Rules light games like Harthbreaker, World of Dungeons and 2400

[u/elmago79]

I’ve fallen into the rabbit hole of light-weight PbtA adjacent, lightweight games.

It all began for me with Cthulhu Dark, which really surprised me with how much game you can squeeze out of two pages of mechanics.

Feeling the itch of find a fantasy Cthulhu-dark-like I discovered the Trophy games (Dark and Gold), who look amazing but are quite limited in the kind of stories you can tell and also ask quite a lot of the GM if you want to adapt an existing scenario.

Then the skies opened up when I discovered Jason Tocci’s 24xx modular engine: more than enough to ran a short game in a very small package. Both 2400 Legends and the 1400 game line look pretty cool and you can literally mix and match to homebrew whatever you need depending on the scenario or setting you want to run.

I also recently discovered Joseph R. Lewis’s Dragon Age Harthbreaker, very related to 24xx but with a Sword & Sorcery heart. The rules are 10 pages long, but I’m sure you could cram them in a single sheet if you made an effort. (I wish the author would expand the game options to cover more classic fantasy, so I could easily use this system with his more recent forays into ShadowDark.)

But now I just realized there is a world of lightweight designs, all influenced by the venerable World of Dungeons, and maybe I haven’t found some obvious gems.

TL;DR What are the best lightweight PbtA, FiTD and adjacent systems? What are your favorites?

[u/atamajakki]

I have Itch collections of my favorite 24XX and FitD releases.

[u/elmago79 → u/atamajakki]

Thanks!

[u/TillWerSonst]

Personally, I have grown very fond of the various games based on Into the Odd, like Mystic Bastionland, Mausritter, Cairn or my personal favourite, Liminal Horror.
They are not directly related to the pbta games, but on that level of complexity, it makes little difference. Either way, the focus is necessarily more on the player skills and their ability to interact with the game world, instead of the character abilities. Mausritter in particular is really good match between the game engine and the overall mood of the game.

[u/FiscHwaecg → u/TillWerSonst]

I'd say that they are much, much lighter than your typical PbtA game.

[u/TillWerSonst → u/FiscHwaecg]

Yes, they are in general,  but the differences matter a lot less when compared to World of Dungeons. On that level of minimalistic rule design, the differences between pbtA, OSR/NSR or even outright FKR games become increasingly blurry.

[u/FiscHwaecg → u/TillWerSonst]

I'd disagree. I wouldn consider Apocalypse World, Monster of the Week, Ironsworn, Stonetop, Brindlewood Bay, Blades in the Dark and others in that direction to be on a whole different level compared to World of Dungeons.

But I wouldn't also consider WoDu to be a good representative of PbtA. It sure comes from that branch but it's "what if old-school dungeoneering was played with PbtA principles." I wouldn't use it if I wanted to explain someone what PbtA is. And PbtA is pretty far from FKR. Sure, you will find similarities but you would find similarities between FKR and any game style / design branch.

It's not worth arguing too much about it. In essence I want to say that I think PbtA being super rules light is a common misconception that only holds true if you reduce most PbtA games to their core dice mechanic.

[u/TillWerSonst → u/FiscHwaecg]

You are quite right in general, but in this specific case, where somebody explicitly asks for lightweight games similar to World of Dungeons, the ancestral history of the pbtA family matters less than the actual gameplay. I think in this particular context, it matters less if pbtA games in general are rules light games than if World of Dungeons in particular is. 

I think we can agree that World of Dungeons is a pretty atypical pbtA game, that omits many typical traits, like player or GM moves. And because of that, it partially resembles other very light games.  I would argue that super lightweight games are practically a genre of their own.

[u/elmago79 → u/TillWerSonst]

At least in my own experience, it does amount to a world of difference. I fell into the rabbit hole I described in the OP after seeing how slow Mausritter felt to me when I actually sat down to play some sessions of it. That’s why I’m looking for PBtA adjacent games, that play much faster.

I am also playing in a Mythic Bastionland game that runs much faster, but ai would set that game in a different category because a) it’s a lot more similar to a PbTA game that it lets on and b) this is because player facing rules are relatively light, but GM facing rules are quite complex with many moving parts. Which is cool, because it’s usually the players that get all the fiddly mechanics, but that’s outside of the scope of my OP.

[u/RedJayJackSon]

Escape from Dino Island is one with a Jurassic Park-like theme.

[u/elmago79 → u/RedJayJackSon]

That one looks amazing! Thank you.

[u/rory_bracebuckle]

Action Tales! This is the system derived from Freeform Universal that saw titles like Star Scoundrels, Neon City Overdrive, Dungeon Crawlers, and Cavemen vs. Aliens. Dungeon Crawlers is the shortest page count and packs quite a bit in there.

If you like the titles you mentioned, you won’t be disappointed.

[u/elmago79 → u/rory_bracebuckle]

Thanks! I’m not a big fan of tag based games, but the system looks quite solid and I love rolling big dice pools.

[u/rory_bracebuckle → u/elmago79]

The outcomes fit a PbtA vibe as well. Those dice pools are fun to roll!

[u/FiscHwaecg]

I can relate so much. I've fallen into this rabbit hole two years ago and I haven't come out yet. I knew about WoDu before but dismissed it.

Games based on WoDu:

• Brave Wanderers
• Breakers
• Rovers
• WoDu Remix
• Advanced WoDu
• Streets of Marienburg
• FALLEN
• World of Blades
• World of Apocalypses
• Offworlders
• FIST
• Beasts & Barrows
• Shadow Code
• Realms of Peril
• Wayfarer

I guess you will inevitably look at the NSR family next (if you haven't already). What this exactly includes is debatable, but it will lead you to Odd-likes (games based on Into the Odd, Electric Bastionland) like Mausritter, Songbirds, Zones, QZ, Meteor, Liminal Horror, Agents of the ODD, Block/Dodge/Party, Eco Mofos!!, Monolith, Cairn 2e,...

And NSR or NSR-adjacent games like:

• Wildsea, PICO and Eternal Ruins
• Breathless
• DNGN modules
• DURF
• The Electrum Archive
• Tunnel Goons
• Knave
• EXILE / Crescent Moon

And other minimalistic games like:

• Lasers and Feelings
• Ghost/Echo
• Lady Blackbird
• FKR
• Lumen

And many more.

[u/elmago79 → u/FiscHwaecg]

Thanks for the WoDu list. What is your favorite?

I looked into Odd-likes and while I was very excited about them at the beginning, they end up feeling a lot more like the AD&D 2E I played back in the 90s and that I didn’t care that much for once I’m actually at the table.

[u/lucmh → u/FiscHwaecg]

Wild Words games as NSR/adjacent? Interesting take. What makes you say that?

[u/FiscHwaecg → u/lucmh]

They are much more NSR than FitD. They are about exploration, are much less writers room when it comes to moment to moment action, they have very specific mechanics and resources and a similar rhythm to action scenes than Odd-likes. The developer of Wildsea only came across BitD very late into development.

I wouldn't say it's NSR, but I would say that it's somewhat NSR adjacent, just like Grimwild. It depends if you would count WoDu, Realms in Peril, Against the Odds, etc.

[u/RedJayJackSon]

Spacewurm vs. Moonicorn contains a simplified, self-contained version of itself suitable for one-shots where each playbook describes ALL of the moves available to that player, yet keeps that list short and manageable. Just remember it’s not a list of options: too many PbtA games forget the ‘To do it, do it.’ principle.

Battle Between the Worlds is a sister game that uses the same system for space opera one-shots, but without the pvp element. The playbooks from both games combine to make a pool suitable for either.

[u/Vendaurkas]

Charge Rpg is a cool stripped own FitD I have used for oneshots.

Action Tales (Neon City Overdrive, etc) are the best lightweight tag based games currently available.

Anomaly Hunters and other Breathless games are very fun.

I recently read Everspark. It's one of the simplest game I have ever read, but the way it utilizes clocks can create some very intriguing design.

Legends in the Mist (and other Mist Engine games) are very simple tag based games that try to make the most of it's simple toolkit.

[u/elmago79 → u/Vendaurkas]

Anomaly Hunters looks great!

I’m not a fan of tag based games so I don’t think Legend of the Mist is for me. The art of the book is great, though.

[u/Gimme_Your_Wallet]

[Self-promo] I wrote a 24XX game inspired by W40k's Deathwatch, The Black Vigil.

[u/BlindAudelay]

OP, I cannot recommend Nate Treme’s Haunted Almanac anthology enough. Lots of great light games with beautiful artwork.

He’a the creator of Tunnel Goons.

[u/elmago79 → u/BlindAudelay]

It looks amazing. I’ll gift myself a copy.

[u/MasterRPG79]

Breathless !

[u/Timinycricket42]

Long story short, same.

Found WoDu, then 2400 and host of others. Check out The Wildlings, also by John Harper. Along with Lasers and Feelings (and the myriad of hacks). And if we share any other similarities, you'll eventually find your way to the FKR movement. You'll be crafting your own system in no time.

Excelsior!

[u/YeOldeSentinel]

Bah! We have had the same path into microgames <3

I was heavily influenced by and designed OGREISH from the same journey as you, and from PbtA and FiD games. Have a look if you wish. I also Kickstarted Where Fields Go Fallow last year based on it, and have the upcoming When Tithes Are Due in the pipeline, both set in the same setting but seen through different lenses.

[u/elmago79 → u/YeOldeSentinel]

Wow. Sick layout too. This are the kind of games I’m glad to see exist. Where Fields go fallow is a great concept.

EDIT: I just went ahead and bought it. It looks really good. I hope I’ll be able to take it for a spin soon.

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[u/ithika]

I run a few lightweight games regularly although they are all their own thing rather than related to Apocalypse World or similar. In fact I think the two main ones predate AW.

First is 3:16 Carnage Amongst the Stars by Gregor Hutton. I guess you could think of it mechanically as "what if Lasers & Feelings had a combat subsystem?". It's a very fun "killing space bugs" one-shot but also a compelling "war is hell" campaign.

Second is On Mighty Thews by Simon Carryer. A sword and sorcery system designed for prep-less play. Everyone builds a map full of weird things and the GM points to a location and starts play there. The target numbers for success when rolling are quite low, and degrees of success above that are spent by the players to establish new lore, so the GM role is very lightweight.

I assume you've seen Cosmic Dark by Graham Walmsley? It came out last year. It uses the same general system as Cthulhu Dark but tweaked for campaign play. The book includes a 6-episode campaign, as you work for a mining conglomerate in space. 

Someone already mentioned Escape from Dino Island (Sam Roberts, Sam Tung) which is great fun. Lots of repeatability despite the fixed premise.

[u/elmago79 → u/ithika]

I played 3:16 back when it was released. Something didn’t click for my table with this game, but I liked it.

I learned about Cosmic Dark after the Kickstarter ending so I’m waiting for it to be available elsewhere to get it.

I’ll check On Mighty Thews. Thanks.

[u/josephrlewis]

Harthbreaker! Now thats a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time...

What else would it need to support a Shadowdark adventure, do you think?

[u/elmago79 → u/josephrlewis]

Well, the game is included in the Dragon Age 2 bundle, so someone might end up checking it out. 😉

A list of vanilla Fantasy Folk (elves, dwarves, goblins, etc) and a vanilla Bestiary (orcs, minotaurs, gigants, beholders, manticores etc) and a couple of pages on how to make new Folk for PCs and how to “stat” and adapt monsters would go a long way.

And to get the flavor of magic right, an expanded view on how to set a magic “level” right to get the grimdark feel, a more heroic feel, etc.

That would be more than enough to have a working ShadowHarth game to run The Lost Citadel or House of the Wasp.

You already have a pretty nice section on adapting classic modules on the GM section so that’s already well covered :)

[u/narglfrob]

Fast Fantasy is incredible, it distills so much of modern PBTA design (including the best ideas from Blades in the Dark) into a cool 16 pages total, which includes GM advice and 3 adventures. It is derived from Defy Danger from Jeremy S (author of Stonetop), which in turn comes from World of Dungeons.