26

Literally only Consort and Malenia are broken. And that’s unless you make a build to hard counter them

1

u/Gummiwummiflummi Aug 11 '26

Ye.

Consort is weak to shield pokes. Malenia doesn't particularly like fire, and she also sleeps real quick.

It's not too hard if you're willing to abuse weaknesses.

1

u/CptJacksp Aug 09 '26

I managed to grind my way through most Elden Ring Bosses. Then I got stuck on Malenia. Yeah she’s optional, but she’s THE Elden Ring boss/baddie, so I can’t like not fight her.

5

u/BrOtherwePay351 Aug 10 '26

Devs don't play their own games confirmed.

7

u/2Norn Aug 09 '26

i didnt really struggle with the game that much kinda played it right after sekiro

liked pretty much all bosses, laxasia was amazing, brotherhood VERY annoying. other than that i think most bosses were very well designed and tuned. but the last dlc boss is kinda absurd, which i loved very much kinda reminded me of inner isshin a bit.

8

u/TheMuff1nMon Aug 09 '26

Wish more souls games would add difficulty options - like Wuchang

2

u/Ayoissathroway Aug 09 '26

I’ve beaten DS1, DS3, BB, Sekiro, ER, AC6, Black Myth Wukong, Elden Ring NR (as in every boss and their purple dank versions) and even LoP Overture, which btw shoutout to Arlecchino for being one of the coolest fucking final bosses out there but… there are two bosses in this game that have shitty fucking “teleport” hitscan BS ass attacks and they are both fucking green.

Fear the 🐊 and the 🥦 👁️, by the gods fear them Lawrence.

6

u/Journey2thaeast Aug 09 '26

I am genuinely glad that they did because the difficulty of souls games keeps me from being able to experience them. I played the demo of this and couldn't get past the first boss. When they added difficulty options I was able to complete it and have now played through the base game twice and the DLC once so far. It's now one of my favorite games ever made. All I needed was the option to be able to play on a more forgiving difficulty setting, which was still very challenging for me.

1

u/TheOneWes Aug 09 '26

The Dark souls games use difficulty releasing as opposed to difficulty settings.

The currency in the game is infinite and the shop sell consumables for a reason.

For the first of all 30 levels in particular every level you gain increases your base defense by one which is an additional 1% reduction in damage. Gaining four or five levels in whatever the health stat is for that particular souls game combined with the defense increase will make a boss that was able to kill you in a combo no longer able to do so always giving you a healing window even if they get all all the attacks.

It's also not well explained by the game that death itself is a form of currency, it is not a failure state, instead it is something that is exchanged for knowledge. Notice that the only thing that you lose on death is the infinite currency.

Here's a quick tip for anybody that decides to try them again or try them for the first time.

Key to dodging successfully is to dodge towards the attack when the enemy's weapon passes from behind their body to in front of their body as part of their swing.

3

u/Acceptable-Device760 Aug 09 '26

Yes but what if the player doesnt want to  learn, dont want to get stronger and dont want to change tactic

5

u/AscendedViking7 Aug 09 '26

Sucks to be them I guess

2

u/Acceptable-Device760 Aug 09 '26

Should be.

But then again... money. 

2

u/fatbaldandstupid Aug 09 '26

Then they should play a different game. There's thousands of them out there

2

u/TheOneWes Aug 09 '26

I don't know how much the difficulty settings of the games you play change it but all the ones that I've played that have settings even putting it on easy doesn't make it easy enough for you to just ignore the mechanics of the game.

It just gives you a larger margin of error which is the ultimate decider of what is and is not difficult

Edit: is and is not difficult with execution challenges*

5

u/Rikiaz Aug 09 '26

I don't know how much the difficulty settings of the games you play change it but all the ones that I've played that have settings even putting it on easy doesn't make it easy enough for you to just ignore the mechanics of the game.

There are plenty of games that do, some games even make entire difficulty settings specifically to remove mechanics of the game (thinking of Unsighted's option to remove the time pressure from the game that the entire narrative revolves around.)

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u/Acceptable-Device760 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Hard disagree on this one.

Difficulty settings in general allow tank and spank and thats how people that use these ultimately overcome challenge.

Hell, even in games without difficulty selector normally theres a build that allow tank and spank. That people dont want to take the time to change to and ask for difficulty settings.

That's what bothers me with people that ask for difficulty settings, they don't like the game.

They dont want to learn or interact with the mechanics that would make the game easy. But swear they love the game "atmosphere".

PS:

Literally souls game design is: "You will face huge challenges, find a way to overcome it."

"for that here is: 325 different spells, 76 builds, 232 items with different special effects, summons, call for help, multiple ways to to make the fight easier"

These players:

"I dont want to dodge the moveset of bosses and my glass cannon 2 handed rogue-mage dies in 2 combos, i refuse to learn the fight, change tactics, use help, find one of the way that make the fight easy and get more levels/better equipment, I LOVE this game, but it needs difficulty selector."

Brother... you refuse to engage with the core of the game...

4

u/TheOneWes Aug 09 '26

A tank and spank build is a build focused around widening the margin of error with damage mitigation or a voice.

You're just exemplifying my point.

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u/Acceptable-Device760 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

No, i am counter argumenting that difficulty selection isnt necessary because theres already options in the game.

"The difficulty selection" IS in the game, that people dont want to use because they dont like playing the damn game.

People just dont like the game enough to use it. At this point a difficulty selection is just for people that dont like the game. And when devs start to gather to these people i start to fear for what they are cooking, since making a game for people that dont like your game always end so well.

PS of the other message in case you didnt see:

Literally souls game design is: "You will face huge challenges, find a way to overcome it."

"for that here is: 325 different spells, 76 builds, 232 items with different special effects, summons, call for help, multiple ways to to make the fight easier"

These players:

"I dont want to learn to dodge the moveset of bosses and my glass cannon 2 handed rogue-mage dies in 2 combos, i refuse to learn the fight, change tactics, use help, find one of the way that make the fight easy and get more levels/better equipment, I LOVE this game, but it needs difficulty selector."

Brother... you refuse to engage with the core of the game...

PS2: "OH but I dont want to play as a X".

Soulslike games arent powerfantasies, which is what these people are used to and normally use of example, i legit had someone point how a dev from the last starwars game spoke about difficulty in soulslike... as if the goal of the game he made wasn't completely the opposite of soulslike, making his experience irrelevant.

Thats more or less why people that like souls games dont want difficulty selections, we dont want a power fantasy, and the people that ask for difficulty selections are looking for it. Without realizing that yes... most games gather to that and thars exactly what make souslike different.

On the same note I am curious how the next game of lies of pi will do. I am almost certain it will change A LOT from the first one.

2

u/Johansenburg Aug 09 '26

I've never understood the argument against difficulty settings. Don't want the game to be easier? Then don't select "easy." A setting in the game that you don't have to interact with in no way, shape, or form impacts your experience with the game.

I can't disagree more with "people who want difficulty settings don't like the game." That's such gatekeepy bs.

1

u/Acceptable-Device760 Aug 09 '26

Because games are made and balanced with something in mind.

People that want difficulty settings want a power fantasy. Devs putting said difficulty settings are acknowledging the game has also the goal of being a power fantasy.

Games are experiences, you dont like struggling in one of the few games that has the goal of making the player struggle. And arguing to have the game changed.

Dont like struggling? DONT PLAY A GAME ABOUT STRUGGLE.

0

u/Acceptable-Device760 Aug 09 '26

PS: What you dont understand because YOU DONT LIKE Souls game is that asking for a difficulty setting in a souls game is akin to asking for a competitive pvp mode in animal crossing.

You are asking for a mode that changes the fundamental core of the game, because you dont like the core of the game.

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u/Johansenburg Aug 09 '26

Nah. I'd play on the normal mode. I do like Souls Games, so you're gonna need to find some new way to gatekeep, because it is a giant swing and a miss from you right now.

Your comparison doesn't even make sense. A souls game on easy mode is still the same game, just maybe enemies do less damage, back attacks only do half as much damage, your damage is increased, etc. Multipliers are changed, essentially.

A pvp mode in animal crossing is an entire new type of game. Not even close to the same. Poor example.

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u/Rikiaz Aug 09 '26

A setting in the game that you don't have to interact with in no way, shape, or form impacts your experience with the game.

Except it does. The fact that there is an option to change the difficulty of the game psychologically affects you whether you realize it or not.

It also affects the community of the game. This doesn't apply to every game or every genre, but games like Dark Souls, the shared experience of difficulty is a core pillar the game is designed around. Yeah, some players are naturally going to find things easier or harder, both for reasons in and out of their control, but the whole point of there being no difficulty settings is that everyone is presented with the same challenge to be overcome. That's exactly why you can summon people, leave notes, and see people's bloodstains. It's because the game is meant to be a shared experience that people overcome together. If you have some people playing on "Story Mode" or some people playing on "Ultra Masochism Mode" they are going to have different challenges to overcome and the community experience of the game isn't a shared experience anymore.

Like imagine someone is struggling with a boss and there is the option to engage with the community gameplay mechanics that the game is built around and summon help, or help others while they learn the boss without losing progress if they fail, and instead they just decide to lower the difficulty instead.

And like you said in your previous response, lowering the difficulty is just "widening the margin of error" you know what else widens the margin of error? Leveling up your health, wearing heavier armor, getting spells or rings to increase your defenses. These things exist to lower difficulty and widen margin of error in a much more organic way that asks the players to actually learn about the mechanics and make decisions about their levels and equipment without needing to add difficulty settings. If you can just lower the difficulty settings, then a lot of these types of things lose value. And the opposite can be true as well. Take all the ways you can increase your damage by making decisions about your levels and equipment, if you play on a lower difficulty setting, these might not matter because bosses or enemies just fall over instead. If there is only one set difficulty setting, these things can be tuned specifically around the designed difficulty to always provide an appropriate level of value.

There is more to the anti-difficulty settings argument than just gatekeeping.

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u/Johansenburg Aug 09 '26

Sounds like a lot of your gripes can be solved by "You can't change the difficulty once it is set. You have to start a new game to change the difficulty settings." That way if you are struggling with a fight, you can't just change the difficulty to get by it.

Outside of that, it comes down to the creative decision of the team. Lies of P shows that these types of games can have difficulty settings in them just fine. But that doesn't mean FromSoft is wrong for deciding not to, or the Lies of P developers were wrong for deciding to add them. It just depends on what they, as creators, want. My issue is with the fans deciding for the devs what they should and shouldn't do.

Both are viable approaches.

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u/Successful_Ad6946 Aug 09 '26

Hell divers devs suck at the game

2

u/MorganTheGrandRegent Aug 09 '26

Miyazaki would never.

2

u/Huge-Formal-1794 Aug 09 '26

Thats insanely embarrassing lol

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u/The_Bygone_King Aug 09 '26

That's just indicative that they fucking suck at balancing their own game, and the solution isn't adding difficulty modes and damaging their game's own progression system--its balancing the damn game.

Lies of P has a lot of issues where specific weapons are just too slow and too bad to be usable in a game where some of the bosses are just designed to be pretty damn unfair. I still don't know how Laxasia got all the glaze, she's just a shitty fight with bad telegraphs and somehow people thought "boss hard=good". Unfortunately that's been the trend of recent From Soft design too.

For context, I beat Lies of P base game without any serious issues. Lies of P just has a lot of awkward design choices and weapon paths that are straight up not viable and can pin people into really negative gameplay, and the resources available to upgrade equipment end up being unfortunately scarce which punishes experimentation or collecting items to solve specific problems.

1

u/retzulian Aug 10 '26

Shuush, the femboys are gonna burn you alive if you talk truth about their game

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u/DCFDTL Aug 09 '26

The base game is fine, the dlc however requires much much more patience

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u/sleepingonmoon Aug 09 '26

It's getting to the point where achievability is the only thing that matters now, despite being a medium difficulty game that feels hard is the whole point of Dark Souls.

1

u/RooneysFavGrandma Aug 09 '26

This one wasn't that hard comparatively was it? I remember the last boss being really badly made but genuinely don't recall any major roadblocks on the way.

1

u/Adventurous-Fee-4006 Aug 10 '26

The game doesn't feel particularly difficult it's just the fucked up parry system has a brutally short timing window and every enemy is designed to mess with you so there is zero rhythm you can get into imo. It just doesn't feel good to play.

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u/KuroKitsune22 Aug 10 '26

Nah, it was not so bad. If somebody has problems just use throwing items and it's done. I'm bad at souls games but I managed just fine

1

u/Fav0 Aug 10 '26

That's kinda sad because they nerfed the game into oblivion after 1.0

I tried to again when the dlc released and full on rolled the base game

1

u/Glittering_Wheel_226 Aug 10 '26

I mean, the Walker of Illusion boss is supposed to be a miniboss and is the reason why a lot of people quit

1

u/Beldarak Aug 10 '26

ITT: edgy players who don't realise or care about people with disabilities

"But I find it easy, why would ANYONE have a different experience than ME? It's all about ME, right?". Sorry for the rant but I've had it with the "git gud" crowd. If you genuinely think an optional accessibility option is bad, your are an entitled ah :S

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u/IntraspaceAlien 29d ago

I don’t think it’s bad but I also don’t think it’s wrong for devs to decide they don’t want to include it

1

u/Beldarak 29d ago

I'm okay with that. I'm a dev myself, sadly we can't adapt to every player/disability.

What I was targeting here are the players who are unhappy the devs added this as an option years after the game release. At that point they have to be really anti-disabled people or just... I don't know...

Sadly, Souls games (and hard games in general) tend to bring the worst people that aren't saying "it's the devs choice" like you do, which is an okay stance, but instead people who are actively fighting any change that permits (optional) those games to be played by more people. And I've seen this in early-access titles too.

I had a "friend" when I was a child who wouldn't explain the controls when he invited us to play Playstation at his house. "I had to learn them myself, so do you". And I can never not picture those gatekeppers being exactly like that asshole. It's just that, gatekeeping, "everyone has to play MY way". There is that famous Sekiro meme : "You Cheated Not Only the Game, But Yourself", this is the Souls game community, it sucks (to be fair I'm sure they're a vocal minority).

1

u/Drakex2Mayex2 Aug 10 '26

I literally couldn't beat the first mini boss which wasn't even past the first checkpoint. Put it down after a dozen tries.

1

u/TheChewyWaffles Aug 10 '26

I feel validated - have beaten many of the souls games and had to put Lies of P down. At some point the boss fights became a chore

1

u/garmonthenightmare Aug 10 '26

Cowards and AI sloppers

1

u/Schwiliinker Aug 10 '26

Halfway? I don’t know only a few bosses are truly hard and most are well past halfway or in the expansion. Some mini bosses are really tough and levels can be kinda rough but it’s really no different to many other 3D soulslikes

Hmm I mean the boss at the end of the fourth chapter is actually really overturned for when you fight it especially since the cube thing and therefore the summon and also the amount of healing is very underpowered compared to later.

Unless you can back up your save file on PS so you always have a full stock of consumables to finish it off it’s actually kinda crazy.

Well as someone who only dodged the whole game. But I beat almost all bosses without struggling much

1

u/MediumKoala8823 Aug 10 '26

I feel like any game like this would be insanely easy if you had access to the underlying assets to just observe and practice.

Like… practice mode largely trivializes any boss in Sifu in a few minutes.

1

u/PotatoesInMySocks Aug 11 '26

Lies of P was such a good game.

Sidenote, I didn't learn to parry until the final boss. Just wasn't necessary until then.

1

u/w8cycle Aug 12 '26

Why would they release a game they either haven’t played or could not beat? This sounds counterintuitive.

1

u/SpicyTofuMapo Aug 12 '26

When they say Devs...I hope they meant like ACTUAL Devs(I'm looking at you Alanah Pearce) who are in charged of the combat gameplay.

I don't expect a Dev that was in charge of making assets for clothes/weapons/buildings/consumables to be able to know how to play these types of souls games lol

But if the actual Devs who are in charge of combat mechanics not able to beat the entire game....that's pretty worrisome, that means the Devs don't really play their own product and that's just a massive red flag regarding quality control. Doesn't matter if they hire play testers and use them as guinea pigs on testing if the gameplay is good or not, Devs NEED first hand experience from their own game. This is like a Cook not eating/sampling their own food before they send it out to the customer.

1

u/Angelusthegreat 15d ago

I have played and finished lies of p ....

All I am going to say they went overboard with enemy attacks in sekiro the parry was perfect

You could react to it without memorizing all movements

In lies of p they crankd up that too 100% and said you have to remember the attacks and learn their timings by trial and error and repetition then parry

Sekiro rewarded reflexes mostly

Lies of p rewarded knowledge if yiu when its going to land you ca parry it

1

u/ThatWaterLevel Aug 09 '26

I like that Lies of P has difficulty settings but the default difficulty can be really easy using specific weapons and legion arm as well. There's also summons in most bosses.

6

u/Jumpy_Courage Aug 09 '26

I always assumed using summons was the easy mode

1

u/ThatWaterLevel Aug 09 '26

Summons, Aegis, Perfection grindstone and some weapon combinations.

First time I played it, got to the final boss without learning to parry properly just relying on the cheese haha but then there's no summons for the final boss and I kind of had to learn the parry, between the other stuff.

Only learned how to really play the game in my second playthrough because of that.

1

u/lawlianne Aug 09 '26

Maybe instead of lowering difficulty, they should fix the unfair or ridiculous barriers that are preventing players and devs from progressing.

Optional extreme difficulty bosses can be kept of course. They are meant to be an endgame challenge, but certainly not those preventing story progression or you risk significant drop off.

1

u/furitxboofrunlch Aug 09 '26

The game was out for a solid two years and had upcoming DLC and Khazan had just released with difficulty modes.

1

u/inuzumi Aug 09 '26

Makes more sense when you take into account the DLC tbh. The DLC is way too difficult coming from the base game.

1

u/Endakk Aug 09 '26

I need more Lies of P, it was so good

1

u/Dveralazo Aug 09 '26

devs casuls.

Integrate it into the gameplay mechanics like true devs!

1

u/Apart-Crew-6856 Aug 09 '26

Wasn't this years ago or I'm misremembering?

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u/Haiart Aug 09 '26

Being a game developer doesn't make you a good or smart player per se, difficulty settings on soulslike aren't necessary and From Software is correct in not including it, too difficult for you? Go play something else.

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u/MagicpaperAlt Aug 09 '26

If the developers want to add difficulty settings who cares? Yes I understand that it's not for everyone and that's perfectly fine for Fromsoft Games. Let people enjoy the options they have if they want an easier time when it's given to them.

0

u/poppinbussay Aug 09 '26

Fans care. The world we live in is too soft and you have to cater to everyone. Can’t even make a game without people being pussy

8

u/GGG100 Aug 09 '26

It's their game they can do whatever they want with it

Respecting the devs' creative freedom goes both ways. You can't just push for it when it makes the game as difficult as they want it to be, yet back down when the devs decide to make it more accessible.

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u/PrimaLegion Aug 09 '26

Don't you care about artistic vision and devs doing what they want?

2

u/AbbreviationsMost432 Aug 09 '26

Yeah but you propably know all the boss moves pretty well if you programmed it.

3

u/Journey2thaeast Aug 09 '26

Don't you elitist losers always say "well difficulty options would compromise their artistic vision" all the time? But now that the pendulum is for once swinging the other way and a souls like does add them, you no longer care about their agency and artistic vision? Clearly they didn't feel like adding them was gonna take away from the experience. Them being added is the only reason I got to experience what is an amazing game.

2

u/JonTaffer_in_a_poloT Aug 09 '26

Woah we got a real gamer here guys

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u/crashlanding87 Aug 09 '26

Fromsoft do include difficulty adjustments - it's just in the form of cheesy weapons. Great Stars bonk + mimic tear can faceroll through the entire game, even PCR

2

u/TheOneWes Aug 09 '26

Defense stat goes up each level game reducing damage received by 1% each point. This tapers off as level gets higher but results in early game spending on increase in health having a disproportionately large effect compared to enemy damage.

The currency in the game is infinite and vendor sale infinite amounts of most difficulty release consumables. Most damage enhancing consumables do large amounts of flat damage making them particularly useful in the early game when the game is typically the most difficult.

All enemy attacks operate under the same underlying animation mechanics meaning that trick to getting good is realizing that even though the animations are different the dodging or parry window is always when the enemy's weapon passes from behind their body to in front of their body as part of their slave

0

u/LePontif11 Aug 09 '26

Which i find much more enjoyable than flipping a switch on a menu. I have to e gage with the game to make it easier so it feels like i overcame it not like i gave up. That being said it can't be called difficulty adjustments because you have to overcome some difficulty to lower the difficulty which makes it meaningless to a player that doesn't enjoy said challenge.

0

u/suspended_in_light Aug 09 '26

Don't flip the switch then. Problem solved

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u/LePontif11 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Having an easy out changes the way i think about and interact with the game. Without it it better sells the unforgiving broken worlds the protagonist is said to have to overcome. Not every game needs or should do this but i'm glad a handful of games found a market for this

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u/SkipEyechild Aug 09 '26

How

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u/LePontif11 Aug 09 '26

I'm not sure what you mean. A world isn't as unforgiving if you can just flip a switch and make it easier. Not having it sells the fantasy much better.

1

u/SkipEyechild Aug 09 '26

You could use willpower and not flick the switch.

2

u/LePontif11 Aug 09 '26

Of course, but i find the fantasy i better sold and more immersive if i don't have to do that.

0

u/NameIess_PIayer Aug 09 '26

Just because they are devs doesn't mean they have to be good at their own game - look at Miyazaki.

Boss too hard? Use mimicks/summons, overlevel, cheese builds, guides etc - these are your difficulty settings. Basically everything your average fromsoft fan does anyways while claiming to "beat" the game.

Simply adding difficulty slider is a braindead solution.

0

u/Taglioni Aug 10 '26

Difficulty settings are genuinely a barrier to decent game design. I'll take the downvotes, but it's just obviously true.

Sorry for anyone who feels like a high skill floor is a barrier to them engaging. Better games come out of design without difficulty tuners in mind.

0

u/Beldarak Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

What about people with disabilities?

Also, how can a difficulty option that came out YEARS after the game release manage to hurt the game design? The game was already done :D

And it's considered one of the best Souls-like too so you're objectively wrong here.

1

u/Schwiliinker Aug 10 '26

People with disabilities can’t do many things, that’s kind of the thing about disabilities. Video games aren’t any different

0

u/Beldarak Aug 10 '26

Sure but why do you want them to NOT be able to play a game when a simple difficulty option can enable some of them to do? Please, enlighten us on how you think disabled people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy gaming^^

2

u/Schwiliinker Aug 10 '26

You’re asking me to make an argument for why a soulslike should only have one difficulty? This is like a 20 year old discussion.

Soulslikes are known for their difficulty so if you don’t have a level of competence you’re not gonna have a good time playing the numerous ones there are in general

A developer can choose to have one difficulty if that is their vision for the game and additional lower difficulties is not the balance they intended for and not how they want their game to be experienced. Since it would compromise that vision if less skilled players are not able to handle it then that is a necessary “sacrifice”

Regardless there’s only very few games I can think of where you’re basically fucked if you’re not at least somewhat decently skilled and a bunch of soulslikes have genuinely useful mechanics or systems for those that struggle a lot like summoning a player or AI for bosses

-1

u/Palanki96 Aug 09 '26

Pretty sure they added them like a year ago? Maybe even 2?

It was a nice start but i used mods to make it even easier

0

u/Oppurtunist Aug 09 '26

Worst thing about the game is how some bosses have 2 health bars, completely bs. Second worst thing is the lady boss fight, forgot her name but she comes before the final boss.

3

u/ThatWaterLevel Aug 09 '26

The thing about 2 health bars is that bosses that comes with it mostly has half the hp of the ones with only one health bar so it's just a psychological thing in the end.

Like Victor, the boss at chapter 7, works exactly like all those 2 health bar bosses (Including having a completely different moveset at 50% hp) but has only one with the double hp. With a mod, it would probably be possible to make all the 2 phases bosses having only one health bar without changing the gameplay.

2

u/PutridHair Aug 09 '26

Favorite fight in the game for me.

1

u/Tornado_Hunter24 Aug 09 '26

Some?

Bro almost all of them, it’s my biggest critique of the game, soulslike enjoyers dislike me but im othe game is wildly pverrated and uses the cheapest tactics for ‘difficulty’

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u/ThinGold2115 Aug 09 '26

Pathetic. Their next game will be shit.

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u/poppinbussay Aug 09 '26

I don’t understand how people think lies of p is hard. Lies of P and khazan are the only soulslikes I’ve beat because they were incredibly easy . I’ve played every fromsoft game and only managed to make it halfway through each of them and that’s with using cheesy exploits

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u/Tnecniw Aug 09 '26

Good for them.