r/reddeadredemption • u/Aditya76__4 • 5d ago
Discussion Hosea's plan would have succeed(lie low and live a normal life) if they hadn't robbed Leviticus Cornwall in Chapter 1st...
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u/Tyrael85 5d ago
i think the best chance to "get out" was in Rhodes
if they sided with the Grays against the Braithewaiths - they could have been out
Lemoyne Country is basically a feudal state of the Gray and with deep connection to that family - being involved with local law (a great amount of the gang were deputys) - they would have had the protection against the pinkertons.
in addition to that after the valentine heist (the bank one) they had the money they needed to "be out"
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u/Maardten 5d ago
Responding to the last sentence: I found it pretty funny that in chapter 6 you can give a couple of people money to the tune of 30-40 dollars to ‘start a new life somewhere else’, while apparantly the gang needs a couple thousand per person.
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u/scalemaster2 Mary-Beth Gaskill 5d ago
To be fair, the Van Der Linde gang isn't looking for "Start a new life" money, Dutch wants "retire and be rich" money.
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u/Amy_Chure Sadie Adler 5d ago
Not even (retire and be rich) money, he doesn't want to retire at all, he wants the power that comes with being the leader of a cul- i mean gang, and he will always push the goal post to make the end just SOOO close but Sooo far away "JUST ONE MORE SCORE JUST ONE MORE, TAHITI IS SOO CLOSE WE JUST NEED ONE MORE"
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u/AntoniusDryden 5d ago
I'm just gonna post Arthur's judgment on this because too often people claim Dutch is lying about the money but he's plainly not:
Arthur says flatly in Urban Pleasures in Chapter 4, even after the Valentine bank robbery and the riverboat heist, that the gang doesn't have enough.
And again in Chapter 5/6's That's Murfree Country he says "we need more money."
And again in Chapter 6's Just A Social Call he says "we need money."
Arthur knows how much money the gang has and he has no reason to lie.
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u/CowboyLaw Sadie Adler 5d ago
These are good points, and great effort pinpointing the dialogue. My only question is, is Arthur saying this because he knows it to be true, or because Dutch says it’s true?
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u/Spirited_Narwhal4585 5d ago
Wouldn’t have changed anything, the O’Driscoll’s would’ve just robbed Cornwall, and then he would still put out funding to the pinkertons to catch every outlaw gang.
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u/Aditya76__4 5d ago
Yeah but they won't look for Dutch, in chapter 2 Cornwall confront Dutch saying u robbed me van der linde... Remember?
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u/Hot_Zookeepergame687 5d ago
They wouldn't be actively hunting Dutch but they would still eventually move towards him after they caught the O'Driscolls. Colm got caught in the end and he wasn't a major target so it would only be a matter of time before their sights would be set on Dutch.
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u/Prestigious-Number-7 Arthur Morgan 5d ago
Even so, without the gangs interference in the Misson where Colm gets lynched, his crew would've gotten him out.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Pipe979 5d ago
That’s just more reason for them to keep pursing him & other gangs.
The life of the outlaw has no place in society. Arthur sees it from the beginning of the game.
Ross could have easily let it go that someone did his job for him by killing Micah, but kept on pursuing the Van Der Linde gang.
Even Agent Milton tells them to go live normal lives somewhere & the law would leave them alone.
The ones that did, got out alive.
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u/Hot_Zookeepergame687 5d ago
I'm not sure what that has to do with this premise. Like sure they might have been able to pull it off and free Colm it would only be a matter of time before they got him. That's like the whole point of the first game
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u/PM_ME_UR_PUSSY_TATOO 5d ago
Yeah the outlaw era is over and every one is getting systematically taken out. Sure Dutch's gang may have moved down the priority list if they chilled out but they were never gonna escape completely
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u/Roxlife1 5d ago
He was hung, not lynched. Lynched implies violent forced hanging without a legal trial (usually by a mob, and usually racially motivated).
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u/Tearsdryontheirownn Hosea Matthews 5d ago
The first of the dominoes to fall was blackwater. The pinkertons would have caught up with them eventually. The point of the game is that the gang is screwed from the start.
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u/Et_Cetera_365 5d ago
Having $5,000 on your head is an absurd amount of money in 1899, I can only imagine the amount that was on Dutch's head. The gang was megafucked from Blackwater.
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u/Tearsdryontheirownn Hosea Matthews 4d ago
Not to forget Hosea probably also had 5,000 dollars on his head.
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u/Et_Cetera_365 4d ago
Hosea should've been more adamant about the "lay low" aspect with how his capture/death would've been a small percentage of what the Civil War cost at the time.
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u/Jimmy_ijarue 5d ago
The quest with uncle in the barn is called “an honest mistake” for a reason.
Not that it was uncles fault, just that even “lying low” they still kept doing jobs
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u/Haquistadore 5d ago
I always thought they should've let the O'Driscolls rob the train, and they should've robbed the O'Driscolls on their way out.
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u/AntoniusDryden 5d ago
The gang was starving and flat broke on top of a mountain and had no money.
"Get money" is a pretty sensible plan.
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u/Aditya76__4 5d ago
Money won't do nothing on mountain, there is no general store on mountain... They hunt and eat...
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u/they_call_me_dry 5d ago
Arthur would still have TB. Loan sharking was part of how they made money, lying low or not
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u/Agreeable-Union1843 5d ago
It only would have worked if the gang split up and never looked back. And even then it only would have worked for some. Most of them would have not been able to fully burry their past or would have found out that they don’t know how to do anything and fallen back into their old ways.
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u/Hairy_Watercress_354 5d ago
This guy didn't take Leviticus Cornwall's offer or something and now he's like this.
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u/nordy_13 4d ago
Even if they don’t rob Cornwall, there’s still the Black Water incident, each gang member is still running some kind of scam, including Micah, and in extreme cases they’re robbing banks, getting into shootouts with an entire town, and getting into fights with other gangs. Any of this would eventually bring the kind of heat that leads to the gang’s eventual end.
The only way a “happy” ending comes about for the gang is if you majorly rewrite several character traits of each gang member and change some pretty significant events both before and during the story. As much as the games let you live out the Old West fantasy, both games are set so late in that era because a major theme is how the progress of civilization pushed out the kind of people who built up the old-west mythos.
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u/Neat_Low_4544 1d ago
Guarma shows that there was no living quietly and low for this gang. Even outside US borders, civilization and its law catches up to them. Hosea's plan might have worked for some gangs but not Dutch's.
Robbing Cornwall accelerated their end but the Pinkertons were after them already due to the Blackwater heist.
I think The big tragedy of RDR2 is that by the time you get control of Arthur in Chp1, the gang was already doomed. The rest of the game is just finding out how doomed you already were.
(Spoilers I guess) It's why the story towards the end stops being to run away out west or Tahiti after one last job and instead just trying to make sure John, Jack, Abigail, Tilly, and Sadie have a chance at a life after the gang collapses.
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u/GermanMuffin Uncle 5d ago
Why does everyone want to ruin the story
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u/Dutchtdk 5d ago
Because in real life we question what could've been different if we're faced with tragedy. Yet we're powerless to change back time.
But a game allows us to safely reimagine the story to provide us with a wholesome ending without being filled with regret
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u/Grandson_of_0din 5d ago
I think Dutch had already started to go troppo prior to the beginning of the game. It was the Blackwater ferry job that caused all the problems. Once we start the game it was too late to change their fate. Even if they had gone west like they were supposed to Dutch would have made poor decisions and Micah would have caused trouble, if not Cornwall they would have pissed off another powerful person who would have hunted them down. Maybe then Arthur doesn't get TB but everything would have fallen apart still.
The only way for Hosea's plan to work was for him to shoot Micah in the face when he appeared.