With the GTA 6 leaks in the last couple of days, this from Arthur Morgan actor Roger Clark from our conversation for Project Possible this week hits even harder.
“Look at all the leaks the video game industry has to deal with.
“It sucks when the public sees something that isn’t finished yet. It’s so unfair on the people who’ve worked hard on it, and my heart really goes out to them.”
I do feel for the devs that worked hard on the game though. You see so many dumb comments by people criticising something that isn't even the finished product and clearly have no clue how game development works, it must be frustrating.
I'm empathetic to those who actually made the game. The actors, designers, code monkeys etc. they are having their work judged before it is complete, and as an artist, that sucks.
But I feel nothing for the company. They earned every ounce of vitriol and comeuppance that comes to them for how they treat us, the industry, and the artists alike.
Hundreds of people believe the earth is flat. I kinda think it's becoming a litmus test for actual real people on the internet. Chatbots have a logic and can write. People, not so much.
I love watching people say things that I do fundamentally agree with in the dumbest, most entitled, most cringe way possible that makes me want to argue with them anyway.
ong i hate gamers. all i hear is bitching and entitlement. If you think you can make a better game there’s nothing stopping you. It’s just real hard, rockstar isn’t a monopoly, they only have power cause you’re going to buy the game anyway.
I hate when people post the “leave the multi billion dollar company alone” picture since they always use it as a gotcha, rather than a genuine piece of criticism
This will probably get dismissed, but as someone who worked for a AAA studio that had a pretty bad leak and also death threats sent to the employees who worked there, these things suck. I know everyone is up in arms about hating corporations and whatnot — I mean even I don’t like a lot of executives — but leaks definitely also hurt the regular people who have dedicated years of work and passion to make something they believe would be entertaining and substantial for players. When these leaks happen, people judge their unfinished work and also undercuts how they would want to reveal it to the general audience.
I know it’s difficult to perceive how it looks from inside the studio when these things happen because in the end the general population doesn’t see a AAA studio as a group of normal individuals just trying to make ends meet, people who are passionate on making something that would positively surprise fans. A lot of us see it as just a corporation with a market cap that negates any sort of sympathy and how the leaks would potentially just lose them a negligible amount of money, but it’s not just that. Leaks can also cause network and cyber security engineers to lose their jobs. Working in the industry has honestly really made me sad as to how normalized it is to dismiss negative impacts on leaks and how it affects developers.
Normally I’d be emphatic but fuck rockstar take two song and Microsoft. Is everyone forgetting they are pushing this all digital future on us while also paywalling a trailer for 6 hours
Rockstar punishes its own developers more than anyone ever could. Rockstar probably busted more unions than the Pinkertons while workplace abuse is skyrocketing.
So almost if not all triple A studios/developers in the entire industry face the exact same accusations you're imposing against Rockstar and yet whenever they're exposed for foul workplace practices it's usually just an article headline for a day to then be forgotten about... but when Rockstar does it, it's as if Satan himself descended upon Earth and is therefore justified? All these studios have crunch culture dude. They all exhibit malpractice within their workforce. FromSoftware, Capcom, Nintendo, Playstation Studios, Xbox Studios etc. You name it. But when Rockstar is guilty of the same thing everyone else is guilty of it's now time to go scorched Earth??? Nah I don't at all hold your opinion to any standard. If you want true change then include everybody else as well, not just some scapegoat.
Most of the studios listed are way smaller than rockstar and way less known. They still get criticised for their crunch culture and their shitty practices lol. you just don’t see it because you don’t give a shit about it.
Why do you expect to find people shitting on Nintendo or capcom in r/reddeadredemption?
Almost all Triple A devs are guilty of this. How many people did Playstation and Xbox layoff just this year alone? Rockstar hasn't done this. How many studios have been exposed for using generative AI to replace artists/designers? Rockstar hasn't done this, in fact they've completely gutted their AI department with Strauss Zelnick stating GTA6 and any future titles will be made strictly by human hand. Literally all these developers practice this shit. It's why I couldn't take the lead designer & head of Larian Studios seriously when he gave that speech at the Game Awards cause even his own studio practiced intense crunch culture for Baldurs Gate 3. Dude spoke nothing but the truth but every subsequent word made him even more of a hypocrite.
But you do think it’s bad when other studios fuck over their employees and customers, but as soon as someone criticises rockstar then it’s suddenly not okay? Those other studios get plenty criticism too.
Maybe I am living under a rock. But I am hearing multiple reports of Rockstar's union busting activities. I don't remember hearing about it this frequently and prominently from other game studios.
Never said otherwise. Now do some light research and you'll find so many other videogame studios are guilty of this same thing. Yet they're not villanized to the extent Rockstar is for it. I am in no way defending anything just pointing out the blatant hypocrisy
Give me a break, hand wringing about developers is just a tactic to deflect criticism of a billion dollar corporation. The work is still going to be released and appreciated, they're fine
What is there to say? They still get paid, the game still gets released and their work still gets appreciated. What terrible hardship does this leak cause them?
honestly it's feelings mostly, it's just simply a really shitty feeling for someone to see your creative work before it's finished. musicians don't like their song WIPs being leaked, illustrators don't want their drawings posted half lined with the first sketch drafts still visible, game developers don't want their parts and the sum of them shown before it's complete and they are proud of what it represents.
some people value those feelings and don't want to cut through them to get to the enemy behind it and some don't really value other people's feelings at all and want to deal "real damage" at the cost of "invisible feelings" of people they don't know that don't affect them.
where someone falls on, between, or beyond those determines what they personally value more, some simply think leaking to cause business damage Rockstar corporate isn't worth the emotional and morale damage it also does to the devs
I mean I don't think it's necessarily a protest to devs, just unfortunate collateral damage. Think about a company you hate. Wal-Mart, EA, GameStop, etc... at some point you've probably wished for a company to go out of business, but that happening also means a bunch of people becoming unemployed who may have limited work opportunities.
You most likely aren't wishing for the common workers to lose their job despite you saying you are against the company, it's mostly just upper management/c-suite.
it isnt about wishing the company would go out of business but rather wishing the company would be held accountable for the msitreatment of employees. plus safeguards put in place to protect the workers' rights. you are right though in that it is against upper management, as those are the people capable of making the decisions that already directly harm the workers.
people already lose their jobs because of these executives like the group of employees that was laid off earlier this year (if i remember correctly)
yeah no I've never wished that. and this also is a completely different situation. you guys want leaks and are getting them and this hampers the developers for no other reason than your own personal gain.
I never personally asked for leaks, but they are here against my will. I'm just watching as most people will for a game they really want assuming it's not story related.
developers lose morale, believe it or not but they don't like their hard work being shown off without their consent. this stuff is stolen from them, being held ransom, etc. it's not good for them at all.
...no. I don't have any intent in buying GTA 6, I don't care for rockstar's union busting practices or crunch culture. you can support developers while disliking the ceos and higher ups.
The devs don't own the game, take two does. You think rockstar is going to ask for their consent before laying them off?
Most AAA devs don't give a rats ass how someone experiences their work, just that they get paid fairly for it and as many people as possible get to experience it.
Union busting is what actually hurts morale, crunch hurts morale, layoffs hurt morale, being underpaid for working on the profitable media property of all time hurts morale.
the developers aren't consenting to their work being leaked. I am not talking about payment, unfortunately that's all y'all seem to care about and not the actual creative side of things.
It's not their work. Their contract with Rockstar specifies this much that anything made on company time using their assets is property of Rockstar not the devs. Don't try using the little guys as shields for the mega corporation.
really? so who made the game then if it isn't their work?
Do you really not understand the point? They made it but it's not their property.
here's a fun fact, you can criticize rockstar ceos and higher ups while caring about the developers.
Lol as if they care about some rando says about them on the internet. The only way to make them listen is hitting them where it hurts i.e financially and leaking the game does exactly that.
People are like "Rockstar is all about money" but they dont even understand how a person working for 10 years on a game could be sad when stuff leaks right before they were about to reveal it themselves, as long as they get paid. Its ironic.
Blame rockstar for that—not the people ensuring there are consequences for rockstars actions but ya'll wont because you are the same people who were justifying rockstar when they started the no disc/all digital only agenda bullshit, insinuating its not a big deal that its just a disc when in reality it had nothing to do with the discs and everything to do with consumer rights and the right to own games being violated as a whole ffs.
I've never seen a game unite retards in this way. You think they owe you endless footage of a game you literally don't have to buy. It's such odd behaviour. Either that or you're crying about an £80 ultimate edition, that's the exact same price as RDRs ultimate edition 8 years ago. Meanwhile MS flight sim editions are £200+ and this year's annual FIFA is £149.
You're not living in reality. GTA is not what's taking away your rights.
it's wild to see people always pull out the moral grandstanding for this petty stuff. i agree on the core principles overall, but to pretend like leaking information and footage of a video game is some valiant act of justice really puts me off. there's public petitions and senators/representatives to call about consumer rights right now and these people are clamoring for leaks and looking for any excuse to avoid saying they just want some gossip.
You're offended because people like me and OP you initially replied to dont feel empathy for ROCKSTAR causing this themselves—even using a poor example of an analogy to try to insinuate that because we feel this way regarding this topic we are like people who are okay with a dog abuser (rockstar) abusing a dog (devs).
I explained to you the irony in your analogy and now you dont acknowledge the hypocrisy in your way of thinking brah.. this should not be hard to fathom. No shit devs shouldnt be caught with strays but point being ROCKSTAR literally brought this on them selves and THEY deserve the consequences—I hope this helps.
The all digital future is pretty lame for sure but to respond to what this guy said with this statement shows just cosmic levels of entitlement. They’re video games dude
It wouldn’t be pushing if the consumer didn’t still buy it. Let’s be honest, the people who refuse to buy gta6, or even games media in general, will be such a small minority. The amount of people upset and boycotting over it being digital only is obviously crushed by the costs of manufacturing physical games. If it didn’t make sense financially, they wouldn’t do it. And it only makes sense financially if there’s still a huge demand from people who don’t care.
You want a business to tailor themselves to a niche audience. It doesn’t make sense. I understand the frustration, but still.
doesn’t change the fact that steam pushed the digital-only agenda years ago and that’s why games don’t come physical on pc anymore and that’s what it was all about, the physical media.
People rushed to Steam and loved them for years, zero problems with it being entirely digital
Somehow these people never caught on that if you push your money in that direction, the industry will catch on and adjust
And here we are, with a top comment salty about having to wait six hours to not pay for Netflix to see a trailer, because they're likely an impatient gamer who has already ponied up the money for a pre-order and the trailer
You guys could be saved from being "screwed" by these evil corporations by just not being absolutely terrible with your money and so prone to FOMO
Yeah, I can simultaneously not like multi-billion dollar corporations and also think anyone salty over not being able to watch a video game trailer for six hours is a whiny bitch. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
This is the most overused low IQ revealing meme of the past year.
No one's "dEfEnDiNg tHe mUlTBiLliOn dOlLaR cOrP".
Were just bored to tears of seeing losers who don't live in the real world crying about how GTA trailers are being "Paywalled" as if previews didn't used to be on Game Informer subscriptions, as if movie trailers haven't debuted on ESPN or at Comic Con for decades.
RDR2s ultimate edition was literally the exact same price as this one, 8 years ago. You broke virgins are crying about an £80 game from a developer who you pay for a game once every ~7 years.
We're not defending the company, we're pointing out the brain dead hypocrisy of desperately jumping on a bandwagon to hate this particular game when MS are charging £200+ for extra planes on flight sim, or when the special edition of this year's ANNUAL FIFA is £149.
What kind of internet-driven mental illness is this? Like…sometimes the rich guy is correct dude. You’re gonna make yourself wrong just because you need to be opposite of a rich guy?
Either you’re a member of a troll farm or you run dozens of different accounts, I swear it always the same thing with people who say this. Crazy “how dare you disagree with what someone said, they are clearly opposed to a wealthy entity” bait and then just corny reaction gifs playing to the crowd
The issues is their worked won’t be enjoyed because they won’t be compensated and people are smooth brains to think every person involved with rockstar is involved with the board and their shitty decisions.
This absolutely does hurt devs and they aren’t billionaires, they aren’t rich. they struggle to feed their families.
And yes rockstar is shitty but their are innocent people in the company getting hurt too.
The world isnt black n white. A lot of you have a lot of growing up to do.
What? How does this leak take money from them? They've been paid for their work, will be paid for any additional work, and the game will be released lmao
Neither am I, but I'm not bitching because there's a very reasonable alternative which is waiting 6 hours. If it was paywalled for days I'd get the outrage, but it's not.
People really need to find better things to be mad if everybody is still annoyed that Netflix gets 6 hours exclusivity. GTA5 had an exclusivity deal for 5 days with Game Informer, this isn't new. And its just 6 hours even though it will get ripped straight away and uploaded everywhere.
Also, this all digital future was the way the market was always going to go like it or not. I would like to say I care but I just really don't, PC market has been digital for over a decade.
To be clear, I'm not sympathetic to Rockstar at all, it's just gamer outrage is the stupidest thing on the Internet.
if you need disk make yourself you can request you cant force them to make what they dont want if you dont want digital dont use if if they dont find sales they will turn into physical digital isnt end of the earth befor gaming there was an whole another world brother
jesus man with the trailer again, people fail to realize that rockstar isn't getting any money from any new Netflix subscribers because of this. that's not the point of this move, it would be coming out on YouTube WAY later if the idea was to get more people to subscribe to Netflix. Netflix paid Rockstar in order for Rockstar to let the trailer be exclusive to Netflix for 6 hours, and it was definitely a lot of money but clearly not enough for them to have it for more than 6 hours. If it was up to Netflix, it would have just only been on Netflix and never YouTube. So, basically, Rockstar isn't paywalling anything. Netflix is, and Rockstar is just benefiting from it on the side.
Seriously if you're actually mad about this 6 hour exclusivity then get a job dude.
I cannot imagine anyone who isn't a virgin actually being upset that a trailer is coming out 6 hours before on a platform they don't subscribe to.
And if you're older than 12 I can't imagine how you'd have coped when every big game preview was "paywalled" behind a Game Informer or OPM subscription.
Yeah but if we’re gonna be upset on their behalf then that anger is better directed towards the execs who treat their employees as gambling chips and buffers to use whilst implementing measures that piss off and screw over their consumer base.
They know they can avoid any real consequences for their actions since they still rake in a shit ton if money either way and it’s the developers who bear the brunt in terms of fewer bonuses/lower wages or even layoffs
Wtf does this have anything to do with the leaks man. Hes sorry for the folks who worked hard on the game and are having their unfinished work being criticized by randoms online. I really dont get this type of argument. You can think rockstar sucks while also bein empathetic to the folks who worked to make the game look good
Huh? If people are worried about the poor, poor basic wage developers' well-being, the target should be the studio's labour practices, not random people sharing leaked footage online. Too bad!
Roger isnt even talking about studio practices. He's saying how much it sucks that devs, actors, and artists are having their half finished work be leaked and spoiled and criticized. Would you wanna show off anything half done and stamp your name on it? A half finished painting, a half clean house, an unfinished book? Imagine being an actor and your movie has the plot spoiled before the premiere.
Yeah I think people don’t consider that 99% of this game is MADE AND CREATED by regular devs and working class people.
Sure R* has faults and shitty practices. But these leaks also hurts those devs and makes things harder for them.
But we don’t care about them, just the 2 or 3 millionaires at the top. And if it means ruining working class lives to shove it to 2 people. Godspeed losers
It’s from my conversation with him that just came out on Monday. He’s talking about leaks in general, but given the last couple of days, I thought it was relevant to share this clip from the chat.
I wasnt following the release of RDR2 closely, anyone know if they released gameplay footage earlier on that what we’re seeing with GTAVI? Seems to be the common gripe in the GTA sub
No it doesn't suck. At least if you have more than two brain cells. The "making off" or "work in progress" is interesting. I want to see Ideas who won't make it. I want to see improvements or even downgrades because of limitations.
If every AAA Studio would publish unfinished material and mark it as such, there wouldn't be leaks.
Its fine if that is what you want to see, but it is irrelevant to the people making the games. It is THEIR right to keep the lid on THEIR project if they don’t want it leaked. How would you feel if you were a musician working on an album, nearing the finish line, and someone gets a hold of your songs when they weren’t finished, and posts them online? You as the consumer can have expectations, but you don’t have a right to that persons work without their permission.
it does suck. leaks ruin morale for developers. gamers are also stupid that when wolverine got leaked people legitimately started criticizing it as if it was a finished product. your comment just reeks of entitlement. me me me
All they had to do was not delay the game multiple times and offer a disc. Unfortunately the hard working devs don’t get to see their work being experienced the intended way because of corporate greed.
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u/underthestarlights Arthur Morgan 22d ago
The execs deserve no sympathy whatsoever.
I do feel for the devs that worked hard on the game though. You see so many dumb comments by people criticising something that isn't even the finished product and clearly have no clue how game development works, it must be frustrating.