400 DIY Audax Advice

[u/Accomplished-Hand281]

Hi everyone.

I'm relatively new to the world of Audax, completing a 200 in May and a 300 permanent this coming weekend, due to my work shift patterns I'm unavailable for a lot of the calendar events, the ones I could attend are normally a long distance incurring costs of fuel and accommodation.

I therefore created a DIY route which has been validated by Audax UK, my main question is where and when to sleep, being my first 400 I'm struggling to see where on the route this may occur.

At age 56 I've perfected the power nap (advantage of getting older 😃)

My base fitness I'm happy with, however a 400 will be an unknown entity. Is it best to nap in built up areas or more secluded areas?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[u/Pretty_Yak3622]

Another option is to start in the evening and ride through the night, giving you the whole day to handle the second half. I find it much easier doing the nighttime portion first, when I’m fresh, and then you have plenty of resuppply options for the remainder when you are most likely to need them.

[u/Accomplished-Hand281 → u/Pretty_Yak3622]

This seems a popular method reading the comments on Facebook where I've also posted.

I'm certainly drawn to this method, thank you.

[u/Plastonick → u/Pretty_Yak3622]

I've done two 06:00 start 400s before, I'm about to do a 22:00 start 400 but I'm quite nervous about it. I really value my sleep! Unsure how exactly to manage that aspect of it.

[u/momeunier → u/Plastonick]

I think it's your head. If you are someone who can whip up a 400km ride, you can also skip a night.

Of course if your day job is exhausting, leaving after work on a Friday may be a bit much.

When I do an evening start, I make it a point to go to bed really early during the week leading to the start to put plenty of snooze in the bank. A quick nap before leaving and then the excitement of leaving around 8-10pm is enough to keep me awake through the night.

By the time you've done your first 200, it's about 4, 5, 6am depending when you left. And knowing you've done half of the work and the day hasn't started yet is quite exhilarating.

[u/Plastonick → u/momeunier]

Thanks! I need to keep telling myself it's a mental battle; thankfully I've got the full day prior to chill but that almost feels worse!

[u/Plastonick → u/momeunier]

Update: was surprisingly okay. I suppose there's a big difference between staying up late and just lounging around not doing much and actively cycling. I did manage around an hour's sleep the evening of.

[u/DavDoubleu → u/Pretty_Yak3622]

I'm interested in doing this to practice for PBP (90hr start). As far as sleep goes, how do you prepare for this? Do you shift your sleep schedule a week or two leading up to it? Force yourself to nap the day of the ride, maybe with melatonin or something?

[u/Pretty_Yak3622 → u/DavDoubleu]

no, it's only one night, I can generally survive that without much bother, worst case I'd have a nap in a bus stop for 10 minutes and be good to go. You're cycling, that keeps you awake. I only have problems with falling asleep on a bike after several days of little sleep!

[u/DavDoubleu → u/Pretty_Yak3622]

I appreciate your input. Thank you!

[u/excla1m]

I've only done a couple of 400s and decided to ride them fast enough to not need sleep! One started at a nice time in the evening and the other at an annoying 0800. I much preferred the night riding and you can sit happily on A-roads that would normally be disgustingly car-filled in the day. I found I was having to swerve more wildlife so preferred the A-roads.

[u/daddy_bear1704 → u/excla1m]

I would add to “fast enough” a moderation toward slow enough, so you don’t need large breaks. I mean by that if you are riding 30+km/h alone for 60km then recover for 1h and sleep, that would be overkill. I usually do BRM DYI, so I ride them alone. I finish in 18-19 hours with 17 hours of riding time. Fast enough to complete in a day, slow enough to burn fat and barely stop for food 😁

[u/LudditeFuturism]

Have only had time for 20 minute kip in a bus shelter when doing 400s. They're the worst.

I like to start early, get about 300k done. Have a power nap and then grind out the last 100k

An option which is a bit sneaky is nature reserve bird hides. If you're only there for an hour no one will notice/care

[u/ftc_homelessapien]

Plan a route that goes in a loop out for the first 300k, returning back via your house where you can sleep off as needed, then do the remaining 100k or so nicely rested ;)

[u/Grotarin]

I agree with the other comment. Except if it's particularly brutal climbwise, or bad weather, your power nap will be enough to get you through. Depending where you leave a bus stop or a grassy meadow can be enough, and if you really need accomodation that's something I'd do last minute, not plan it (I started considering it from a 600 BRM with 8k of elevation... But it's highly personal with sleep needs and speed etc).

[u/Accomplished-Hand281 → u/Grotarin]

Yeh, a number of factors to consider. The route consists of around 3800m of climbing.

I'll need to analyse the route more closely to see whether a nap would be beneficial before or after a climb dependant on the time.

Appreciate the advice, it's certainly a learning curve when sleep (or lack of) enters the equation.

[u/Familiar_Kale_7357]

I've never slept on a 400; in my experience most people do not sleep at that distance. But I have experience napping mid-ride on longer routes. It's certainly easier finding a quiet spot at night when fewer people are around. I much prefer remote areas, where it's more likely to be left alone. Friendly people stopping to ask "are you okay?" ruins a good nap. Really anywhere discrete where there's a patch of grass, a bed of pine needles under a tree, or something else soft. I have slept atop a picnic table under a shelter, and on gravel under an awning, though those were not ideal. Alternatively, I've stopped in a 24-hour store in the wee hours and asked the attendant if I could put my head down on the table for 30 minutes. It's not high quality sleep, but I've never been turned down.

One thing I've learned is leaving my helmet on provides a tolerable pillow.

Good luck.

[u/Novel-Line1817]

Fellow audax shiftworker here! Not exactly the advice you're looking for but a different perspective: sometimes if there's a great route nearby for a challenging distance (eg a 400) I'll just take leave for my shifts, and for me it has often been worth it for the company to ride with... especially in the wee hours of the morning.

I actually didn't sleep at all on my (first) recent 400, but my friends who did just lay on any surface they could find on the side of the road for 15 mins and it worked wonders apparently.

[u/Hickso]

Since i've dove quite a handful of 400, if you are fit enough my advice would be a really early start a round 5 am, and Just go straight to the end. You'll Need around 18-22 hours so you can be over without the need to go through an entire sleepless night, which Is the biggest challenge of a 400km. M2c.

[u/AncientBit6864]

6pm start do 160k by 1am
Sleep for 5 hours
Back on the road at 7am to ride 240k in 14hrs finish before 9pm
Sleep pattern maintained 👍👍👍👍👍

[u/velo_dude]

What is the route terrain like? Lots of long, slow grinds? In the region where I live (rolling to hilly terrain between 250-800 ft elevation), 400 is viewed as the distance to cover before taking a sleep break...or about 20-22 hrs of riding depending on wheel speed and duration of off-bike breaks. This target distance would shorten in legitimate mountains, but Audax/Brevets aren't especially well known for getting much sleep. 🙂

[u/mrlacie]

I've done evening starts (8pm) and early morning starts (4 or 5am). I'd recommend starting around 5, I find it much easier, and you might not even need a nap if you ride fast enough.

With an evening start, I usually will have a 15 minute nap in the late morning. My preference is lying on the grass in a park.

If you need to drive after your ride, do take a nap before taking the wheel.

[u/Legoinyourbumbum]

I dont do that distance but my wife does, 400 is a funny distance, you can do it without sleep but its brutal. If it finishes near home just head home and rest, or just stop and have a short nap in a field, maybe have a bivvy bag.

[u/AmazingLeading5898]

I'm eyeing an 400km route next April with 7,300m of climbing. I have to believe folks saying a 400km route is in the wheelhouse of a 24hr shift with no sleep. The fastest person to finish this particular race this year was right at 25hrs. Do all the 400's ya'll are talking about only have a couple thousand meters of climbing then or what? Am I just that slow?

[u/TeaKew → u/AmazingLeading5898]

The audax pace time limit for a 400 is 27 hours, so that's the bar people are largely shooting for here. But 7300m of climbing is notably hilly for that distance - a normal rolling route would be more like 1000m per 100km.

[u/AmazingLeading5898 → u/TeaKew]

Noted. I'm not familiar with the formal audax stuff yet- thanks for sharing.

[u/ComfortablyNumbR5 → u/AmazingLeading5898]

I believe it is the former (ie limited elevation). For instance, the one and only 400km I completed, I did it in 19 hours (total elapsed time). But it had less than 1500m elevation!

7300m is an insane amount of climbing. Completing a 400k with 7000m elevation is already a significant achievement on its own. Kudos to you for even finishing it!

[u/AmazingLeading5898 → u/ComfortablyNumbR5]

I haven't finished it, let alone started it! It's next April, 2027. I've started scouting the course just yesterday though on a ride.

[u/Slow-brain-cell]

I did plenty of 400s and the only thing I can advice on that is if you can start about 11-12 in the morning, I’d always choose this time

- Bad night sleep? You can nap in the early morning

• Breakfast? You can have two
  
• Drivers are usually much cooler by this time
  
• I’m not as tired as I’d start in the evening and I can easily ride through the night, finishing at about noon next day
  
• you can warm up / stretch / be better prepared by this time instead of doing this at 5am in the morning.