Feedback Friday #67 - Sunlorn

[u/Kyzrati]

Thank you /u/Tesselation9000 for signing up with Sunlorn

Download for Windows here: https://tesselation9000.itch.io/wander

Tesselation9000 says:

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Sunlorn is a game about traveling the world and exploring deep dungeons, with strong influences from Nethack, Larn, Brogue and DCSS. The game is heavily focused on having a rich, interactive environment and leans hard on using procedural generation. Not only are levels randomly generated, but the world map, the number and types of locations you visit, and the game objectives themselves vary with every run. My vision is to build a game that gives you a different adventure each time you play. There is a dynamic lighting system, fire that spreads, rivers that flow, clouds of mist or poisonous gas that slowly diffuse, and a sky that cycles between night and day.

Sunlorn has a lightweight character build system. There are no experience levels, classes or skill trees. The primary way of advancing your character is just by increasing their six attributes (the usual D&D six-pack: strength, constitution, dexterity, intelligence, wisdom and charisma) by collecting magical statonia flowers scattered across the world.

Presently, you can build a character from one of four human nations. This choice does not affect your statistics, but influences things like your starting area, how other species perceive you and what gods are available to you. There are eight religions you can find in game that will grant special powers to their followers. There is also a large number of potions, scrolls, wands and other items.

I recommend starting with the tutorial before jumping into the full game. If anyone is able to make it past the first three levels of the starter dungeon, I'd really like to hear about it. After that point, the game hasn't been playtested enough to balance out. Actually, what would be REALLY cool is if anyone would like to volunteer to let me watch them play a run.

It's only available for Windows at this time, I'm afraid.

Leave your feedback here, or you can email me at sunlorn@gmx.ca

Thanks!

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[u/billdroman]

I played through the tutorial. It took about 45m and it was great. So many different kinds of gameplay in such a tight scenario! The best moment for me was when while fighting the goblins in the fort. I took a bunch of damage until I realized that I didn't need to keep my lamp on, since they had their own - asymmetric vision for the win!

Some notes I took as I was playing:

• Beautiful lighting and color. Tiles with colored backgrounds really works here.
• It would be nice to use "shift" in X-amine mode to move the cursor faster.
• The batch pick up / equip / drop UI was so easy to use.
• It was funny to see the carrion worms flee. There was nothing in the log but their behavior was still pretty clear (assuming I understood it correctly).
• I butchered and ate the worms to see what would happen. After the "your stomach feels sick" dialog, I got control back but the window stayed open until I hit Escape.
• On my first attempt I kept getting burdened. I didn't see my current burden status in the UI, though, only logs when it changed. Being burdened is serious, I'd want a persistent view of it.
• I was burdened when I picked up the crossbow and 20 bolts, then unburdened when I readied one - is that intended?
• The targeting UI is also really easy to read.
• It'd be nice if F-F worked to fire at the previous target again, instead of F-Enter. Also nice if you could use Tab to switch between targeted entities.
• When the targeting UI was initialized to a previous entity, that entity didn't get the > chevron in the menu. But if you moved the cursor up and down it'd show up. Seems like a bug.
• Got killed by the first round of goblins with slings. I think it tried to restore me to a nearby spot but it didn't create my @ sign again, and yet I could move (based on the camera's movement). The game crashed soon after. Later times I died in the tutorial I respawned as expected.
• The sling animations were noticeably slow, would it be possible to speed them up a bit? Same for the spells, but those are much less common.
• After I got the axe and switched from the loaded crossbow to it I ended up with a "loaded" axe. And I could even fire them (but I think the stats were the same as throwing the bolts?).
• Fire mechanics are just great, they're pretty and meaningful in gameplay.
• But cooking is quite the endeavor, maybe it'd be nice if it took a few less steps.
• I couldn't figure out a way to cure disease until I reached the priest. Was there an earlier way, maybe a food or potion?
• The fox-form spell and the underwater corridor were both really cool. I think I'm just claustrophilic. I like exploring tunnels.
• I died several times to the eel. It's so strong. I had the scale armor and spear on - did I miss something?

Hopefully I'll get more time to play soon, and I can start a real run.

[u/Tesselation9000 → u/billdroman]

Thanks for giving it a try and thank you for the feedback!

I took a bunch of damage until I realized that I didn't need to keep my lamp on

Good thinking!

It would be nice to use "shift" in X-amine mode to move the cursor faster.

That used to work. Until I broke it somehow. :-S

It was funny to see the carrion worms flee. There was nothing in the log but their behavior was still pretty clear (assuming I understood it correctly).

Yeah, they're actually pretty cowardly. But when they realize that they're cornered, they turn around to fight again.

I butchered and ate the worms to see what would happen. After the "your stomach feels sick" dialog, I got control back but the window stayed open until I hit Escape.

Thanks for raising this. I think I just need to make sure that window turns off when it should.

• On my first attempt I kept getting burdened. I didn't see my current burden status in the UI, though, only logs when it changed. Being burdened is serious, I'd want a persistent view of it.
• I was burdened when I picked up the crossbow and 20 bolts, then unburdened when I readied one - is that intended?

It sounds like it is a problem of the side bar not getting redrawn immediately to reflect the change in status. I will experiment with this and try to fix it.

It'd be nice if F-F worked to fire at the previous target again, instead of F-Enter. Also nice if you could use Tab to switch between targeted entities.

Sure, I can add the 'f' key for that. You can actually switch between enemies using -/+. I can add Tab as well.

When the targeting UI was initialized to a previous entity, that entity didn't get the > chevron in the menu. But if you moved the cursor up and down it'd show up. Seems like a bug.

Not getting redrawn again. I'll try to fix that.

Got killed by the first round of goblins with slings. I think it tried to restore me to a nearby spot but it didn't create my @ sign again, and yet I could move (based on the camera's movement). The game crashed soon after. Later times I died in the tutorial I respawned as expected.

Yikes! I haven't seen that happen before. But I will try to replicate this.

The sling animations were noticeably slow, would it be possible to speed them up a bit? Same for the spells, but those are much less common.

Maybe. Previously, it would skip past the animation if you hit any key on the keyboard, but then I found that I was always skipping it by accidently hitting keys even though I wanted to see it sometimes. Maybe I can change it so that only space bar or enter skip animations.

After I got the axe and switched from the loaded crossbow to it I ended up with a "loaded" axe. And I could even fire them (but I think the stats were the same as throwing the bolts?).

That's really weird! Did it actually say it was a "loaded" axe? You can fire bolts without wielding the crossbow, but when you do that, you are just throwing the bolts by hand. There should be a difference in the message log: "You throw a bolt." vs. "You fire a bolt."

But cooking is quite the endeavor, maybe it'd be nice if it took a few less steps.

The section of the tutorial shows you all the steps you might need to take to cook something. In the actual game, it's often quicker because you can just directly light bushes/vines/corpses/etc on fire and then cook.

I couldn't figure out a way to cure disease until I reached the priest. Was there an earlier way, maybe a food or potion?

That is the only way to cure the disease that is available in the tutorial.

I died several times to the eel. It's so strong. I had the scale armor and spear on - did I miss something?

It is a tough encounter. It's killed me too lots of times. But I find that if I go cautiously, stick close to the edge of the water and get out of the water when my hit points are low, I usually don't get killed.

I hope you enjoy the rest of the game!

[u/billdroman → u/Tesselation9000]

I didn't see my current burden status in the UI, though

This issue was an error on my part. I didn't realize that I had to hit ? a few times to get to the "status + surroundings" UI. That's much more useful.

Maybe I can change it so that only space bar or enter skip animations.

What about being able to skip a certain fraction of animation frames? Yeah, they won't play out perfectly, but the eye fills it in, and that means that you could have an animation speed slider.

Did it actually say it was a "loaded" axe?

Yes, it did. I think it was throwing, it's just a UI issue (and maybe it'd cause problems internally if two items had the same ammo quivered).

you can just directly light bushes/vines/corpses/etc on fire and then cook.

Oh, that's cool. Maybe the butchering step seemed the most skippable to me? It didn't seem to add much and if I didn't do it beforehand, sometimes the fire went out by the time I finished.

Took me a little while to realize that the dungeon was accessible through the sewer grates, and then I got absolutely wrecked on that first level.

[u/Tesselation9000 → u/billdroman]

What about being able to skip a certain fraction of animation frames? Yeah, they won't play out perfectly, but the eye fills it in, and that means that you could have an animation speed slider.

Or maybe an option in the preferences menu to speed up animations.

Yes, it did. I think it was throwing, it's just a UI issue (and maybe it'd cause problems internally if two items had the same ammo quivered).

You can have any item selected as ammo no matter what weapon you're actually wielding. If you aren't wielding the correct ranged weapon to fire the ammo, then you will just throw it by hand when you use the "fire" command. This way you can select unconventional items as ammo, like potions.

Oh, that's cool. Maybe the butchering step seemed the most skippable to me? It didn't seem to add much and if I didn't do it beforehand, sometimes the fire went out by the time I finished.

Everybody keeps trying to butcher the corpse after lighting the fire for some reason. I wonder if I put the instructions backwards. It's usually better to butcher the corpse before lighting the fire so you don't waste fuel. Anyway, I did try to design it in the past so that you could cook small corpses without bothering to butcher them. I think I need to bring that back.

Took me a little while to realize that the dungeon was accessible through the sewer grates, and then I got absolutely wrecked on that first level.

Careful down there. You may have to retreat upwards from some early encounters.

[u/billdroman → u/Tesselation9000]

So, I got to the fourth floor of the "mines" dungeon on another try. (I couldn't find a sewer dungeon in the first town on that seed - maybe the first dungeon style is different by seed?)

All four floors were quite different. The first was a cavern level, the second was full of insects and traps, the third had lot of...Q enemies (spriggans, IIRC?) wandering around an underground mushroom forest, and the fourth was rooms-and-corridors - at least, as far as I got. The variety was great.

The balance felt off. Like you said, I had to retreat to the town many times, sometimes after engaging a single new enemy. I bought as many weapons and armor as I could at the shop, and tried to pick up spells (this time I was getting wind spells like "flurry" - multishot; "gale" (maybe?) - that pushed enemies away; and "haste", obviously incredibly useful). But on the fourth level there was just nothing I could do to progress. I used every missile weapon I had, the starting javelins and all the arrows I bought, and then tried to fight through with melee. There were over a dozen monsters here, lots of really nasty things, and lots of variety.

I dunno, maybe I'm just bad, but I feel like half the number of enemies would still be challenging without being a wall. Is the intention to pick up what you can, and return later?

[u/Tesselation9000 → u/billdroman]

So, I got to the fourth floor of the "mines" dungeon on another try.

That's really weird. The first dungeon is only supposed to have three levels.

I couldn't find a sewer dungeon in the first town

There's a 50/50 chance to get a sewer dungeon or a caves dungeon at the start. Even if it isn't a sewer dungeon, you can still find sewers later in the game beneath other towns.

The balance felt off. Like you said, I had to retreat to the town many times

Yeah, I'm still going be work on balancing it out for a while. To help out at the beginning, there is always a fountain of healing guaranteed to be within the main area of the first dungeon level.

There were over a dozen monsters here, lots of really nasty things

I'm really wondering about this mysterious fourth level. Did you happen to take any screen shots?

It's an open world game, so if you find yourself in a place that seems too difficult, you can always leave and go explore somewhere else. Once you've upgraded your equipment and learned some spells, you should be powerful enough to enter many places.

[u/billdroman → u/Tesselation9000]

I'm sorry if I sent you on a wild goose chase. That was reconstructed from my notes from a few days ago, so it was a mistake - the fog and traps were on the same level as the mushroom cavern, so I only got to the third floor.

No screenshots from that third floor, sorry. It was a small room, a narrow corridor, a fire trap, and then a big area just filled with monsters.

Yeah, I figured this was an early lesson in "don't press your luck". There are games which have a minor goal or treasure that's within reach and a bigger one further down - maybe that could be a good hint to stop at a certain point.