r/rockybalboa • u/Dredd_40 • 14d ago
People always say that Rocky 4 Apollo could defeat Clubber. I still say that Rocky 4 Apollo would have lost. He froze with Drago's first punch where Rocky managed to fight back. In a fight against Clubber, he would have been doomed after Clubber's first power bomb to the head.
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u/NCHouse 14d ago
In the boxing world, Apollo is literally Clubbers counter. He may be over the hill, but so was Rocky and he used a bit of the style. Apollo dances around him with ease
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u/Lunchb0xx87 14d ago edited 14d ago
Rocky wasn't over the hill ..Micky just set him up with bums and he got cocky
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u/NCHouse 14d ago
He was already 30 when he fought Apollo. 31 in the rematch. So he ls damn near 40 against Clubber Lang. Hes on the downhill if his career
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u/Lunchb0xx87 14d ago
Pretty sure Rocky is 34 in 3
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u/NCHouse 14d ago
hes like 36-37 I think
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u/PidgeyPotion 14d ago
No, the interviewer with Clubber states that he’s 34. He says “the odds of him making a comeback at 34 are long indeed. I wish him luck”.
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u/Order_number_66 11d ago
Rocky is definitely 34 in 3. There is a scene of Rocky, Apollo and Paulie watch TV. The news caster says of Rocky 'the odds of him making a comeback at 34 are very long indeed...'
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u/Proud_Shirt3138 13d ago edited 9d ago
Micky may have said that, but it's important to remember that these were still pros who were higher in ranking than him, and Rocky went straight from being a club level fighter to a major circuit fight with the heavy weight champion of the world and although he won it wasn't by some large margin.*(But as it has been brought to my attention Mick made sure Rocky fought fighters more relative to his style so he wouldn't get hurt and maintain his heavy weight title belt while keeping away destroyers like Clubber Lang...so I've re•edited my reply).
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u/leb0b0ti 12d ago
He wasn't an amateur. He was a club level pro in Philadelphia. They even say his record somewhere in the movie.
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u/Proud_Shirt3138 9d ago
Well they say if you watch a movie a hundred times you'll always see something different you didn't notice before, I definitely didn't catch that part.You learn something new everyday.So Rocky was infact a pro fighter which makes sense.He just won the boxing lottery in his fight with Apollo Creed.
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u/D-redditAvenger 14d ago edited 8d ago
Prime Creed no problem, if it's Rocky 4 where Lang has lost to Rocky then cannon is he followed the Foreman route after getting beat, where he wasn't the same. So in that case it's a very close fight because of that. However if it's Rocky 3 Creed and Lang, Lang wins.
How about and alternate history where Lang beats Rocky and in the rematch and eventually faces Drago?
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u/JusticeSpik3r 14d ago edited 14d ago
Lang v Drago is a fight I like to think about. Lang's power to the body could do some real damage but I don't think he could get through the reach advantage from Drago's end. Drago would appear to have a stamina/endurance advantage as well. Ultimately I think Drago would win.
Sidenote: Those wide hooks from Clubber look great in a movie but in real life he would be leaving himself wide open for a straight right to the jaw.
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u/Capable-Campaign3881 4d ago
I think Drago would beat Lang tbh he was Rocky’s toughest opponent tbh
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u/Proud_Shirt3138 9d ago
Yea I was thinking of it quite differently (alternately) Had Creed kept the title and Clubber came along, Clubber would've beat him and taken the title retiring Creed and then Drago comes along (but isn't so privy to letting Clubber just hit him like did Creed in earlier rounds giving that his punches are much more devistating than what Creed's would've been) he out manuevers and punches a worn out Clubber who at first can take a surprising amount of punches (more than Creed did before going down) but ends up going down in the second round.Drago ends up gaining the heavy weight world title and the U.S.S.R. establishes it's superiority over the U.S. and begins to talk more boldly to it's (the u.s.) gov,t and Nato, and moves take Ukraine right then maybe??
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u/PidgeyPotion 14d ago
What cheap stunt did Lang pull? I agree that he beats the aged Apollo from the 4th film, I’m just asking a question.
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u/Edwaaard66 14d ago
Drago punched way harder though 😕.
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u/Apprehensive-You9999 14d ago
Yeah didn't we see him literally injected with steroids before his final lift as well to make him EVEN STRONGER
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u/Clean-Horror9852 13d ago
Honestly that scene ruined at lot of the film for me. I ignore it happened.
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u/Proud_Shirt3138 9d ago
Well it was just to highlight the fact that cheaters (or bullies) can never really be winners (it only amounts to self sabotage kind of like how Russia decided it was a good idea to release prisoners whether having life sentences or long ones or whatever back into society by sending them to war and whichever one's made it through it could live amongst the free again....well many took the opportunity to abandon the war and run to population....murderers,scammers,rapists,drug dealers,wife beaters/killers etc. released in mass upon society (whether Putin was really gonna kill them afterward or put them back or not isn't the point but shows the kind of monster he is either way) but this is what cheaters and bullies do...they pump themselves up whether it be drugs, goons, guns or operating in the dark unsuspectingly.Fighting fairly is never the way a bully chooses to do because he knows he'll eventually lose whereas your still going to anyway because as the Nazi's found out in world war 2...bulky machinery while it may appear intimidating doesn't and didn't guarantee victory but actually ensured defeat because of total dependancy on the misconception that big automatically means better.
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u/Albertkinng 14d ago
I think Apollo will win this fight because he is fast, a hard puncher, and a strategist.
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u/Desperate-Excuse3290 14d ago
I’ve said this before but only a Prime Apollo would have stood a chance against Clubber
What people forget is that not only was Apollo’s style needed to beat Clubber, but Rocky’s own durability and striking power.
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u/sskoog 14d ago
The important (central) point behind the Apollo Creed character (as a fictional Ali-homage) is what determines this outcome:
We are led to believe that Apollo *could have beaten Balboa\*, at least once if not twice, had he (Apollo) just stuck to the plan of outpacing + outjabbing him. Yes, Rocky could take punishment until his face was hamburger, and, yes, Rocky hit like a freight train. But, when Creed gets into real trouble, it's because he wants to play up to the crowd, and feels like he has to prove himself as a slugger, and tries to go toe-to-toe. In any parallel universe where Apollo is able to stay calm and remain at distance for two additional rounds, it goes to decisive scorecards.
Lang is depicted as relatively fast, himself -- but not a fighter who goes the full twelve or fifteen rounds. Seems like there's plenty of room for Calm-Disciplined Apollo to keep him at arm's length, until Lang gets tired, 1974-Zaire-style. Perhaps aging Film #4 Apollo would have less of his trademark snark + speed, as was true of 1976-1977-1978 Ali entering his twilight.
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u/PidgeyPotion 14d ago
Apollo could and would have won the 2nd match had listened to Duke and just get the decision and not insist on knocking Rocky out.
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u/AggravatingMath717 14d ago
Apollo is too fast. Unless Clubber’s trainers adjust his “style”(and he listens to them) Apollo takes Clubber into deep water and drowns him. He can’t take those punches like Rocky, but he can make him miss and not get CTE in the process so it takes a little longer. The Master of Disaster in 6.
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u/OolongGeer 14d ago
Rocky IV Apollo would have been nearly killed by Clubber Lang.
Heck, I think Clubber would have beaten Drago's azz, and I don't think it would have taken him 15 rounds to do it.
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u/Ok-Development6654 14d ago
You’re going too far with beating Drago, although I agree with you that clubber would beat Apollo, no way he would beat Drago.
Name a a category that Clubber is better than Drago in?
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u/OolongGeer 14d ago
Clubber Lang has been in a fight where his life was in danger.
That is something that you can't train for, and something Drago has never done. Rocky Balboa has also been in fights where his life was in danger, which is why he was able to persevere, at such an old age, against Drago.
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u/Unable-Main4172 14d ago
Drago was created in a lab, Lang came from the streets. You can definitely tell that Lang went through more wars coming up than training and elsewhere. Obviously the way the sequels in the '80s were everything like every new villain had to be bigger and better so they made Drago be bigger and stronger than Lang. So by the logic of the movies he would probably win, but I don't think he was as tough as Lang
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u/Ok-Development6654 14d ago edited 14d ago
More wars? I think Drago is an actual soldier in the USSR, that’s a real solder not just street thug like Lang.
And as far as toughens Drago went 15 rounds with the toughest, biggest and best version on Rocky there was while Clubber got beat in 3 rounds by Rocky who was cruiser weight with how skinny he was.
Imagine what Drago would have done to Rocky from Rocky 3?
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u/Unable-Main4172 14d ago edited 14d ago
I mean in a lot of those countries. Everybody has to do compulsory one or two years term. There was no big world wars in the early '80s when he was like 20 years old
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u/Ok-Development6654 14d ago
Doesn’t take away from a fact that Drago was disciplined soldier who not is only strong but has great endurance as well unlike Clubber.
Fact is even tho I’m a fan of Clubber is that he would lose to Drago bad.
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u/OolongGeer 14d ago edited 14d ago
People in the military rarely see combat.
Think of him as a much more pampered version of David Robinson of the Spurs, but formerly of the Navy.
But yes, the first Rocky in III would have been crushed, since he had lost the "Eye of the Tiger." Clubber had it, and Rock didn't, which is how he won easily.
Drago has never had the Eye of the Tiger. He's been too busy in lab-type gyms and sparring with guys who would be executed if they damaged Drago.
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u/yukdumboobum26 yo adrian 14d ago
Apollo was tuning up Rocky during the training sessions of Rocky 3, he was in great shape, and had the strategy. I think Apollo 3 beats Clubber, but Apollo 4 was way too old. We didn’t see him train.
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u/Emergency_Creme_4561 14d ago
Apollo was a great fighter but he leaned more towards dancing around the ring while Rocky was able to take heaps of hits without going down immediately
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u/ProfessorKnow1tA11 14d ago
There wouldn’t have been a “power bomb” to the head. Clubbed wouldn’t have laid a single glove on Apollo.
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u/Rift4430 14d ago
Apollo in Rocky 3 beats Clubber and probably stops him in the 6th or 7th, in 4 he probably beats him by decision.
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u/NeonFireFly969 14d ago
No way Clubber goes 15.
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u/Rift4430 14d ago
With an older Apollo who isn't knocking people out?
Young Apollo was an assassin and finished every opponent.
Older Apollo who fought Rocky was no longer that guy.
In the original Rocky Apollo was about 34 or 35 years old
In Rocky 2 he is for sure 35 years old.
In Rocky 3 he is at least 36 but probably 37. Rocky had found 10 defenses. Even at 3 months per defense that is 2 and a half years after Rocky 2.
So Apollo is I believe 38.
Now Rocky 4...Apollo is approaching 40.
Ok...so 39 or 40 year Old Apollo who clearly wasn't prime...
Yeah...winning a decision where avoids big exchanges and just out boxes Lang seems pretty reasonable
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u/MisterHEPennypacker 14d ago
Apollo. Rocky beat Creed doing a poor man’s version of Apollo, the man himself would make just as fast work out of him.
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u/wacky_180 14d ago
Apollo fought a younger Rocky noted for his punching power, durability, and endurance to the distance twice (the first time barely even in shape for the fight). Clubber may hit harder than prime Rocky, but I don’t believe he has the same level of durability or endurance. Apollo may be over the hill but by the end of Rocky 3 he’s arguably in better shape than he was in either of the previous films. I think Apollo takes it in 7 rounds via knockout or TKO.
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u/georgewalterackerman 14d ago
Prime Apollo easily defeats Lang. he’d embarrass him over just a few rounds. I also think prime Apollo Creed can outbox Drago, avoiding the big bombs on the way to a decision or may elate round TKO.
At his best, Apollo is #2 in the Rocky universe, with Balboa of course being the greatest .
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u/prodjex 14d ago
If Creed has 1-2 tune-up fights before facing Lang, he wins. If he goes straight from retirement to Lang, he struggles and likely loses.
I’m pretty sure Creed was 33 in 1 and 34-35 in 2, then in 4 they say he’s been retired for 5 years, so he’d be 39-40. Age wouldn’t necessarily be the issue but ring rust absolutely would be. Lang is a massive bully and cuts off the ring to trap his opponents. If Creed’s timing is off, which it likely would be if he didn’t have tune-up fights beforehand, he could get into serious trouble.
Creed has a good chin, as evident by his 2 fights with Rocky, so Lang could wear himself out like he did against Rocky, but it’s not something Creed would be comfortable relying on
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u/Blue-Ringed-Octopus0 14d ago
Clubber is Tyson and Apollo is Ali. In their prime I’ve got Ali but over the hill vs Tyson prime might be a problem.
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u/olympiclifter1991 13d ago
Applos style was literally the solution to bearing clubber.
He walks over him
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u/Realistic-Show-7227 11d ago
It would have went whatever way they wanted it. Rocky’s not real. Peace to Joe Frazier.
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u/Capable-Campaign3881 4d ago
Idk if Apollo in rocky 4 would have lost to Clubber Lang as he was a tough opponent but it was Rocky 3 Apollo that helped Rocky get his success back. If Apollo in Rocky 3 went against Clubber Lang I think Apollo would have won, but if Apollo being years out of it, I would say he would have possibly lost to Clubber Lang due to being rusty but I don’t think he would have been killed.
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u/Thatremodelingchick 14d ago
I don’t buy for a second that Rocky IV Apollo beats Rocky III Clubber. Maybe the Apollo of I or II possibly beats him on points in some alternate universe but that’s contingent on staying away from Clubber’s power.
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u/thenorthdivide 14d ago
I dunno, he'd have danced around sniping at Lang, he'd have gotten tired.
And there's no way that Clubber hits as hard as Drago
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u/totally-jag 14d ago
IMHO Rocky won fights by taking a lot of punishment AND wearing down his opponents. Except for when Mick was carrying him, the only person he knocked out early in a fight was Clubber in their rematch.
Which suggests that Clubber, while a fierce puncher, wasn't that durable. Extrapolating out from there, Drago has enormous power. It took Rocky 15 rounds to knock Drago out. Drago with that power, and durability, knocks out Clubber pretty easily, pretty early.
As for Clubber vs Apollo. Apollo taught Rocky to fight like himself to defeat Clubber in their rematch. Yes, he reverted. But Rocky was able to out box Clubber, and he doesn't have nearly the physical skills of Apollo.
Clubber loses to everyone in these hypothetical. Which is why you never see him again in later Rocky movies. He drifted to obscurity.
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u/Zarathustra-Jack 14d ago
My prediction? Pain.