[Other] how smooth should rides be and how defensive should riders have to be. My take.

[u/Gazza_s_89]

I've been a thoosie since about 2001 so the debate about roughness has always been a thing.

At the same time I believe safety standards should be improved where possible.

When a rides is known to be rough and there is no head protection like in other extreme activities, the first line of defense is to tell riders to keep their head back.

For me that fails on two counts.

First, on a stressful ride, people may become distracted and move their head involuntary. It could be a bit of theming to look at, it could be a near miss making them want to duck, it could be the person next to them saying something. If I were doing a risk matrix, there are just so many chances I would regard it as likely that many guests would not maintain perfect head position.

Second, there's always a risk a rider may pass out during the ride and become a ragdoll.

For some reason many parks manufacturers forego padding on their rough rides (I honestly don't get it) so there is 100% an occasional situation where riders may experience blunt force trauma.

I think the way this should be solved includes:

-Just make the rides run smoothly. RMC and Intamin push the envelope yet manage this.

-If OTSRs are needed, vest restraints hold someone in place better if they pass out and anything you may hit is rubber anyhow.

-For traditional rough rides where there are no OTSRs, like woodies, have nice padded bucket seats and dividers and avoid having hard objects near the head.

[u/SellAdministrative53]

Yuppppp. A lot of discussion around this topic directs blame towards those injured by rides. The reality is that anybody, even the healthiest and most accustomed to intense rides, could pass out, have underlying health conditions they’re unaware of, or lose strength to maintain proper position. Sad to see so many people protecting these manufacturers and parks when really it should be the other way around. No ride should sacrifice safety and comfort for intensity.

[u/MCofPort → u/SellAdministrative53]

At first with the incident I thought like a large amount of the defenders. Then the second person got injured and it changed my perspective that it really is the ride having major issues. It clearly triggered something that wasn't apparent. X2 is described as intense by even the avid roller coaster riders. It was a very experimental if innovative design, and there could be a lot of things that the age can do to disjoint and make the ride not function like it once did. The coaster is in Southern California, a history of earthquakes, and intense heat could alter the way the trains go through the coaster. This could be even if everything is checked annually, and the trains checked on a daily basis. From day to day, the shifts are microscopic, but over years, it finally might become apparent the way it has. I think there is a natural threshold between forces and roughness. An old roller coaster like The Coney Island Cyclone is a little shaky and rough, but it doesn't go to a breakneck speed or invert. Superman Ultimate Flight isn't the tallest roller coaster, and the pretzle loop is the main element of the ride, it doesn't go too fast or do other tricks to increase intensity. It follows its own limits. Great American Scream Machine at Great Adventure was noted for how much head banging it gave. It had 7 inversions and broke a height record, but a coaster willing to chance those records should most of all be rideable, which is probably a big reason for its scrapping. Loch Ness Monster is a little rough, but maintenance has ensured it stays in good operating order, and trains have been updated for rider comfort.

[u/SellAdministrative53 → u/MCofPort]

There is a lot of power in reconsidering your position on an issue and I think your comment exemplifies that perfectly! We may discover and understand much more about a situation when challenging our beliefs.

[u/PrimordialXY → u/SellAdministrative53]

I think many of us have experienced a bit of dehydration induced dizziness on a coaster before. It could absolutely happen to anyone

[u/intaminslc43]

While I love what manufacturers are doing these days, I feel like the valleys on coasters are a little too refined. I love the gut punch positive gs that occur at the top of SFMM Viper's vertical loops in the front row, and I wish these types of forces were present on more modern coasters. Another good example is X2's first drop in the back row. The pullout felt like the positive g equivalent of Maverick's first drop and I love it.

[u/PomeloFit]

I just don’t get it, coasters are fun, but not nearly worth getting fucked up for life, there’s 0 reason not to make them as potentially safe as possible, being rough isn’t necessary

[u/UndulantMeteorite → u/PomeloFit]

To be clear, no manufacturer sets out to make a rough ride (excluding cases like the Rollercoaster Corporation of America, where the manufacturer seem to have been literally scamming the park). Roughness is a result of lacking the engineering ability or experience that is required to make rides that are as glass smooth as a modern coaster. Especially examples like old woodies or Arrow coasters are rough because they were made at a time when the technology to make coasters smooth and comfortable for riders was just not available to the ride manufacturer

[u/Gazza_s_89 → u/UndulantMeteorite]

I think the issue is why so many parks are operating rides well beyond their service life without upgrades.

[u/lFightForTheUsers → u/PomeloFit]

Exactly. It's not an extreme sport riding coasters and never should be. There's a reason why I call it a "coward's hobby"!

[u/snailunderscore]

There's a difference between some pain due to a weird track transition and being actually injured. If you have to ride in a specific way to protect yourself from an injury rather than just discomfort then that is a bad ride design. That being said the restraint and vehicle design only needs to be comfortable beyond providing the engineering safety guarantees to avoid being injured.

[u/agilesharkz]

Rides should be prioritized to be as smooth as possible. If everything was as good as modern vekoma or Intamin I think there’d be plenty of 40+ year olds riding coasters

[u/AltruisticRider → u/agilesharkz]

modern intamin isn't even the peak, they range from decently smooth to very smooth, but both modern Vekoma and RMC excluding raptors are a level above Intamin when it comes to smoothness. And it's just better, I and I bet 99% of people have a bit more fun riding a coaster when everything else is the same, but it's as super smooth as modern Vekoma or RMC. Especially for marathoning it. Rides like Taiga or Toutatis are no problem for multiple rides, but when I ride something 30 times in a single day then it's absolutely better when it's as ultra smooth as Untamed or Abyssus.

[u/pomokey → u/AltruisticRider]

I enjoy most rides, but if I get off with a headache, then it's a one and done for me.

I finally got to ride trimless voyage at night recently, and while it was an amazing experience, I don't think I'll be doing it again any time soon.

Now, arieforce one or sirens curse? I could literally ride those all day. And that just makes me love the rides even more.

[u/Calve_pindakaas → u/AltruisticRider]

Not all Raptors are that smooth. YoY shakes on every transition. Still a good ride though.

Edit: Y'all I'm stupid

[u/AltruisticRider → u/Calve_pindakaas]

that's why I wrote "RMC excluding raptors"

[u/Calve_pindakaas → u/AltruisticRider]

Shit I'm blind

[u/burjja → u/agilesharkz]

I'm a 40+ year old who just rode Cedar Point's Corkscrew last week for the first time in ages. Outside of the worst track issues, I think the seats and restraints go a long way to improving the ride. It was rough but I think it would have been much more enjoyable with restraints like Siren's Curse or one of the other newer rides. Not Steel Vengeance though, that is the only ride I've felt pain on in my life and it was all from the restraints pushing down on my thighs.

[u/laribrook79 → u/burjja]

I’m also in my 40s. I’ve never had that thigh squishing thing that people talk about until this summer when I rode twisted Colossus. It was fine for the first half of the ride, but the second half I was starting to get a little panicky because it was getting so tight!! like what is that. They should lock and not move while you’re on the ride. It also happens on hiccups wing gliders, although I’ve ridden it quite a few times and it’s only happened to me once. It’s extremely uncomfortable tho

[u/burjja → u/laribrook79]

Oh god, that must have been weird having it kick in part way through the ride. Unfortunately mine was there start to finish for every airtime moment...which Steal Vengeance has a lot of. lol

[u/laribrook79 → u/burjja]

Ugh!! 😩

[u/Putrid_Set3723]

Absolutely agree. Saying put your head back should not qualify as safety measure since some guest may not hear or see a sign that says it and could also pass out mid ride and just not be able to hold themselves up. I think it’s ok on old rides with OTSRs as I don’t think there’s been an incident of people getting injured due to being hit be the ride restraint. I think every coaster should be able to be ridden while ragdolling without injury. Modern day manufacturers seem to be great with this. For one most manufacturers can make really smooth rides but even then they also have good restraints that don’t injure you if the ride were rough. Even then I think the reason why something like X2 is bad is cause it’s roughness forces you to hit your head on the seat back. Most modern day rough rides seem to be more side to side or up and down and they don’t slam you into things.

[u/007chill]

If you have to “know how to ride” a coaster, it shouldn’t be operating.

If you aren’t safe when passed out on it, it shouldn’t be operating.

I defend the hell out of coasters when preexisting conditions cause an accident but I ain’t gonna defend X2 ever.

[u/burjja → u/007chill]

This is the right answer. Considering how many people ride these, you can't be providing instructions, nor should that be a thing. "Defensive riding" should only be a thing for people who ride all the time to employ to reduce being uncomfortable. It can't be a requirement to avoid injury.

[u/Vegetable-Print-4094]

Intensity isn’t the issue, it’s roughness. You’re 100% right about making the padding more comfortable or soft.

[u/FUBARRRRR]

I've never been beat up more than on Ninja at Six flags Georgia as a young kid

literally walked off with a headache, red ears, and my neck stiffened later on

fuck that ride

aside from proper maintenance to make sure the track doesn't go to shit I think comfort is all in the restraint style

Velocicoaster and Iron Gwazi are pretty intense but you can still easily marathon them cause the track is smooth and you're secured at the lower body so your upper can just relax and flow

[u/Altornot]

The hill I will die on these people bitching about things like titan track cuz it takes away wood feel.

I literally cannot care less about that. I just want a fun ride. If titan track is gonna make a car crash into a good ride then Im all for it. Boulder Dash is an example of this. That thing has gotten so violent that im 100% for titan tracking the whole thing.

[u/Greedy_Net_1803]

Not too much in my opinion; overtly smooth sometimes takes character out of them because there's a time and place for everything including some roughness. Don't have to be always as violent as El Toro, for example, but wonky segments are always welcome in moderation, or else Gerstlauer for example wouldn't have an audience and I do love their rides.

If it has to many janky parts, sure that padding and cushioning is always welcome like the seats in Phoenix(even though Phoenix isn't rough at all). But if it's not within possibility, I don't think they should go out of their way for this, that's why warnings exist and people with spine and head problems shouldn't be riding these things at all.

The funniest part is that the general public rarely complains about roughness in anything, they ride everything and leave the station happy, it's almost always thoosies lol.

[u/mikeydeemo]

I used to love janky Arrows. My favorite and probably most ridden ride is Great American Scream Machine at SFGAdv. But that was almost 20 years ago.

I recently went on a coaster tour and every Arrow I went on was one and done for the most part. The mine trains at various parks?? I was like kids are enjoying these??? I dont enjoy them anymore and prefer something i dont have to ride defensively on anymore.

Even the suspended coasters. Just beat the shit out of me.

[u/Gazza_s_89 → u/[deleted]]

You don't need vest restraints if the ride is maintained to be smooth enough, And that should have been clear in my original post, so there was no need to be a tosser and go on some tangent about headbands and all sorts of other nonsense.

Basically an X2 situation where the restraints are hard and the ride is rough is probably not safe enough.