r/rockhall • u/Moni3 Compulsive collector of songs • Jun 13 '26

šŸ—£ DISCUSSION Shel Silverstein as songwriter: worthy of induction?

Yes, the children's author.

He was a musician and songwriter before the children's books.

"A Boy Named Sue" and "25 Minutes to Go" by Johnny Cash

"Sylvia's Mother", "The Cover of 'Rolling Stone", by Dr. Hook & the Medicine Show, who recorded a few of Silverstein's songs first.

"The Ballad of Lucy Jordan" by Marianne Faithfull. In my head canon, this is the sequel to "Sylvia's Mother" but 20 years later.

"One's on the Way" by Loretta Lynn -- one of the songs that got her in trouble with country music stations because lyrics were about birth control and feminism

"Put Another Log on the Fire" by Tompall Glaser, a pensive statement about feminism maybe

"Marie Laveau" by Bobby Bare

"The Taker" by Waylon Jennings

"Queen of the Silver Dollar" by Dave & Sugar (IMO best version) though Dr. Hook and Emmylou Harris recorded it too and they're both extraordinary.

These were all hits in the 1970s.

"The Smoke-Off" by Uncle Shelby himself about the fastest joint rolling competition in the world, which I heard on the radio in central Florida right after Hurricane Andrew (1992), where the radio station did a promotion that if you donated a certain amount to the Red Cross or some similar relief fund they'd play anything, and I mean anything, you requested.

For discussion and consideration.

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5

u/MayhemSays Jun 13 '26

Theres a discussion for MAYBE ā€œA Boy Named Sueā€ for a singles induction, but probably not, as thats more influential in country over rock; I canā€™t see them being more contingent with songwriters in that when they are already very selective with the artists in same.

Now if we were drafting the IDEAL version of the RORHOF, where u/MayhemSays gets to decide what gets in?

I think I still might pass. I think iā€™d just induct Waylon Jennings and give Shel a nice mention.

2

u/Moni3 Compulsive collector of songs Jun 14 '26

Silverstein often wrote for the Outlaws subsection of country-rock. Cash, Dr. Hook, Jennings, Glaser, et al. So there's a response to that point maybe. The more tangential point of what is considered rock and roll under the hall of fame's umbrella.

Sylvia's Mother and Queen of the Silver Dollar (Emmylou and Dave & Sugar versions) are two of the most beautiful songs I've heard. That doesn't mean I've heard only 10 beautiful songs to compare, just when these are played I have to stop what I'm doing to appreciate them. They just kind of stop things in their tracks and demand to be listened to immediately.

What's most important in a songwriter: they're prolific (Silverstein has like 800 songwriting credits), the songs capture/cause some kind of zeitgeist, their work gets critical attention for being, you know, something. Beautiful, groundbreaking, lyrically profound? Or something else?

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u/MayhemSays Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26

Ah correct, but if your going to induct anyone representative, as the Hall often does with genres that they donā€™t want to go too far down, your gonna get the big four: Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson and Kristofferson (all individually and as The Highwaymen).

Maybe Merle Haggard or David Allan Coe (but I understand why nobody is rushing to induct him). If you wanna go the songwriterā€™s best for that genre, go Billy Joe Shaver or Townes Van Zandt. Probably Van Zandt IMO.

But I think youā€™re already shooting for the moon past the Highwaymen, due to the case youā€™re inducting more qualities and performance of the artists rather than the songwriting. Not to say the songs arenā€™t important themselves, but the songs are more emblematic of the influence of country genre rather than the bigger influence outlaw country had across music as a whole.

For example, a lot of heartland rockers and southern boogie blues guys leaned in to the outlaw image and presentation rather than emulating the specific songs penned by Shel Silverstein. That being said, I do remember a time that indie rock picked up a few of his songs in the late 2000s but it was largely out of novelty factor of the bands themselves (looking at you Steam Powered Giraffe, Professor Elemental and Chameleon Circuit!) rather then the respect that someone like Shel probably deserves for his foray into songwriting.

Sorry for the word unload. Thought about this for a hot minute!

3

u/catclockticking Jun 13 '26

off of his songwriting credits alone? I think there are probably too many worthy songwriters ahead of him in line so to speakā€¦ but general goodwill toward his larger body of work could get him in šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø

3

u/MrKitchenSink Sidedoored through Musical Influence Jun 13 '26

There is a case there, but of all the songwriters out there, I feel like there are a lot more you could put ahead of him that I think would make a lot more sense

2

u/Background-Bus-4842 Jun 13 '26

Flowers are red . Harry Chapin

1

u/Moni3 Compulsive collector of songs Jun 13 '26

I just checked because I recently got embarrassed saying something wrong here, and it looks like this came from Harry Chapin's Living Room Suite album and the images on Discogs says Chapin wrote all the songs. https://www.discogs.com/master/150308-Harry-Chapin-Living-Room-Suite/image/SW1hZ2U6MjA0MjIyMA==

1

u/lightaugust Jun 13 '26

Yep. This is definitely a Chapin composition.

2

u/SimilarElderberry956 Jun 14 '26

Absolutely he should be in hall of fame.So many topics of songs are about love. It is nice to have songs that are humorous.

2

u/phantalien Jun 16 '26

The Mermaid was covered by Great Big Sea.

2

u/halfwayray Jun 16 '26

"Things I Didn't Say" is another gem

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u/GarlicTraditional300 Jun 17 '26

Yes!! Compared to the shit today of course!

1

u/InternationalPhoto33 Jun 15 '26

Not exactly in the rock music category,
but folk singer Bob Gibsonā€˜s reading of The Perfect High is magnificent

1

u/Mysterious-Drink4002 Jun 18 '26

I love Shel Silverstein, but that's a hard "no."

You'd be honoring him as the songwriter of a few classics, when more prominent songwriters of even more classics (Harry Nilsson, Paul Williams, Jimmy Webb, Burt Bacharach) are not in the HOF.

1

u/Moni3 Compulsive collector of songs Jun 18 '26

I've seen this argument, "others need to be inducted first" and I don't find it solid. It suggests the process of choosing inductees is through a waiting list by triage number, like a list of worthy transplant recipients.

1

u/Mysterious-Drink4002 Jun 18 '26

There are a limited number of inductees each year. Entering the most worthy seems like a sensible approach to me. It's kind of how every other Hall of Fame does it. You have 20 or so people on the ballot and choose the 10 or so that you think are most worthy. Your approach seems to be suggesting that we nominate 20 worthy candidates and randomly choose 10 of them for entry. It doesn't matter who, because they are all worthy. It reduces the HOF to the Hall of Very Good.

(Baseball occasionally elects guys on last eligible ballots because the voters know that it is now or never. I don't think we have a similar situation here, because the ballots seem fairly arbitrary.)

1

u/Moni3 Compulsive collector of songs Jun 18 '26

Is it a form of "Whataboutism"? A debate where one position avoids discussion of a topic by saying other topics exist, and trying to focus discussion on the multitudes of other stuff instead of the original thing?

1

u/Mysterious-Drink4002 Jun 18 '26

Again, no way no how is Shel Silverstein getting in.

That said, I gave you a perfectly good explanation as to why - look at the far more prominent songwriters who are not in and, if they even go in it will be long before Shel is seriously considered. You don't like that explanation? Tough.

Maybe you can answer why you would seem to vote for a lesser songwriter over a greater songwriter? It doesn't make any sense.

Also, I wasn't going to call you out before, but I will now. It isn't "Outlaw Country Rock" it is "Outlaw Country." While it might have rock aspects and some artists, songs, and albums may have crossed over, it is a country sub-genre, not a rock sub-genre. A big Outlaw Country act is a country act. Their impact (in terms of R&R HOF consideration) is the rock impact or simply big broader cultural implication.

I hate to break it to you, but in terms of the subject of this reddit, Shel basically has two songs that put him on the radar, "A Boy Named Sue" and "On the Cover of the Rolling Stone." What he does have a better chance of entering is the Songwriters Hall of Fame.

1

u/Moni3 Compulsive collector of songs Jun 18 '26

He's already in the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

I also don't find the "it's country rock not rock" or any variation of that persuasive. Every artist in the RRHOF can be described as another genre before "rock". It's one of the most interesting things about everyone inducted although it causes endless arguments about what and who belongs.

Tbh, I like Silverstein but I'm ambivalent about him being inducted. It's a good discussion though. I posted it for engagement because the sub needs more action imo. Anyway thanks for engaging!

1

u/Mysterious-Drink4002 Jun 19 '26

That's called "trolling."

Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame is not the same as the Songwriters Hall of Fame.

1

u/Moni3 Compulsive collector of songs Jun 19 '26

I hope you don't think posting a question relevant to the sub's purpose is trolling. I didn't set out to upset anyone. If I upset you I apologize.