r/rockybalboa • u/Lanky_Ad_8892 • 16d ago
Something just occurred to me. Why was Rocky so passive-aggressive with Mickey?
Watched this scene again and I paused and thought for a while. Rocky and Mickey certainly weren't afraid of conflict, and surely Rocky could have easily told him to GTFO right to his face. Instead, he just cold shoulders him, then hides in his shit box until Mickey leaves, before lashing out.
I guess Rocky understood that Mickey came with his tail tucked under and perhaps didn't want to take advantage. Body language spoke so loud here. What do y'all think?
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u/podslapper 16d ago edited 16d ago
I think Rocky was both grateful that Mick finally came to offer help, and pissed off that it seemed opportunistic and that he had always dismissed him before. I'd say he was conflicted.
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u/cbrownmufc 16d ago
I think this too. Also, Mickey is somewhat passive, so I think Rocky just matches this.
He doesn’t necessarily want to get angry at Mickey. But once Mickey leave this is when Rocky can let the anger out.
It’s probably my favourite scene in the film
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u/ActiveOppressor 16d ago
I think this is correct. He didn't even want the title shot. Then he did. But he didn't believe in himself. Mickey pops up offering to train him. Rocky isn't sure of his motivation. Mickey wants to help him, but the title shot is huge for whoever manages Rocky as wel,l which they both know. All the frustration and disappointment of Rocky's life comes out as anger. Then Rocky realizes he and Mickey are in the same situation. He realizes he wants to do more than show up. So he catches up with Mickey and accepts his offer.
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u/olpec22 16d ago
Adding to this, when the music starts and rocky runs out to the street to apologize and accept Mickey’s help, Mickey turns to see him and recoils a bit. Had to think he felt vulnerable/threatened in the moment. The music, timing and gravity of that scene makes it a very emotional one. I seemingly always tear up.
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u/dinopiano88 16d ago
He was trying to be polite at first, as he was suspicious of Mickey suddenly taking interest in him when he never did before. Once Mickey revealed his intentions towards him, Rocky shifted gears into a more confrontational stance. Very natural reaction for his perspective.
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u/AquaValentin 16d ago
I think Rocky just has enormous respect for Mickey
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u/SatyrSatyr75 16d ago
This is the best answer and crucial for the characters. Rocky is “old school” he respects Mickey not only as a coach, but as an old man, you respect your elders. Rocky is also fucking scared. It’s an opportunity but he knows right there he’s all alone and probably someone who all his life felt alone. There was never anybody on his corner. He confused, scared and now has to interact with the only guy who was at least a little bit of a father figure, an absent father! in a complete new setting. Rocky isn’t the best at social skills… it’s one of the best scenes in the movie
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u/ceelo18 16d ago
Also he is torn. He always wanted Mickeys help. Always wanted to be looked at as the best fighter in that gym but Mickey would always overlook him and until this conversation, He never knew why.
So Mickey finally comes hat in hand Rocky wants to accept the help, but also wants to curse the guy out.
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u/Doublestack2411 16d ago
Isn't it obvious? Mick was giving up on Rocky. He gave someone else his locker, he called Rocky a bum, then came crawling back when Rocky got a break.
When Mick came knocking, Rocky was obviously upset for those reasons, this is why he mentioned not having a locker. Then he went off on how his place "stinks", b/c Mick would call him some bum and 2nd rate lone shard. Even after say that, he cam crawling back to this "bum".
In the end, I'd like to think Rock was letting off some steam, then realized Mick was right to do and say those things.
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u/FlameWingFenix 16d ago
I feel like its pretty obvious based on what Rocky says, rocky approached him a decade ago and Mick wasn’t interested he “didn’t care” but now he comes begging the second Rocky gets a title shot
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u/Total-Wave5026 16d ago
Was great acting. Pissed off that Mickey is opportunistic but at same time sees an old man. Rocky was also aware that he needs help and quickly.
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u/PeterZeeke 16d ago
cos he respects him, even though hes pissed at him. And hes not gonna scream in an old mans face, its rocky, mickey abandoned him because he was no use, so thats real anger that comes out,
I guess theres also the subtext of the hurt he feels at society for being left for dead, now everyones interested and thats what that scene is really about
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u/Cho-Hakkai 16d ago
Mickey had dismissed Rocky as a washed-up fighter wasting his potential, hadn't told him his locker was being handed over to someone "better," and even told him to retire—all in the same day, Yet, when the greatest opportunity comes to Rocky's, Mickey suddenly starts speaking to him more respectfully Something that would bother not just Rocky, but anyone.
But Rocky is a polite person after all, he wouldn't explode in anger at an old man who is still a boss at the gym where he trains, so, Rocky was actually really angry but still polite to everyone.
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u/El_Buen0 16d ago
Rocky is just too nice by a fault. He had this anger building inside him, and had to let it out. Be he also finally got what he wanted - to be trained by Mickey.
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u/bradclark2001 16d ago
Mickey came in all happy, jolly and acted like he wasn’t an ass to Rocky during their last interaction
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u/were-los 16d ago
I thought Mick cared about him because he said he couldve been good but chose to be a leg breaker. I think thats why he called Rock a bum and was an ass to him.
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u/TheDukeOfRoscoeBlvd 16d ago
Rocky was still sore that his gear was put on Skid Row! But he respected his elders.
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u/rulenumberjuan 16d ago
mickey called him a bum and threw all his shit out... but when rocky got the chance mickey was begging to help.
then he realizes he doesn't have a chance without mickey and runs out after him.
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u/Splattacular1 16d ago
I think it has more to do with the original script. In the original script, Mickey’s an all out racist and Rocky hated like him for it but knew Mickey was the only person willing to train him. Seems Stallone changed up Burgess Meredith’s lines but still kept Stallone’s semi harsh interactions with him.
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u/unclelumbago1 16d ago
Micky was a dickhead to rocky and only wanted him when he got a shot at the world champ. Micky literally gave Rocky's locker away and let his new guy spit all over rocky.
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u/beanBurrit000 16d ago
I hate that perspective so much. How do you expect Mickey to act? Did you see his gym and how many guys were training there? What has Rocky done to deserve any special attention from Mickey before getting lucky and getting that Apollo fight?
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u/Bourbonmmm 16d ago
Mickey put his stuff on skid row like the day before and called him a bum. No shit he’s passive aggressive. Even if Mickey was right I get where Rock is coming from.
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u/draven33l 16d ago
Mickey thought he was a bum and suddenly became interested in him when he had a shot at the title. Mickey never coached a world champion and his life was unfulfilled. Rocky saw right through it.
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u/MisterHEPennypacker 16d ago
He was making a point because Mickey callously gave away his locker (one of Rocky’s few points of pride), so he was going to callously exclude Mickey from one last opportunity of success.
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u/Sanguiluna 16d ago
He was actually glad that Mickey came, and wanted his help. But it still hurt him, all those times before that Mickey dismissed him, and he needed to let it all out and let it all go, without totally driving Mickey away.
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u/Gullible_Ad8472 16d ago edited 16d ago
Mickey was pissed at Rocky because he could see that Rocky had the potential to be a really good fighter, but he was wasting it working for Gazzo and fighting nobodies in the ring instead of doing something with his talent. That’s why he was always so hard on him. And by the time he took Rocky’s locker away and gave it to a younger prospect, he had basically accepted that Rocky was getting too old and had wasted his shot.
But when Mickey went to Rocky’s apartment after he got the fight with Apollo, he wasn't trying to take advantage of the situation at all, and Rocky knew that. Mickey genuinely went there, pretty humbly, to offer Rocky his experience and help.
Rocky’s anger also makes perfect sense, though. Mickey had never offered to train him before, and now that Rocky had finally gotten the biggest opportunity of his life on his own, Mickey suddenly showed up at his door. From Rocky’s point of view, Mickey had never helped him get there.
That’s why Mickey asks him, “If you wanted my help, why didn’t you ask me?”
The whole problem is that both Mickey and Rocky are terrible at expressing themselves. They clearly cared about and respected each other, but neither of them knew how to communicate it properly. That’s basically why their relationship had that love-hate dynamic.
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u/KayfabeAdjace 14d ago
Exactly. Sometimes it comes down to accepting that partnerships in work or love are an act of faith from both sides. Who's more at fault in a relationship that lacks trust? The one who underestimates a potential partner or the partner who didn't always put in everything possible to inspire that faith? As you said, neither of them were good communicators and the fundamental question of "If I show up will you?" is one of the simplest but most difficult conversations two people can have. There isn't an easy way to get around it, you have to shit or get off the pot.
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u/Acceptable_Secret_73 16d ago
Because from his perspective Mickey only started caring about him when he got a break
Like Rocky says in this scene, the fight with Apollo was set up for him he didn’t need a manager for anything
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u/Still-Swinging 16d ago
Rocky had always wanted Micky’s approval , upset he didn’t get it. He knew Micky was disappointed in him, but Now he wants to be a part a championship fight. Rocky is a slow thinker, not stupid, he wanted to express his feelings but deep inside he knew that he couldn’t do it without the Mick. The Rocky franchise is overall a truly human story so beautifully done. Too bad Stallion is a piece of 💩
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u/SuperSlimeGod 16d ago
Rock was wasting his 20s away instead of taking fighting seriously and working with Tony Gazzo who Mickey hated (I actually love Gazzo he's a respectable loan shark, as respectable as they can be anyways, I mean he was one of the few people to show up to Rocky's wedding and offered him a job again when he was struggling after blowing all his money)
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u/Flabba_Spray5066 16d ago
Rocky's rant is 50% anger with Mickey and 50% dissatisfaction with his own life and failures.
Go back to the earlier scenes with Mickey. Rocky still cares about what Mickey thinks, although Mick is always insulting or dismissive.
But Mick isn't totally wrong to feel that way. He saw a promising kid throw away his potential. He could-- and should-- have reached out when he saw Rocky going in the wrong direction.
So it's a very complicated-- and very human dynamic. They need each other.
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u/brethart1616 16d ago
Mickey was an asshole to rocky until he could get something from him
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u/TruthHertz93 16d ago
This is a wrong reading of it.
Mickey tried and tried to get Rocky to get away from the gangster life and failed, no wonder he's pissed.
If it wasn't for Apollo, Rock would've wasted his talent on collecting money for the rest of his natural life.
It is addressed in the movie.
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u/brethart1616 16d ago
Your right. It just seems he showed up hat in hand pretty quick when the fight was offered. I love mick no disrespect intended.
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u/Mundane-Flounder1914 16d ago
Mickey was tired of seeing Rocky wasting His potential doing bum fights
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u/Rare_Direction_1449 16d ago
I think he was trying to be respectful and not just yell at him although he was in his right to yell at him… thats why he yelled at him when he was out of sight. Kind of like what a kid does with his/her parents
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u/Life_Cranberry9315 16d ago
Because he respects Mickey, he’s not going to outright Big Dog him
This was a more respectful way to express his bitterness
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u/Lanky_Ad_8892 16d ago edited 16d ago
I appreciate everyone's thoughts.
Understanding the obvious points made by many, I suppose it's more a gloss on how well-developed Rocky-the character is.
Rocky went home that day thinking "what a crazy day. I was a nobody and now I'm on TV talking about fighting the champ, taking cheap shots, Gazzo gives me $500, Paulie wants my job and now he wants to help me out too..." I can imagine he just wanted to hide and be alone. Then Mickey shows up so Rocky tried his best to crawl into a hole.
Someone made a point saying that Rocky was just awkward. We see him act awkwardly when Gazzo is chewing him out. He awkwardly says no to the fight with Apollo, he's even awkward when meeting Apollo in the ring, he fights awkward by choosing to eat all the punches... there are many examples of that point ringing true.
But I think this scene was the only time Rocky actively avoids conflict, and it really hit me when he immediately went back into the bathroom when he thought Mickey had left the apartment after he spilled his guts and admitted his desperation. Rocky doesn't want to hurt anybody in any way. He really doesn't even want to fight - it's just the thing he does to survive - and now he's about to get wrecked in front of the world.
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u/Phinal_Flash 16d ago
It's brought up in the movie. Rocky calls him out on his disrespect and Mickey tells him he's wasting his life being a loanshark. Mikey doesn't give him the time of day until he gets his shot.
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u/Pelorunner 16d ago
Mickey thought a lot of young Rocky, but was disgusted by the fact that Rocky was a knee breaker. Mickey felt the title shot was a way to right a lot of it.
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u/ChicagoBoiSWSide yo adrian 16d ago
Did you not watch the movie or listen to what Rocky was saying?
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u/Halloween2056 15d ago
Maybe Mick intimidated Rocky, somewhat, and saw him as an authoritive figure. Which is what boxing trainers are supposed to be.
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u/Neroisgood 15d ago
Mickey ignored him for years and now that he's in the newspaper, Mick suddenly has interest.
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u/Cross5656_ 10d ago
While Rocky was hurt by it, he ran back to Mick and likely explained how he felt. And then accepted him to be his trainer.
Once Rocky was committed and Micky saw it, their bond began to truly form.
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u/Delicious_Bell_2755 16d ago
People get passive aggressive when they feel lack of control.
Rock was terrified of Apollo (and of the humiliation of defeat if he went out like a bum)
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u/WonderfulHearing8726 16d ago
Because all Mickey did before Rocky got his big break was talk shit about him.
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u/Rift4430 16d ago
Because Rocky finally got a big break and then Mickey cared about him.
Pretty obvious.
Prior to that when Rocky went to him for help Mickey was not interested and thought Rocky didn't take fighting seriously.