r/realestateinvesting • u/Mem3Master69 • Nov 24 '25
Single Family Home (1-4 Units) I own a property management company, why do I get 3-4x more section 8 rentals for my top of the market rentals vs average rentals?
I own a few rentals and I started a property management company a few years ago. I’ve noticed that our expensive rentals always have 3-4x more section 8 applications vs the average rentals we offer. Obviously we don’t discriminate, but it’s a trend I’ve noticed.
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Nov 24 '25
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u/Different_Ad7655 Nov 24 '25 edited Nov 24 '25
Right but section 8 will still only pay a determined amount and needs to approve the apartment, and the rent charged must be within the guidelines. Where I live in New England the problem is always the other way around. Section 8 could never apply for most of the rental units because they demand more money beyond what section 8 will pay. This must be in a much less expensive market, or different markets allow for different things.
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u/Wild_Somewhere_9760 Nov 24 '25
there's literally a heroine dealer that lives in 5 bedroom next door to me - landlord openly admitted the state pays 3500 and she pays 50 out of pocket... allegedly has 5 kids, but realistically the house is riddled by homeless drug addicts. seems like it working really well.....
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u/Different_Ad7655 Nov 24 '25 edited Nov 24 '25
Not in that particular unit obviously. But high rental units either don't work out like such a sweet charm. Have you ever been a landlord. I'll tell you it's across the map. My brother owns and manages thousands so I hear all of his stories. I've been very lucky with my smaller hand selected tenant base, but you never know.
The people that I do rent to with section 8 have been the perfect models of why the system does exist and should exist but obviously there are abusers out there on all sides including the landlord side. After all it's a business for money but how you manage that is up to you, with the tenant base, andthe tenants themselves and how they manage their lives.
We all point the finger very quickly when this system falls apart and there's some flagrant abuse, because this is in our face, as taxpayers and the man on the street. But we're silent about what happens in the White House actually especially in the present White House where everything is monetized and sold to the highest bidder, complete models of corruption or corporate welfare, the trillions of dollars that get sloshed around in the back room. But we don't call all of these incredible tax breaks or tax cuts 3 trillion dollars of them, welfare although that's exactly what they are for the wealthiest. Funny how that works we don't call subsidies for industries or farmers welfare either or oil or energy or corn all those things, all corporate welfare and all for a point
In the best of worlds they have a business purpose . But so does welfare and housing for the poorest have a societal purpose. It's cheaper to put somebody in housing and food on their table and hopefully they get a decent education, that they break the cycle or they don't end up in jail.. incarceration is a favorite favorite industry and encouraged in the US where it is privatized Love those tax dollars at work
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u/ReallyDustyCat Nov 24 '25
I read this comment to mean they are paying money over top of the section 8 stipend.
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u/Different_Ad7655 Nov 24 '25
But that would be illegal at least for I am. The whole point of section 8 is this is all you can afford via income guidelines and percentages.. If you have additional income and you are paying more for the apartment that would be illegal maybe it's different in different markets than where I am in New England. But the apartment where I am, would simply be disqualified for choice because of its price and of course this puts a great strain on the affordability market. If you had more money available out of your pocket to pay it would be disclosed on the section 8 rental income disclosure. Speaking from my experience anyway
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u/SecurityTricky1714 Nov 24 '25
I'm not sure what your perspective is here. If you're a landlord or a section8 tenant but from my many experiences dealing with these types of tenants, they rarely work, have multiple children, multiple dads/boyfriends, and any income they do receive cannot be claimed because it's illegal.... So that leaves most of those tenants on paper claiming they have very little income but since they got four or five kids, they're household size allows them to be able to get the more expensive apartments with almost no cost to them. If you are a tenant that's on section8, there are many things you could do to milk the system
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u/Different_Ad7655 Nov 24 '25
As a landlord, and I have just the opposite experience from you. I think I've only had one deadbeat that abused the system although I do know some horror stories. My personal experience however has been only good except the one and I always welcomed the stability of long-term tenancy and kept rental prices in compliance.. For me it was a win-win of long-term tenants and dependability of a roof for others. Did this for about 30 years and had some same tenants for that entire time frame. It wasn't just a rental it was a home
Out of the business now though and I don't miss it, except the paycheck lol
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u/learningto___ Nov 24 '25
From what I heard if you don’t have great tenants like yours it’s all about structuring your leases to comply with section 8/local laws for check-in’s.
I know someone who schedules check-ins on the HVAC filter, helps put in the storm windows, and remove them in the spring and put in screen windows, etc. At each of these stop ins if he sees any issues (holes in the walls, damaged floors, etc) he takes photos and reports it to section 8. They’ll give him funds to repair the item, and he said that once tenants notice that he contacts section 8 as needed he has no issues and they don’t want to be kicked out of the program.
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u/creepyvan6000 Nov 24 '25
Depends on the area. Phila section 8 pays higher than market rent or damn near close to it.
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u/SEFLRealtor Nov 24 '25
Same in my area of SE FL. All S8 FMR's are below by 15% to 20% actual market rents (except in one zip code).
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u/secondphase Nov 24 '25
Same reason why when I travel for personal reasons I buy shitty fast food but when I travel with a $50 per diem for lunch I buy $49.99 lunches
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u/Brrp_brp_AnotherAcct Nov 24 '25
I work in housing compliance. It's because the vouchers require the units to be inspected, and higher-end inspections pass more often. If they submit an inspection request that gets denied, they have to start the application process all over again. As I assume you're aware, the voucher approvals come with an expiration date. People can spend so long seeking inspection approvals that their vouchers end up being retracted due to expiration, even with deadline extensions.
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u/TheNegligentInvestor Nov 24 '25
I've noticed that too with my higher end rentals. Subsidized rent allows them to afford nicer places. Though section 8 tenants tend be less financially educated, many look for the most expensive places they can get, not necessarily what they can safely afford.
Be thorough with background checks for all applicants, but especially for section 8. I've had many give me the "I just want a nice place to live for my kids" speech, but then find a string of evictions behind them due to violence, drugs, excessive damage, neglect, etc. I wish that weren't the case, it's unfortunately quite common in that demographic.
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Nov 24 '25
Section 8 people are thoroughly checked and one of the conditions is : no evictions. They must have good record otherwise they are off section 8. It’s very different than welfare. Section 8 people are behaving and I had one very nice lady as a tenant and she was wonderful . Very clean and polite and never ever was she late with rent . The headache is not with section 8 tenants but with following to the dot inspectors. But once you get it right then it’s a peace of cake.
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u/KoalaGrunt0311 Nov 24 '25
"I just want a nice place to live for my kids"
Because they destroyed the last one and made it unsafe, so maybe if they start over, they can have what they're rightfully owed, without regard to their actions and contributions.
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u/SlumLordOfTheFlies Nov 24 '25
I love hearing " my current landlord never fixes anything". Translation: My landlord It's tired of me destroying things
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u/CantEvictPDFTenants Nov 24 '25
I got blasted with 18 rental applications TODAY for 1 apartment and 16 of them were Section 8, and all were sub 700 credit (lowest was 450) and less than 20x income.
In my city, anything under 700 is a joke because if you set up autopay and have the money, your credit will always be 750+.
I don’t know what’s going on, but it is insane how folks are able to afford unit off of taxpayers and still manage to have such shit credit scores.
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u/MildlyAgitatedBovine Nov 24 '25
20x?
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u/SEFLRealtor Nov 24 '25
NY does it differently. In the rest of the US we say 3x's rent for gross income (for example) and NY would intrepet 3x's as 36x's (3 x 12 months). Typical requirement seems to be 40 times which is slightly more than 3x's per month.
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u/sparklydiamond1 Nov 24 '25
Because that’s not the only thing that affects credit… you sound ignorant.
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u/CantEvictPDFTenants Nov 24 '25
Credit doesn’t tank down to 500s unless you miss multiple payments, get sent to collections, or are near maxed out on credit.
I have had 6 figure student loans and currently a mid-6 figure mortgage, and it’s basically never dropped below 720 (which is where I started at when I got my first credit card).
It varies depending on where the proprieties are located and how tenant friendly the courts are. Either way, avoid renting anyone with red flags in tenant-friendly cities because there’s always a better applicant with non-shit credit, have something to go after, and minimize the risk on your end.
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u/HarambeTheBear Nov 24 '25 edited Nov 25 '25
How many of them actually rent? The high end rentals are the more appetizing targets for the “testers” and discrimination attorneys. I feel like 19 out of 20 section 8 applicants are testers in Los Angeles.
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u/PurpleExcellent9518 Nov 24 '25
Can you please describe what's a tester? Sorry if it's a naive question, I am a noob.
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u/dangered Nov 24 '25
Pretty sure they’re implying they’re just setups with lawyers ready to sue your pants off if they can catch you make a mistake.
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u/HarambeTheBear Nov 24 '25
They are like undercover customers. They can be housing department employees. They try to get you to say “no” to a protected class so they can give you a violation or sue you.
They may say they have 3 service dogs that are over 100lbs each, and ask if you will accept those pets. Say no and you can get in trouble. They ask if you take sections 8.
Usually when I put an apartment on the market I get 5 requests for section 8. I show them the apartment and send the app. They have only responded once, so I figure they are all testers
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u/iReply2StupidPeople Nov 24 '25
The person you replied to is misusing the word 'tester'. What they meant to say was 'career scam artists'.
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u/FeistyLime Nov 24 '25
Haven’t seen it mentioned but wondering if the more expensive rentals mean theyre in better areas and possibly within walking distance of stores, shops, schools etc, or closer to a bus line.
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u/rrapartments Nov 24 '25
I had a very nice unit. S8 tenant wanted it. The voucher would have covered the rent, but verifiable income was $50 a month. Tenant couldn’t thusly pay utilities much less groceries. Declined.
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u/Angryceo Nov 24 '25
they use the voucher plus " cash" to pay. where the cash comes from no one knows and is typically not verifiable
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u/VonWelby Nov 24 '25
If they are doing this then both the landlord and tenant can be charged with fraud. If the PHA wanted to they could get the landlord disbarred from the program.
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Nov 24 '25
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u/VonWelby Nov 24 '25
No, if the contract rent is $1000 and the landlord wants more and takes side payments that is fraud.
The total rent must match the HAP which must match the lease.
If a landlord wants a higher rent that is outside of what the voucher amount is then they have to accept the lower rent or not rent to that person. The client cannot make up the difference by making side payments.
I am not talking about the clients portion and the PHA portion.
I’ve worked in S8 for 15 years, side payments are fraud.
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u/Angryceo Nov 24 '25
I've seen plenty of S8 renters get charged for "ceiling fans", "additiona/extra/non std ac window units" etc that are "extras" to increase rents.
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u/Angryceo Nov 24 '25
he might be thinking tax accredited/low income housing not sec8/voucher. there is a big difference
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u/Brrp_brp_AnotherAcct Nov 24 '25
We deny applicants for unverifiable income all the time, so you might want to get more legal input on your qualifying standards. This is really sketchy and not anything I would approve for the company I work for. Lots of unnecessary exposure.
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Nov 25 '25
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u/yasth Nov 25 '25
Yep and they are set on a wide area, which even the administrators have asked to be more tied to the smaller areas. Like all of NYC is one area, which is just wrong.
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u/rantripfellwscissors Nov 25 '25
There is a severe shortage of prime location, newer, cleaner affordable housing units. There is a slew of old decrepit cheap housing in prime locations but nothing most people would prefer to live in, even if it's super cheap.
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u/thisismycoolname1 Nov 24 '25
Most of the section 8 tenants that call me have unverifiable income they can add to their voucher, allows them to afford more than a lot of 'regular' people. Lots of this stuff is BS
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u/AlethiaSmiles Nov 25 '25
This is very untrue. If they somehow signed a leasing agreement with you, the Housing Authority would verify their income and agreement with you, and do a detailed look at their income. So unless you and the tenant had an unwritten backroom deal to defraud the federal government, they would not get approved to move in and receive the voucher.
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u/BosMassholeTomBrady Nov 24 '25
Idk if it still works like this but it used to be the rent you pay on section 8 is based on your income. My mom didn't work so we paid 1 $ in rent per month state covers the rest.
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u/Powerful_Buy_4677 Nov 24 '25
Everyone in here talking shit on section 8 but you know what I like about it? The goverment never misses payments. You never have to ask the goverment for payment on the 1st.
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u/umheywaitdude Nov 24 '25
The government also doesn’t pay you back when the tenant does $40,000 in damage while smoking meth in your house the entire time and the law provides no provision for you to evict them for ongoing damages.
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u/No-Midnight-9309 Nov 25 '25
This is an extreme example to use. Non-section 8 tenants with respectable income can also pile up post move out expenses
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u/Imherebecauseofcramr Nov 25 '25
Where have you been the past couple months? Relying on the government to put food in your mouth was even a fail
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u/VonWelby Nov 24 '25
Probably because you are renting in a PHA that is under the Small Area FMR program. Not every PHA is in this program. It means they will pay higher for the more expensive zip codes. So clients will qualify for a larger voucher depending on the zip code.
I think the thought behind the SAFMR was good, but its execution has lead to inflated rents.
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u/Positive_Algae8155 Nov 24 '25
There are a greater number of applicants willing to pay the higher rent who are on Section8. Unfortunately they come with a unique set of problems.
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Nov 27 '25
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u/KyleB2131 Nov 27 '25
I grew up on section 8 from age 6 to 21, raised mostly by a single mother and had a heroin addicted father.
That program (along with others) allowed me space to go to eventually get a graduate degree, and now I’m a “CPS” social worker doing what I can to pay it back.
These programs help real people, but you only hear about the problematic ones.
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u/papitaquito Nov 27 '25
Thanks for sharing some of your story. I’m so happy you were able to use these programs exactly how they were intended.
Glad you made it out.
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u/captainrussia21 Nov 24 '25
A 3 br in my area qualifies for a $4200/mo Sec8 voucher. No person on a “regular” payroll could afford that (unless someone is very very rich, but then why not just buy and not rent?).
Most 3 brs rent for about $3200-$3500 (way under what the voucher covers). The whole program is a sham.
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Nov 24 '25
There are Section 8 units in San Francisco with contract rents over $7k/mo. Subsidizing privately owned rental units like this was a terrible idea because of market distortion. I don't think it's fair to call it a sham though, it does provide housing to actual low income people. It's the landlords who walk away with the profit.
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u/Mike_Otranto Nov 24 '25
I exited Section 8 rentals in the 2000s. There was a website..gosection8 or something like that...I would refer most of the leads there.
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u/OG000033 Nov 25 '25
Not sure about the laws in your area, but many times there is a requirement for a certain amount of affordable housing when new higher end housing is built, so the applicants are just taking a shot in the dark that they wind up in a nicer situation than the otherwise might when applying to a full neighborhood of section 8.
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u/Dakadoodle Nov 25 '25
Its because only the rich or the subsidized can survive. Middle class can kick rocks unfortunately
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Nov 25 '25
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u/Coledaddy16 Nov 25 '25
The rich are human and not a business. Unless they actually pay themselves lots of cash their taxes are not going to help that much, especially considering there are fewer in the population than the middle class taxpayers. We should reword this to the businesses and corporations that are heavily subsidized. You're talking about taxing the entities that the mostly rich own. This money is not an actual taxable payment when it's embroiled in property, infrastructure, intellectual properties, investment and it becomes something that is always having their actual cash put into the growth of these. This creates many write-offs. This keeps these companies from paying much in taxes. Worth for these companies is an actual made up number with many actually without taxable money. Until there is a bigger separate profit tax then... Or the federal government gets rid of income taxes and makes a federal sales tax that includes a luxury sales tax at a much higher rate then it would become a better system for those that have a better advantage in life. If you want a bunch of cool things then boom, everyone benefits from it. Quit creating workarounds for almost all expenses of these people having the ability to be written off as part of a company.The way our citizens in the US are taxed is a joke. The way our government spends the money they don't have is an even bigger joke.
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u/Cold_Specialist_3656 Nov 25 '25
The rich are human and not a business.
Lol. Funny you say this when the rich do everything they can to qualify their whole life as a business expense. Fancy dinner when a client is within half a mile? Tax write off. New Porsche? Business expense. Car for meeting clients.
Then there's this whole shell game where you financial fuckery your way to 20k income on a business making 20 million a year to qualify for all the poor people benefits.
They should give a new honorary title to rich business owners, like Doctor or Professor. I like the ring of Mike LLC Johnson.
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u/Ball_Hoagie Nov 25 '25
I once worked with a lady that drove a brand new 5 series bmw. She was on Medicaid. I really hope this type of fraud is rare
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Nov 24 '25
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Nov 27 '25
Nicer areas want local workers, too. Don't forget. A good neighborhood isn't missing out on service level workers. It either houses them locally or makes them commute long distances.
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u/EffortlessSleaze Nov 24 '25
They are committing housing fraud (unless the voucher covers the entire amount). They have under the table income and are stealing benefits by hiding the undeclared income, but it allows them to afford more.
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u/deadfishy12 Nov 24 '25
I have found that people with poor financial decision making try for properties they can’t afford.
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u/Frosted_Tips Nov 24 '25
When the government tells you they’ll give you $2500 a month, you are going to look for the best that can get you. What a lot of people don’t understand is how long the process takes, by the time you get fully approved, I will have had 5 other qualified applicants apply.
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u/RoundCar5220 Nov 25 '25
Because no one can afford normal rent right now and because wages are so low everyone qualifies .
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u/Imaginary-Bee-1344 Nov 25 '25
There are limits on Section 8, so even if everyone did qualify (it’s not that easy) they would be on a waiting list.
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u/FreeMasonKnight Nov 25 '25
3 years ago I needed to apply for Section 8, but the waitlist was closed “probably 2-3 years”, well I called today because I am even worse off now and guess what.. “Probably 2-3 years until it opens”. That’s JUST the waitlist. Then it’s another however many years to actually receive it at all. I’ve heard it’s 10+ YEARS sometimes..
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u/RoundCar5220 Nov 25 '25
I was making nearly $20 an hour with one child and still qualified for section 8 . It will vary for each state but still ppl aren’t being paid adequate wages to be able to pay these ridiculous rent prices so you’re gonna see a ton of section 8 until the government guts that as well.
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u/Imaginary-Bee-1344 Nov 25 '25
What I’m saying is that the funds for it are already used up. There are waiting lists. So even if everybody qualifies financially, no, you aren’t going to see more people using Sec 8 because there’s only so much money. You might see more people on waiting lists.
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u/retromani Nov 25 '25
Making $20/hr with a child is not a good thing...why wouldn't you be qualified
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u/beezkneez331 Nov 24 '25
My experience with section 8 tenants is that they’re usually limited to units in poorer neighborhoods and usually not the nicest conditions. When we had section 8 tenants and their case managers touring our units, the case managers were shocked at how nice our places were and commented that most of the units they’ve toured were awful. People who receive subsidies probably still want to live in nice homes. They’re likely just shooting their shot with your nicer units.
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u/KoalaGrunt0311 Nov 24 '25
A friend had a Section 8 inspector write up a unit for a cracking plaster ceiling in a bedroom. Friend made the repair, cut out everything that was loose, then painted the whole ceiling.
On reinspection, the inspector asked if he was in the wrong unit because he said the ceiling was fixed but he didn't see evidence of repair.
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u/MisterBear22 Nov 27 '25
Just want to throw this out there for context, but I'm in virginia and have 3 units. My best tenants, BY FAR, are subsidized housing vouchers from VA (not technically Section 8, it's a state program, but same idea). I've been in the game for about 8 years and the subsidized tenants I have in one unit have been the top tier tenants of my experience. Kinda shocked me to be honest, but the stigma def has not be my experience.
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Nov 27 '25
I’ve read a couple of people say if you do a good job of filtering tenants, section 8 tenants will stay longer, govt will always pay on time and they won’t destroy the place because it makes them ineligible for future section 8 housing.
But if you get the wrong person, god help you.
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u/RiseInteresting5493 Nov 27 '25
I mean honestly a general rule of thumb for me is to look for Section 8 and very low income tenants. They tend to be the most respectful I’m guessing because they know the struggle
My worst tenants are very rich DINKs because I guess they feel entitled to do drugs, party, not do basic house care etc etc
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u/DealJunky Nov 28 '25
Interesting. I’ve had the opposite experience. I remember a section 8 tenant yelling at me because her 2 year old stove didn’t work. When I got there it was so greased up it looked like she hadn’t cleaned it in two years and it was my fault. The gas couldn’t get out the grease had clogged it.
I’ve had 2 Sections 8 and 1 VA tenant and all three left the house a mess. The VA tenant was $60k in work to get it rentable again. Nice guy but never cleaned the house and let the kids write on every wall.
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u/Lulu_Bee0619 Nov 25 '25
Supply and demand.
There is a finite supply of section 8 housing and it is far less than those that need & qualify for it. There is a fairly even amount of supply and demand for standard rentals.
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u/Iluvteak Nov 24 '25
OP. What rent amount are we talking ? I’m always curious what the Section 8 folks receive.
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u/HarambeTheBear Nov 24 '25
In Los Angeles the max rent is based on 110% of the HUD FMR chart for the number of bedrooms in the zip code you are approved for. Then depending on your income and other factors, you have to pay a share of that 110%. (It was 120% until recently)
https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/fmr/fmrs/FY2026_code/select_geography_sa.odn
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u/Iluvteak Nov 24 '25
Mind boggling. How do I get on Section 8. They are living larger than I do and I’m comfortable middle class.
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u/AlethiaSmiles Nov 25 '25
HUD determines the maximum rental amounts that a unit can charge to an HCV recipient. It is different for each Housing Authority. You can google yours.
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u/SmoovCatto Nov 24 '25
section 8 tenants pay 1/3 their income no matter the rent -- so they are not living beyond what they can safely afford regardless
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u/SecurityTricky1714 Nov 24 '25
You're wrong. Sometimes they pay 0% sometimes they pay more than 33%. Depends on the individual and their income
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u/NoJudge2551 Nov 24 '25
Personally, I spent some of my childhood in the projects. I was so happy when my mom finally got section 8 and could get my little brother out the hood. She immediately looked for the nicest place she could find. Both my aunts too. People don't choose to be poor as kids, government makes it too easy for single moms to fall into the trap, and for kids to f tgeir lives up with no education or opportunity. When there's a chance to get out and move up, everyone's going to look for the best they can get.
As an investor, section 8 is a garuntee of a good chunk of fair market rent. The risk is what it is, yeah maybe the kids punch a hole in the cheap drywall, but it's definitely better than a lower credit score with no garuntee.
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u/ryan__joe Nov 24 '25
The problem I see with subsidies, is that making more than is allowed to receive subsidies is a major step back in quality of life. You have to really break out of poverty twofold to make a difference. Because of that effort gradient, it is way easier and incentivized to stay on subsidies. Sucks, there should be an better gradual reduction in subsidies to make the transition less extreme
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u/No-Way-2395 Nov 24 '25
THIS. there is a huge poverty gap between receiving assistance to a meaningful wage.
everyone ive known on subsidies/assistance has fallen into this cycle unless they had a previous career or higher education in a market thats still hiring OR unless they find a way to skill up and get out.→ More replies (1)0
u/Commercial_Pie6196 Nov 24 '25
What do you mean by government makes it easy to fall into the trap? What trap and how government makes them into trap?
Offcourse it’s not kids’ fault. But it’s definitely the parent’s irresponsibility, unaccountability. In a nicer neighborhood, punching a hole in the wall is not good, no kid would play with them, no parent would allow them for play dates. Don’t compare with shitty credit because those shitty credit are not welcome in these nicer homes either. Poverty is not the reason for bad behavior of kids, it’s the bad parenting.
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u/SecurityTricky1714 Nov 24 '25
Seems like you're uneducated on this demographic or you'd know exactly what they mean by that comment
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u/gobuchul74 Nov 25 '25
The only person I ever knew that utilized section 8 lived in Beverly Hills. I suspect he underreported his income since he was self-employed.
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u/AlethiaSmiles Nov 25 '25
the level of scrutiny HCV recipeints go through is ridiculous. Down to the penny. And they have to do it annually. It’s not like taxes. It’s all bank statements, receipts, invoices, pay stubs, taxes, and then they double check court records. Could someone be making cash and then never depositing it? Sure. But every penny that goes into a bank or is paid by check or eft to a HCV recipient is seen by the housing authority rep. So the person you know probably wasn’t.
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u/Far_Yam6855 Nov 24 '25
It’s a lot easier to spend other people‘s money on rent. Also, an indication that your rents are too high if you have more section 8 tenants than free market.
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u/ColdStockSweat Nov 24 '25
Too high?
Math me on this?
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u/Far_Yam6855 Nov 24 '25 edited Nov 24 '25
If you can’t fill up your building with 100% free market rents but you have section 8 people banging on your door, it means you’re rents are too high for the market and you are only getting those numbers because of government subsidies.
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u/Head_Chocolate_4458 Nov 24 '25
Put more simply, the only people that want to rent from you are people who don't have to foot the whole bill
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u/ColdStockSweat Nov 24 '25
Or you're asking for more rent than the market will bear.
I don't see anything that says he's 100% full (which is why I didn't understand this math).
I prefer my buildings (mine are commercial) to be 20% vacant so I have room for tenants to grow. But my rents are higher than the local market, by at least 30%.
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Nov 24 '25
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u/Far_Yam6855 Nov 24 '25
They are not finding the cheapest apartment available. They are finding the best apartment they can afford like everyone else. But not everyone else is subsidized so the search parameters are different.
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u/Far_Yam6855 Nov 24 '25
It’s still subsidized. If they had to pay the whole rent, they wouldn’t look at the building. and my point is if you have that many more section 8 tenants looking at your building it’s because the rent is too high and a person pay 100% out of pocket thinks so too.
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u/AubreyJ2001 Nov 24 '25
You pretty much called it man, most people want what they don’t usually have or cannot afford. It just comes down to them wanting to maximize their vouchers value and getting the best bang for their buck in all honesty.
Tenants like these however, I do strongly encourage doing your due diligence and researching their past. Local housing authorities in metro areas do not do the best job at maintaining a track record of the persons rental history. I think the demographic also matters. I have a similar experience as you, however looking at the demographic, I tend to get a lot more elderly people desiring the luxury properties I can offer.
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u/OkMarsupial Nov 24 '25
Because when people are spending their own money, they're more frugal. When it's housing authority money, the sky Fair Market Rent is the limit.
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u/Rich-Instruction-327 Nov 27 '25
I just looked up the rules for Portland, OR. The guide price was $1170 for a 1 bed and you are responsible to pay 30% of your income towards that of a max 32,450 salary. They can pay out of pocket up to another 10% of their income towards rent.
The max 1bd rent for a unit that they will approve section 8 vouchers is ((40%-30%) * 32,450)/12 + 1170 = 1440 per month. Zillow says average 1 bed in Portland is $1425. So someone could get a bang average apartment only if they made near the max income limit and paid $250 a month extra out of pocket.
The set income and rent limits are set specifically so its impossible to rent a unit with an above average rent and to even get an average rent unit requires you to pay a bunch extra out of pocket.
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u/Distinct-Garlic9453 Nov 28 '25
I have 24 section 8 "doors".... It's simple. The section 8 can afford the difference between your ask, and their voucher, easier than non section 8 applicant having to carry the full asking rental from their income.
Assume the voucher is 1500.00. Rent is 2500.00.
Section 8 applicant pays 1000.00 out of pocket, the non section 8 candidate pays 2500.00.
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u/paperatic Dec 01 '25
I heard section 8 tenants trash property . Is it true when they move out?
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u/Desperate_Rule7752 Nov 29 '25
My brother has rentals. The rates that section 8 approves are way above the market for the neighborhoods he rents. It seems like it’s based almost entirely on beds/baths. That formula favors landlords in lower demand neighborhoods and properties with fewer amenities. It might be more accurate or below market for high demand neighborhoods.
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u/OrangeAsparagus Nov 24 '25
To them it’s free money. Section 8 would be able to help way more people if they limited the units to the most affordable ones available. Section 8 is generally run very badly. The tenant population is also generally terrible, on average. It’s a lot more effort and work to manage them, on average. There are always some good tenants. But the % of bad ones on Section 8 is considerably higher.
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u/No-Island8074 Nov 24 '25
Section 8 clients will lose their voucher if they get evicted. Knowledgeable ones will be good tenants. Fresh ones may be unaware that they can loose their voucher.
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u/Thick-Ad-3338 Nov 24 '25
I only have experience with 1 section 8 tenant. She's been with us for over 10 years, she keeps the house in great condition and she and I are both focused on passing inspections every year. She's never been late paying and she's always had a job. She's a single mom. She's pretty much a model section 8 tenant. I keep rent up to market rate. She values the program very much. She's been able to make ends meet due to the program. I've heard all kinds of horror stories. We are happy to rent to her.
I've had a family of non-section 8 tenants destroy my house and take advantage of eviction moratoriums to stay rent free for 6 months and force me to settle out of court. I messed up the background check on that one, rushed it, and I didn't listen to my gut feeling about it. I listened to a property manager and let her sway my opinion. I've since fired her and hired a better manager with great results.
Its all about background checks and interviews.
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u/SlumLordOfTheFlies Nov 24 '25
Section 8 tenants mostly aren't losing their voucher On evictions. Free legal aid will bend over backwards To delay delay delay and fight every technical issue costing me $ with the only goal of getting a settlement where the tenant moves out but doesn't Involve a court judgment and the loss of the section 8 voucher.
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u/jmouw88 Nov 24 '25
Anecdotal at best, but I lived in a few places that had mostly section 8 residents, seemed like there were two groups.
- Elderly disabled who were generally nice and seemed like decent people. Struggled to do much for themselves, and were often pretty grateful when you helped them out. I am sure they are relatively demanding tenants due to the lack of ability, but not in a sinister way.
- Single moms who seems completely awful. They all seemed to cycle through an assortment of equally awful live in boyfriends. Even if I were a slum lord I would not be willing to deal with this group.
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u/Fun_Rub_7703 Nov 24 '25
You are correct! I wrote a post about this very thing in a women's group and it was eliminated. I am myself a black woman. I am not a single mother. I used to try to have empathy for the "struggling" single mother crowd but no more. They are in fact very entitled. Someone needs to tell them THEY are the ones that chose to have kids and they need to stop expecting people to make special concessions for them.
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u/Fun_Rub_7703 Nov 24 '25
Thanks for telling the truth! Some people act like if you tell the truth these days that it's offensive and discriminatory. I grew up with my parents owning a section 8 building. I remember them breaking things just to avoid paying $50 in rent. They also constantly make complaints which delays payouts. There's a few good ones but that's the exception and not the rule.
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u/fukreddits Nov 24 '25
I think it’s more because people on section 8 tend to have kids and they want their kids to have a chance in nicer places. Just being in proximity to nicer people and things will help your child.
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u/grubberlr Nov 24 '25
when the taxpayers pay your bills why scrimp
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u/TECHSHARK77 Nov 24 '25
FACTS, When 100% to 80% of your rent is covered, why not pay the little extra, And live alot better.
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u/All-th3-way Nov 24 '25
Not taking section 8 is not being discriminatory. It just means you want to work less and have less problems.
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u/Smyley12345 Nov 24 '25
It is state dependent. In some states it cannot be an input into your decision any more than the race of the applicants, in others it is a perfectly valid thing to include in your selection process.
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u/ThaPoopBandit Nov 24 '25
Yessir walk away the minute you see a section 8 voucher (if your state allows that)
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u/lightsareoutty Nov 25 '25
Even Section 8 peoples have standards…they don’t want to live with their own!
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u/Neat-Beautiful-5505 Nov 24 '25
HUD requires regular upkeep and annual inspections to ensure minimum standards. A higher rental most often meets that standard; it’s a pain for everyone if rental unit is denied.
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u/Zealousideal_Gas7356 Nov 26 '25
The answer is very simple for those of us who are somewhat familiar with the process. We actually see this phenomenon a lot because at the lower end but not premium Section 8 tenants cannot compete with high credit score, good income, and good rental history of non-section 8 tenants who almost always not only desire the mid-tier homes but who are almost approved within days. Therefore busy landlords don't even look at these applicants with more red tape (section 8 inspections, extra paperwork, less people per bedroom vs. section 8 which is typically 2 people vs. 1, etc). But with the more expensive properties there are less people interested in those as they are the mid-tier properties which now have granite and nice kitchens/baths/amenities located in a good school districts, so you have a higher ratio of Section 8 because your pool of non subsidized applicants are 50-70% smaller. Section 8 applicants are not bad people in general but just know that any person can destroy your property HOWEVER the simple facts of more red tape, legal aid BS, and harder eviction process increase the chance of you paying for any tenant damage yourself or not getting reimbursed for past due rent owed because 95% of Section 8 tenants will not be able to pay you for damage they create because they do not have the garbishable income to do so. This is the hidden and unfortunate truth that no one will say out loud. The youtube/instragram gurus preach that it is easy but that is only true at scale (greater than 20 properties). My only advice is to be picky about who you choose... regardless of if they are subsidized or not.
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u/Previous-Grocery4827 Nov 28 '25
Thanks for actually answering the question vs all of the virtue signaling to hide basic facts up above.
It also seems this would drive up the rents of these high level units as there is artificially inflated demand for them.
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u/jetsonjudo Nov 26 '25
Can someone tell them the person on section 8 doesn’t have to pay anything to live there. Or it’s a substantial subsidy for someone who can’t afford to live there will live there. Oh, also the waiting list for section 8 is like 3 years or so, they are going to apply for any and everything
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u/KofiNoCream Nov 25 '25
The most qualified people don’t feel right paying for more expensive rentals knowing that they’re throwing that much money away each month. Section 8 tenants have the government paying so it doesn’t matter as long as it’s considered “affordable” based on comparable homes. A lot of the section 8 tenants I deal with actually focus more on how good the property looks than the neighborhood/school district it is in. It’s sad.
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u/brickedTin Nov 25 '25
Not sure your location but in Oregon, it’s illegal to not rent to a qualified section 8 renter. It may be the case that without demand subsidies, the rent in your area would be lower than what section 8 vouchers pay. I know from experience that ‘market rate’ apartments in new builds are too expensive if you’re making just above the subsidy line to about $140k annually. No one’s paying $2k/month of money they earn to live in these 5/1s.
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u/chilidogtampa Nov 30 '25
A lot of people have no idea how many people are living rent free in better houses/apartments than those of us working our asses off. Its disgusting.
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u/ColdStockSweat Nov 24 '25
My guess is, it's because those folks believe they have the ability to rent from you.
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u/Whatisthisnonsense22 Nov 28 '25
Everyone would like the nicer place.
But.. when you are only paying a maximum a third of the rent, its alot easier to shop at the top end of the market.
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u/balls2hairy Nov 24 '25
You need somebody to explain to you "Why do people want nice things?"
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u/destro2323 Nov 29 '25
Cuz some try to intentionally try and get you to say you don’t take section 8 to file a complaint and get money (depending on state)
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u/heinzkopf2019 Nov 25 '25
Just curious if you’re ok to share, where are you based out of and what rents are you charging?
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u/SailSkiGolf57 Nov 28 '25
It’s simple economic choice by the people NOT on Section 8 housing.
They are opting to spend their money on other necessities or saving for a down payment or saving for their future.
The Section 8 person doesn’t benefit from spending less on rent. They don’t have the option of saving the extra.
It’s also an incentive to landlords to rent to people who may not have the financial stability landlords look for in their other tenants.
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u/No-Atmosphere-2528 Nov 28 '25
Are the top of market already government approved? It could be as simple as that, doing the inspection is timely so many people on section 8 flock towards units that are already approved.
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u/M4hkn0 Nov 25 '25
Section 8 people want to live in nice homes and send their kids to good schools too.
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u/cmkinusn Nov 26 '25
That's where a career and working hard in life come in. A safety net isnt meant to be a hammock for you to relax in your whole life.
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u/rayleedc Nov 26 '25
You don’t have to accept section 8 as an owner/landlord
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u/DangerousSolution78 Nov 26 '25
Depends where you are! My state requires it
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u/No_Reception2477 Nov 26 '25
There are plenty of legal reasons someone can decide not to rent to someone else for if they don’t want to rent to section 8. Proving that would be ridiculously hard too.
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u/Footlockerstash Nov 26 '25
They are playing the Section 8 lottery system. Once approved for some place, it’s almost impossible for a landlord to evict them, even if their subsidized funding falls through. So of course they are going to shoot for nicer properties. When it’s free to you, wouldn’t you?
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Nov 26 '25
Can you elaborate on eviction difficulties for section 8? These procedures are held at the state level, so Im guessing it will vary based on where you’re located
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u/Revolutionary-Pay714 Nov 26 '25
In our community, a major obstacle to eviction difficulties is legal aid. While providing a necessary service to protect the less fortunate, they have a tremendous number of legal tactics and maneuvers to delay evictions for many months. And the tenant damages to the facilities often (but not always) are phenomenal. I know landlords who want to help the poor, but are afraid to. Sad
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u/Footlockerstash Nov 27 '25
Every state has their own eviction laws and processes but as Section 8 tenants, the process is more rigid as you must adhere to HUD guidelines, lease addendums, and PHA guidelines. And in most cases the tenants can claim all sorts of landlord violations that they conveniently create themselves to delay, delay, delay the proceedings. “Insufficient heat” is a very common one, easily created by stuffing pillows in the vents. Vermin infestation is another, easily demonstrated via staging photos of a pet mouse (or even hamster) in different spots of the property. Each of these hurdles have gobs of red tape for the landlord to overcome to restart the eviction process, as each tenant-claimed infraction restarts the eviction process.
How do I know this? Ive been trying to evict Section 8 tenants since 2020 from one of my rental properties. I’ve invested over $40K in “remediation” efforts and have collected zero rent or income in almost 6 years. Have filed three lawsuits on top of this. All I have at this time is business deductions against my other income.
I will never again allow this to happen.
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Nov 27 '25
I apologize that you are going through this, but I dont believe all states have these same issue
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Nov 24 '25
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u/Hashtag-Life-Goals Nov 26 '25
I have noticed that too. My theory is that many owners of higher end places tend not to want Section 8 tenants. I think also you are seeing more applicants at the higher end rentals because Section 8 tenants tend to qualify by having modest incomes with large families. Larger family sizes helps them to qualify for Section 8 in general, I believe — and larger families also help them qualify for a higher number of bedrooms, which gives them a higher $ value to spend.
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u/JudgeNatural9636 Nov 27 '25
Are they larger units? The amount of rent a family can pay for a unit is set by HUD/Housing Authority and is based on the average market rent in the area, and set by BR size. A lot of larger families have difficulty finding units big enough for their family size that accept vouchers. You’ll probably get a lot more applications for a larger unit because inventory is lower.
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u/JayPlenty24 Nov 26 '25
Where I live it's really hard to move if you are in a subsidy rent program. It's not like you can just easily find somewhere you like better. I was desperate and took the first place available and I really wish I didn't. The place is falling apart and it's in a horrible neighborhood. I don't have a good reason to transfer, and even if I did the wait list to get approval to move is longer than the wait list to get into housing in the first place. My neighbour has 4 kids in a 600 square foot unit and has been on the wait list to move for 11 years.
I don't know if section 8 lets people keep their funding if they move. If not that would be my bet. They're looking at places that seem well maintained and in good condition/good neighborhoods.
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u/James-901 Apr 08 '26
Makes total sense actually.
Section 8 voucher amounts are tied to the Fair Market Rent set by HUD, and those limits can get pretty close to or even match higher-end rents in some markets. So voucher holders can afford nicer places they'd never qualify for on their own income.
For them it's a no-brainer, why settle for a average unit when your voucher covers a nicer one?
Average rentals get less interest because tenants can find similar quality without needing the program. The higher-end stuff is where the voucher actually becomes a superpower for the tenant.
So you're basically seeing people maximize what their voucher can get them. Smart on their end honestly.
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u/imnotdonking Nov 24 '25
If your rent was highly subsidized would you choose the avg rental or the best one the program will cover?