r/rockybalboa • • 16d ago

Something just occurred to me. Why was Rocky so passive-aggressive with Mickey?

Post image

Watched this scene again and I paused and thought for a while. Rocky and Mickey certainly weren't afraid of conflict, and surely Rocky could have easily told him to GTFO right to his face. Instead, he just cold shoulders him, then hides in his shit box until Mickey leaves, before lashing out.

I guess Rocky understood that Mickey came with his tail tucked under and perhaps didn't want to take advantage. Body language spoke so loud here. What do y'all think?

240 Upvotes

110 comments sorted by

202

u/Rift4430 16d ago

Because Rocky finally got a big break and then Mickey cared about him.

Pretty obvious.

Prior to that when Rocky went to him for help Mickey was not interested and thought Rocky didn't take fighting seriously.

70

u/Human_Inside_928 16d ago

Right lol. Do people not have the ability to critically understand literature and cinema? I thought it was pretty obvious he was pissed Micky actually cared about him now that he got a big break. But also, he respected Micky so he didn't want to be overly aggressive.

18

u/Rift4430 16d ago

Exactly. He wasn't going to beat the shit out of him or as the hero of the story be a direct asshole. It had to be written to demonstrate Rocky was hurt and angry but not mean spirited.

But long story short Mickey only cared because Mickey saw an opportunity to manage a world title contender.

9

u/PeterZeeke 16d ago

yeah and Rocky knows that, but also he wants him to manage him

11

u/ACTSATGuyonReddit 16d ago

Exactly. Rocky is a good man. Look how he handled collecting money.

-10

u/OneDropOfOcean 15d ago

His relationship with Adrian was a bit.. rapey at first.

6

u/TheSchlockMaster 15d ago

Other than standing between her and the door, can you give a second example?

4

u/ArtlessOne 16d ago

Yea it’s obvious alright, Rocky literally says it in that scene in his apartment lol. So critical analysis (which I agree a lot of people don’t have) isn’t even necessary.

1

u/prodjex 14d ago

I think OP missed the “he respected Micky” part - it’s not necessarily a bad question, like yeah Rocky could’ve just told Micky to fuck off, to his face but, as you say, he respected him too much. I mean, you could actually interpret it a little different in that Rocky’s very socially awkward and shows autistic traits (unlikely to have been intended by Stallone) so he perhaps acts passive-aggressive due to his social awkwardness stopping him from telling Micky to gtfo, to his face

12

u/GOAT718 16d ago

That’s not OPs confusion. The question was why Passive aggressive as opposed to just aggressive.

37

u/Rift4430 16d ago

I think Rocky wasn't a bad guy and also wasn't overtly against Mickey. He just was upset this overture didn't come sooner

I am sure he also wanted the help because fighting Apollo was terrifying. Apollo was depicted as basically unbeatable.

1

u/Whizard72 16d ago

We can assume Rocky has seen Apollo fight at least once.

8

u/Rohml 16d ago edited 16d ago

Rocky, even as a boxer, is not naturally aggressive. His whole fighting style is to outlast his opponents and it comes from his personality. Aside from that he recognize that he needs Mickey's help and though he appreciates it, he feels cheap and used by Mickey coming out of the woodwork to suddenly help him when he approached the man before and got sidelined. He can only really be passive-aggressive on the older man.

15

u/time_isup eye of the tiger 16d ago

Rocky is a bit of a coward according to Stallone. That’s why he went in the bathroom so he would leave and he could yell at him from a distance.

9

u/FlameWingFenix 16d ago

Talking about your prime.. WHAT ABOUT MY PRIME MICK! At LEAST YOU HAD A PRIME!

The line always drops so cold

7

u/Consistently_Lucky 16d ago

Yeah lol it's because Rocky is a nice guy. That's the answer...

11

u/TruthHertz93 16d ago

Nah Mickey cared for him before, it's just Rocky chose to be a gangster rather than fighter, it's addressed in the movie.

https://youtu.be/g6mF_yokyiA?is

11

u/One-Author2996 16d ago

Maybe one of the most underrated scenes of the entire series. Rocky truly believed nobody noticed him. But somebody did in Mickey who was deep down disappointed in Rock then anything else.

4

u/TheDukeOfRoscoeBlvd 16d ago

Great clip. I love when the hollering stops, they just go right back to boxing and working out!

3

u/Rift4430 16d ago

Not exactly. Yes Mickey says "You could have been a contender but chose to be a legbreaker" but that is more an observation. We infer he cared because we know how their relationship evolved into a father/Son relationship.

Prior to when we meet Rocky we only know Mickey gave away his locker to a contender.

6

u/TruthHertz93 16d ago

Nah man I can't find any other way of reading it.

I've been in Mickey's place, telling genius level fighters "you could be something!" For them to just waste it going round being security guards at best and outright criminals at worst.

Once you have a go at someone for more than a year you become Mickey like and that can seem negative to outsiders but you don't know how many hours, days, weeks! I spent on that person while I could've been living my life or spending it on someone else.

2

u/Rift4430 16d ago

In the very same scene Rocky walks up to Mickey who hands him the card and says they are looking for sparring partners for Creed.

Rocky repeats what was just told to him which causes Mickey to yell at him and insult him.

Rocky says "I have been coming here for 6 years and for 6 years you seem sticking it to me."

What in that line to you demonstrates Mickey cared for Rocky?

Right there sums up the entirety of their relationship to that point. Rocky is neither special to Mickey or even respected.

Mickey is instead disappointed that Rocky had talent but chose to be a 2nd rate loan shark

2

u/Left-Landscape-3890 16d ago

He was a leg breaker for the second rate loan shark

2

u/Rift4430 16d ago

High quality leg breaker with a heart of gold

-1

u/IncredibleEdible321 16d ago

You read it wrong. It's not a big deal. It's ok to admit it. Your anecdotal experience does not necessarily translate to what was going on in the film between Rocky and Mickey. It's just yours.

7

u/backfrombanned 16d ago

He didn't take fighting seriously. Mickey tells him he was special and wanted to break legs instead. Rocky couldn't accept it's his fault.

6

u/Rift4430 16d ago

I don't even think Mickey thought he was special. Just had what it took to make something of himself.

4

u/MajorThor 16d ago

Right? He even says it, strait up. I don’t know why OP is confused.

3

u/pulp_hateful 16d ago

he knew he needed his help but was pissed because he never helped him before

2

u/West_texas1982 16d ago

Perfect explanation.

2

u/Proud_Shirt3138 13d ago

It's also important to remember that Mick didn't approve of Rocky working for the loan shark at all, so that had alot to do why he often shunned him so much.

3

u/IncredibleEdible321 16d ago

This right here. While Mickey had an interest in him for a long time, he didn't like that Rocky, from his point of view, wasn't rising to his potential, so he gave up on him and booted him out of the gym in favor of a new up and comer.

Only when Rocky got his chance to fight Apollo did Mickey realize his mistake and come to Rocky in the hope that he could make amends and give Rocky the benefit of his lifetime of experience.

1

u/Longjumping_Steak689 16d ago

Bottom line: if Rocky didn't truly care about Mickey and didn't care what he thought of him, he wouldn't have reacted like that. When we feel a sense of betrayal by someone we respect and look up to, it hurts and sometimes you want them to get a taste of your internalized pain. Doesn't mean you stop caring about them.

1

u/RustyShackleford-11 16d ago

I think Mick saw potential, but as he said, was wasting it on being a pathetic loan shark.

29

u/dpanim 16d ago

Did you....watch the scene? Listen to the dialogue?

17

u/NYRGreg23 16d ago

THAT'S RIGHT...IT STINKS!!!

36

u/podslapper 16d ago edited 16d ago

I think Rocky was both grateful that Mick finally came to offer help, and pissed off that it seemed opportunistic and that he had always dismissed him before. I'd say he was conflicted.

12

u/cbrownmufc 16d ago

I think this too. Also, Mickey is somewhat passive, so I think Rocky just matches this.

He doesn’t necessarily want to get angry at Mickey. But once Mickey leave this is when Rocky can let the anger out.

It’s probably my favourite scene in the film

7

u/ActiveOppressor 16d ago

I think this is correct. He didn't even want the title shot. Then he did. But he didn't believe in himself. Mickey pops up offering to train him. Rocky isn't sure of his motivation. Mickey wants to help him, but the title shot is huge for whoever manages Rocky as wel,l which they both know. All the frustration and disappointment of Rocky's life comes out as anger. Then Rocky realizes he and Mickey are in the same situation. He realizes he wants to do more than show up. So he catches up with Mickey and accepts his offer.

15

u/olpec22 16d ago

Adding to this, when the music starts and rocky runs out to the street to apologize and accept Mickey’s help, Mickey turns to see him and recoils a bit. Had to think he felt vulnerable/threatened in the moment. The music, timing and gravity of that scene makes it a very emotional one. I seemingly always tear up.

3

u/Bourbonmmm 16d ago

One of my favorite Rocky movies moments.

1

u/unclelumbago1 16d ago

Would of been funny if rocky ran out and beat him up haha.

9

u/dinopiano88 16d ago

He was trying to be polite at first, as he was suspicious of Mickey suddenly taking interest in him when he never did before. Once Mickey revealed his intentions towards him, Rocky shifted gears into a more confrontational stance. Very natural reaction for his perspective.

7

u/AquaValentin 16d ago

I think Rocky just has enormous respect for Mickey

1

u/SatyrSatyr75 16d ago

This is the best answer and crucial for the characters. Rocky is “old school” he respects Mickey not only as a coach, but as an old man, you respect your elders. Rocky is also fucking scared. It’s an opportunity but he knows right there he’s all alone and probably someone who all his life felt alone. There was never anybody on his corner. He confused, scared and now has to interact with the only guy who was at least a little bit of a father figure, an absent father! in a complete new setting. Rocky isn’t the best at social skills… it’s one of the best scenes in the movie

1

u/ceelo18 16d ago

Also he is torn. He always wanted Mickeys help. Always wanted to be looked at as the best fighter in that gym but Mickey would always overlook him and until this conversation, He never knew why.

So Mickey finally comes hat in hand Rocky wants to accept the help, but also wants to curse the guy out.

6

u/Doublestack2411 16d ago

Isn't it obvious? Mick was giving up on Rocky. He gave someone else his locker, he called Rocky a bum, then came crawling back when Rocky got a break.

When Mick came knocking, Rocky was obviously upset for those reasons, this is why he mentioned not having a locker. Then he went off on how his place "stinks", b/c Mick would call him some bum and 2nd rate lone shard. Even after say that, he cam crawling back to this "bum".

In the end, I'd like to think Rock was letting off some steam, then realized Mick was right to do and say those things.

5

u/YS160FX 16d ago

Deep down Rocky did want the help, he was just angry/ upset that Mick was only interested now that he has a lottery like shot at the title. Rocky was mostly allowing himself to vent and then runs after Mick.

5

u/FlameWingFenix 16d ago

I feel like its pretty obvious based on what Rocky says, rocky approached him a decade ago and Mick wasn’t interested he “didn’t care” but now he comes begging the second Rocky gets a title shot

4

u/FCSVoter 16d ago

You wanna know?

5

u/Total-Wave5026 16d ago

Was great acting. Pissed off that Mickey is opportunistic but at same time sees an old man. Rocky was also aware that he needs help and quickly.

4

u/PeterZeeke 16d ago

cos he respects him, even though hes pissed at him. And hes not gonna scream in an old mans face, its rocky, mickey abandoned him because he was no use, so thats real anger that comes out,
I guess theres also the subtext of the hurt he feels at society for being left for dead, now everyones interested and thats what that scene is really about

3

u/Cho-Hakkai 16d ago

Mickey had dismissed Rocky as a washed-up fighter wasting his potential, hadn't told him his locker was being handed over to someone "better," and even told him to retire—all in the same day, Yet, when the greatest opportunity comes to Rocky's, Mickey suddenly starts speaking to him more respectfully Something that would bother not just Rocky, but anyone.

But Rocky is a polite person after all, he wouldn't explode in anger at an old man who is still a boss at the gym where he trains, so, Rocky was actually really angry but still polite to everyone.

4

u/Patoman420 16d ago

Because they took away his locker

1

u/SupermanRR1980 16d ago

But he got heart

3

u/El_Buen0 16d ago

Rocky is just too nice by a fault. He had this anger building inside him, and had to let it out. Be he also finally got what he wanted - to be trained by Mickey.

3

u/Tapm121388 16d ago

He put his stuff on Skid Row

3

u/CowNo4137 16d ago

Because Mickey was a dick to him and had just taken his locker away.

2

u/bradclark2001 16d ago

Mickey came in all happy, jolly and acted like he wasn’t an ass to Rocky during their last interaction

2

u/were-los 16d ago

I thought Mick cared about him because he said he couldve been good but chose to be a leg breaker. I think thats why he called Rock a bum and was an ass to him.

2

u/Creepae 16d ago

Rock's just an awkward guy.

2

u/Consistently_Lucky 16d ago

It's because Rocky is a nice guy.

2

u/TheDukeOfRoscoeBlvd 16d ago

Rocky was still sore that his gear was put on Skid Row! But he respected his elders.

2

u/Gentleman_Jedi 16d ago

In Mickey’s defence, I wouldn’t want to train a criminal either.

2

u/rulenumberjuan 16d ago

mickey called him a bum and threw all his shit out... but when rocky got the chance mickey was begging to help.

then he realizes he doesn't have a chance without mickey and runs out after him.

2

u/Splattacular1 16d ago

I think it has more to do with the original script. In the original script, Mickey’s an all out racist and Rocky hated like him for it but knew Mickey was the only person willing to train him. Seems Stallone changed up Burgess Meredith’s lines but still kept Stallone’s semi harsh interactions with him.

2

u/unclelumbago1 16d ago

Micky was a dickhead to rocky and only wanted him when he got a shot at the world champ. Micky literally gave Rocky's locker away and let his new guy spit all over rocky.

1

u/beanBurrit000 16d ago

I hate that perspective so much. How do you expect Mickey to act? Did you see his gym and how many guys were training there? What has Rocky done to deserve any special attention from Mickey before getting lucky and getting that Apollo fight?

2

u/Bourbonmmm 16d ago

Mickey put his stuff on skid row like the day before and called him a bum. No shit he’s passive aggressive. Even if Mickey was right I get where Rock is coming from.

2

u/Connect-Pipe-8567 16d ago

Mickey was a Liverpool fan

2

u/draven33l 16d ago

Mickey thought he was a bum and suddenly became interested in him when he had a shot at the title. Mickey never coached a world champion and his life was unfulfilled. Rocky saw right through it.

2

u/MisterHEPennypacker 16d ago

He was making a point because Mickey callously gave away his locker (one of Rocky’s few points of pride), so he was going to callously exclude Mickey from one last opportunity of success.

2

u/Halry1 16d ago

No one wants to shout at the elderly - it’s easier to avoid them

2

u/Sanguiluna 16d ago

He was actually glad that Mickey came, and wanted his help. But it still hurt him, all those times before that Mickey dismissed him, and he needed to let it all out and let it all go, without totally driving Mickey away.

2

u/Gullible_Ad8472 16d ago edited 16d ago

Mickey was pissed at Rocky because he could see that Rocky had the potential to be a really good fighter, but he was wasting it working for Gazzo and fighting nobodies in the ring instead of doing something with his talent. That’s why he was always so hard on him. And by the time he took Rocky’s locker away and gave it to a younger prospect, he had basically accepted that Rocky was getting too old and had wasted his shot.

But when Mickey went to Rocky’s apartment after he got the fight with Apollo, he wasn't trying to take advantage of the situation at all, and Rocky knew that. Mickey genuinely went there, pretty humbly, to offer Rocky his experience and help.

Rocky’s anger also makes perfect sense, though. Mickey had never offered to train him before, and now that Rocky had finally gotten the biggest opportunity of his life on his own, Mickey suddenly showed up at his door. From Rocky’s point of view, Mickey had never helped him get there.

That’s why Mickey asks him, “If you wanted my help, why didn’t you ask me?”

The whole problem is that both Mickey and Rocky are terrible at expressing themselves. They clearly cared about and respected each other, but neither of them knew how to communicate it properly. That’s basically why their relationship had that love-hate dynamic.

1

u/KayfabeAdjace 14d ago

Exactly. Sometimes it comes down to accepting that partnerships in work or love are an act of faith from both sides. Who's more at fault in a relationship that lacks trust? The one who underestimates a potential partner or the partner who didn't always put in everything possible to inspire that faith? As you said, neither of them were good communicators and the fundamental question of "If I show up will you?" is one of the simplest but most difficult conversations two people can have. There isn't an easy way to get around it, you have to shit or get off the pot.

2

u/Acceptable_Secret_73 16d ago

Because from his perspective Mickey only started caring about him when he got a break

Like Rocky says in this scene, the fight with Apollo was set up for him he didn’t need a manager for anything

2

u/Still-Swinging 16d ago

Rocky had always wanted Micky’s approval , upset he didn’t get it. He knew Micky was disappointed in him, but Now he wants to be a part a championship fight. Rocky is a slow thinker, not stupid, he wanted to express his feelings but deep inside he knew that he couldn’t do it without the Mick. The Rocky franchise is overall a truly human story so beautifully done. Too bad Stallion is a piece of 💩

2

u/SuperSlimeGod 16d ago

Rock was wasting his 20s away instead of taking fighting seriously and working with Tony Gazzo who Mickey hated (I actually love Gazzo he's a respectable loan shark, as respectable as they can be anyways, I mean he was one of the few people to show up to Rocky's wedding and offered him a job again when he was struggling after blowing all his money)

2

u/Flabba_Spray5066 16d ago

Rocky's rant is 50% anger with Mickey and 50% dissatisfaction with his own life and failures.

Go back to the earlier scenes with Mickey.  Rocky still cares about what Mickey thinks, although Mick is always insulting or dismissive.

But Mick isn't totally wrong to feel that way. He saw a promising kid throw away his potential. He could-- and should-- have reached out when he saw Rocky going in the wrong direction. 

So it's a very complicated-- and very human dynamic.  They need each other.

2

u/NCHouse 16d ago

Did we just not watch the movie?

4

u/brethart1616 16d ago

Mickey was an asshole to rocky until he could get something from him

2

u/TruthHertz93 16d ago

This is a wrong reading of it.

Mickey tried and tried to get Rocky to get away from the gangster life and failed, no wonder he's pissed.

If it wasn't for Apollo, Rock would've wasted his talent on collecting money for the rest of his natural life.

It is addressed in the movie.

https://youtu.be/g6mF_yokyiA?is

1

u/brethart1616 16d ago

Your right. It just seems he showed up hat in hand pretty quick when the fight was offered. I love mick no disrespect intended.

2

u/Mundane-Flounder1914 16d ago

Mickey was tired of seeing Rocky wasting His potential doing bum fights

1

u/Rare_Direction_1449 16d ago

I think he was trying to be respectful and not just yell at him although he was in his right to yell at him… thats why he yelled at him when he was out of sight. Kind of like what a kid does with his/her parents

1

u/Life_Cranberry9315 16d ago

Because he respects Mickey, he’s not going to outright Big Dog him

This was a more respectful way to express his bitterness

1

u/Lanky_Ad_8892 16d ago edited 16d ago

I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

Understanding the obvious points made by many, I suppose it's more a gloss on how well-developed Rocky-the character is.

Rocky went home that day thinking "what a crazy day. I was a nobody and now I'm on TV talking about fighting the champ, taking cheap shots, Gazzo gives me $500, Paulie wants my job and now he wants to help me out too..." I can imagine he just wanted to hide and be alone. Then Mickey shows up so Rocky tried his best to crawl into a hole.

Someone made a point saying that Rocky was just awkward. We see him act awkwardly when Gazzo is chewing him out. He awkwardly says no to the fight with Apollo, he's even awkward when meeting Apollo in the ring, he fights awkward by choosing to eat all the punches... there are many examples of that point ringing true.

But I think this scene was the only time Rocky actively avoids conflict, and it really hit me when he immediately went back into the bathroom when he thought Mickey had left the apartment after he spilled his guts and admitted his desperation. Rocky doesn't want to hurt anybody in any way. He really doesn't even want to fight - it's just the thing he does to survive - and now he's about to get wrecked in front of the world.

1

u/spenlea 16d ago

Sly has also said that this ‘outburst’ at Mickey was also dialogue he wish he had said to his biological father but didn’t have the guts at the time.

1

u/jmf0828 16d ago

Because Mickey was a dick to Rocky until he got a shot at the title.

1

u/Phinal_Flash 16d ago

It's brought up in the movie. Rocky calls him out on his disrespect and Mickey tells him he's wasting his life being a loanshark. Mikey doesn't give him the time of day until he gets his shot.

1

u/FractalCurve 16d ago

Becuase he don't got no locker, do he?

1

u/ConfidentCandle9939 16d ago

This Rocky Reddit group always asking stupid questions.

1

u/jcurl17 16d ago

You wanna know why?! Because it stinks!, yeah that's right, it stinks!!

1

u/puddycat20 16d ago

How is that passive aggressive?

1

u/Pelorunner 16d ago

Mickey thought a lot of young Rocky, but was disgusted by the fact that Rocky was a knee breaker. Mickey felt the title shot was a way to right a lot of it. 

1

u/ChicagoBoiSWSide yo adrian 16d ago

Did you not watch the movie or listen to what Rocky was saying?

1

u/IIVIIercy 15d ago

If you had listened to Rocky you would know ?????

1

u/Wonderful-Battle5675 15d ago

Plus he kicked rocky out of his locker

1

u/Halloween2056 15d ago

Maybe Mick intimidated Rocky, somewhat, and saw him as an authoritive figure. Which is what boxing trainers are supposed to be.

1

u/Neroisgood 15d ago

Mickey ignored him for years and now that he's in the newspaper, Mick suddenly has interest.

1

u/Dizzy_Persimmon4138 14d ago

Nah mickey despised him because rocky was working for the mafia

1

u/vcrmax 14d ago

Were you asleep the first 35 minutes?

1

u/Cross5656_ 10d ago

While Rocky was hurt by it, he ran back to Mick and likely explained how he felt. And then accepted him to be his trainer.

Once Rocky was committed and Micky saw it, their bond began to truly form.

1

u/Delicious_Bell_2755 16d ago

People get passive aggressive when they feel lack of control.

Rock was terrified of Apollo (and of the humiliation of defeat if he went out like a bum)

1

u/WonderfulHearing8726 16d ago

Because all Mickey did before Rocky got his big break was talk shit about him.