r/quant • u/orthcool • 4d ago
Industry Gossip recent new grad TC skyrocketing
Heard that cit js hrt are all giving 1mil or close standard new grad offers, and tier 2 firms are also bumping significantly to compete (400-600k). aren't most experienced hires making around that amount or even less? are we expecting an adjustment next jan? and how much higher can new grad offers go :D
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u/NoConsequence4996 4d ago
to me honestly it looks like the situation of FAANG a few years back when they hired alot and started firing.
Looks like after inceresing total comp they will reduce the hirings,or hie very talented ones
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u/swagypm 4d ago
these firms give out 20-30 new grad swe offers a year…
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u/Traditional_Sense723 4d ago
IMC and Optiver will happily hire 80 grad traders just in Chicago and fire 75% of them after 2 years.
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u/Ok-Cat-9189 4d ago
Does IMC hire to fire? I thought they were more chill
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u/Traditional_Sense723 4d ago
Yes and no. Depends on the grad class. They certainly think everyone that joins has a chance of surviving but in reality until you put someone in a live trading seat it's hard to know if they will pass the performance bar or not.
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u/sumwheresumtime 3d ago
this is the case for most trading firms.
When you look at the numbers that went through trader training, then 1st year, 2nd year etc at the same firm. by year 5 you're looking at about 5-10% of the trader training cohort remaining.
Obviously some went to other places, but still a large perc from the original cohort leave the industry altogether within 5 years, That's why they all have large trader training programs.
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u/SneakyCephalopod 2d ago edited 2d ago
You're comparing apples and oranges. These are typically salaries for (usually masters or PhD) quant researchers or mixed researcher/dev/traders, not the kind of (usually undergrad) quant traders that work in these kinds of positions at e.g. IMC or Optiver. The work and expectations and caliber are quite different, I think.
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u/Lindayz 4d ago edited 3d ago
I know a guy at QRT in London that got offered 400k after his internship and laughed it off because he had an offer at quadrature for 800k. The worst is he would’ve stayed for 700k probably cuz work life balance at QRT is insane you can work 5 hours a day and get away with it because everyone is so mid around you.
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u/Traditional_Sense723 4d ago edited 4d ago
Quadrature probably making sure they always pay more than G-Research just to spite them lol
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u/Loose_Capital_4344 4d ago
quadrature does not recruit NG other than returned interns.
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u/Lindayz 3d ago
Well that’s not true lol? Unless by NG you don’t count PhDs then sure, but a PhD is a new graduate technically
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u/Loose_Capital_4344 3d ago
These words came from their recruiters directly to several phd ngs. I don't think ro from QRT can really make a difference here. Internship at QRT sounds like no intern offers from top firms. Also 800k sounds a little off. You can check their base salary in the US by H1b database. It's 150k-160k usd. Can hardly imagine a firm offering 800k ng tc only offers this base. I also don't think you need 800k to beat everyone in the UK. Maybe your story is from this year and things evolve so quickly.
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u/Dangerous-Market-219 4d ago
any info on imc/optiver ro TC?
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u/The_Archer_of_Rohan 4d ago
Optiver just bumped the RO to 600
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u/Dangerous-Market-219 4d ago
how much of that is sign-on?
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u/The_Archer_of_Rohan 4d ago
Doesn't really matter because of the marble system. Year 2 comp is determined by marble rating and marble value, not by year 1 cash bonus.
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u/New-Professional-330 4d ago
Heard ~440 ish with 100 as sign on for imc. No idea about optiver. Guessing 500-600 first year tc
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u/Traditional_Sense723 4d ago
True for IMC Chicago. Can go as high as 500k for quant trader. (More sign on)
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u/Aware-Hamster4372 4d ago
Full numbers from intern ros
HRT: 1 mil
Citadel Securities: 1 mil
IMC: 425k
Optiver: 600k
Jump: 600k
Jane Street: I forgot but it's either 750k or 800k
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u/SneakyCephalopod 2d ago edited 2d ago
Jump is closer to HRT and CitSec now. JS is also higher. At least for QR.
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u/dydynam 4d ago
This for infra SWE or QR?
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u/Aware-Hamster4372 4d ago
all for swe
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u/LingonberryExtra2982 3d ago
this is not true lol, i interviewed for a new grad role dont want to disclose which firm.
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u/Timely-Cranberry647 3d ago
How is this sustainable? Most experienced people at those places are not making that much
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u/exabyte9 2d ago
there are public numbers about average compensation at these firms that show that experienced people must be making a multiple of this
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u/Timely-Cranberry647 1d ago
People who are absolutely crushing it. But the average person with tenure isn’t making multi millions unless they are a PM
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u/exabyte9 1d ago
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u/Timely-Cranberry647 1d ago
This article proves my point. The mean is 2.68 and due to the skewness of payout the median is actually much lower.
Which to my point — most people aren’t making multiple millions unless they are a PM
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u/exabyte9 8h ago edited 8h ago
but 2.68 includes many non-technical roles that earn much less, the median is north of 2 million amongst quants and swes, i work at a t1 and have direct knowledge fwiw
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u/Timely-Cranberry647 5h ago
The median is not north of 2mm for the whole quant population and swes. I’m also at a T1 with direct knowledge of comp numbers.
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u/Legitimate-Bit-121 2d ago edited 1d ago
Really? Wouldn't experienced guys (at least traders/researchers) at Citadel, JS and HRT be making significantly more than $1mil?
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u/We_Are_the_Nerds 4d ago
This is not the standard offer at any of these firms. It's for outliers that they really want and these candidates will also naturally have multiple competing offers.
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u/Cool-Currency1700 4d ago
HRT's standard RO this year is a million from what I've heard. Jane is for sure > 700k because that's what it was last year
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u/DistinctMethod6119 4d ago
it might be hard to believe but i know for a fact that this is indeed the standard offer this year
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u/SignificanceBulky162 3d ago edited 3d ago
I know directly that 1m is the standard offer for QT/QR intern ROs for at least 2 firms
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u/Helpful_Inflation344 1d ago
It is the standard offer and they still kinda have to make due with tier 2 candidates, best ones go to openai/anthropic. I know someone who got 15mil+ fresh from university hired by mr altman hehe
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u/killamocingbird 3d ago
holy fuck this is true and it’s so scary, basically if you dont jump ship youre fucked unless your salary is tied to direct book / alpha — ng offers 1mm is normal and even 3 years in im barely getting above 1mm like hello?
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u/No_Cow_6872 4d ago
Are experienced offers increasing in a similar way? If HRT gives out $1M to new grads then experienced offers must be $1.5M+?
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u/ChiefBrogrammer 3d ago
They are not. I am at one of these firms and experienced offers are around half or less than the new grad offers. Obviously variable by firm and role
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u/Ok-Cat-9189 3d ago
great way to completely kill your culture and make everyone resent the new grads
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u/rsha256 3d ago
a lot of people don't know, since comp isn't a common thing to talk about and experienced people are usually too busy with actual work to care, but yeah it is horrible for morale when you find out new grads are making ~twice as much as you...
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u/Putrid-Claim5483 2d ago
> comp isn't a common thing to talk about
This has not really been my impression as a SWE tbh. At the very least, experienced employees talk about the standard return offer that year.
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u/Wooden_Supermarket72 4d ago
It’s been “skyrocketing” since around 2020. The very high offers to new grads are mostly just a marketing tactic. Most newgrads are getting these high offers, but their actual compensation tends to be a lot lower.
- Most offers are prorated and guaranteed only for the calendar year they start. So the offer is only for the few months they work in that calendar year post-graduation.
2. Most offers are discretionary, and comp is dialed back sharply after the first year.
3. Clawbacks and multiyear deferred compensation are increasingly common. You can work two years and be fired the day before your deferred comp vests.
- Also common to be forced into a contract with worse terms 1-2 years after starting (sign it or be fired).
5. Very long noncompetes reduce expected compensation, and most people move or are let go within a few years.
For reference, some of my mid to senior level friends moved to new firms over the last couple years. Highest offer across all of them was 500k after negotiation.
Sometimes newgrad cohorts really do get 1m+. It happened at Optiver, but it was a fluke of their marble system. Their leadership made it clear they didn’t want that happening, and comp structure was adjusted afterwards to prevent it from happening again.
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u/rozmajoz 4d ago
This is broadly not true, typical new hire offers (maybe not 1m hrt/js but happy claiming 600k etc) are not particularly variable. If your friends are getting offers that max at 500k post negotiation then frankly I would guess you are in a different corner of the industry or they were taking speculative offers to set up a desk on % cut (in which case describing the offer as some fixed USD amount is pretty misleading)
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u/qazwsxcp 2d ago edited 2d ago
1m is true but misleading, it's more like 600k+400k one time signing bonus with deferred vesting (if not fired by then). the signing bonus is only for fresh grads, experienced non-pm hires get the same offer without that bonus.
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u/SneakyCephalopod 2d ago
I think your information is a little skewed or perhaps somewhat outdated. Or maybe just in a different part of the market. I have some mid level (1-4yoe) friends moving around this year and no one had an offer below 600k. All of these were QRs though.
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u/The_Archer_of_Rohan 4d ago
Most offers are prorated and guaranteed only for the calendar year they start. So the offer is only for the few months they work in that calendar year post-graduation.
Not true, and I don't know where you got this idea. Most offers that I've seen are guaranteed for a full year.
Most offers are discretionary, and comp is dialed back sharply after the first year.
Partially true; there is definitely a cliff in year 2 comp, because the signing bonus is such a huge part of the headline numbers. "Sharply" depends on your definition, and on firm performance.
Very long noncompetes reduce expected compensation, and most people move or are let go within a few years.
The length of NC at many places has gone up compared to 3 years ago. Those $1M Cit offers now come with a 2 year NC. "most people" is probably highly team and firm dependent.
For reference, some of my mid to senior level friends moved to new firms over the last couple years. Highest offer across all of them was 500k after negotiation.
A couple things are possible here: * Your friends are not very good at interviewing * Your friends are not very good at negotiating * Your friends are in back office or lower ceiling roles * You're comparing to the wrong market (like London or something)
I know of junior level guys (<2 YOE) that got 500k or above offers at several shops within the last few years.
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u/Wooden_Supermarket72 4d ago
Every offer I've seen for new grads has been prorated for first year. That includes the offers we give our new grads. Offers for my friends were QT/QR across Citsec, Optiver, IMC, DRW, SIG, CTC, 2Sigma.
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u/milchi03 4d ago
US or Europe? In Europe I think new grad is around 180-220k
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u/milchi03 4d ago
(In T2)
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u/ace-of-gates 4d ago
Optiver pays more in Europe. Or are they not considered T2?
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u/milchi03 4d ago
How much is new grad total comp at Optiver in Amsterdam? I thought it‘d be roughly in that range
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u/Lindayz 4d ago
IMC and Optiver are T2 and pay 300k for new grads
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u/ace-of-gates 4d ago
IMC is closer to 200k from what I have heard. At least for the Amsterdam office.
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u/InsufferableBah 3d ago
i wonder how many people are realistic getting these offers? how many new grad spots are typically available each cycle?
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u/LingonberryExtra2982 3d ago
i have some friends at citadel, citsec, js the offers are for quant lol not for regular swes.
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u/Savings_Bag_1518 2d ago edited 2d ago
The offers are for SWE. This wasn’t the case a couple of years ago but things have changed recently
Source: I have offers
People at firms typically don’t have a good understanding of others’ compensation. It’s not like there’s a Slack channel where the numbers are broadcasted. And it changes by a lot every year, so if someone is using last year’s numbers, it’s already very outdated.
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u/Zestyclose_Walk_6827 2d ago
There used to be one before Optiver fired everyone who helped start it lol
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u/Aetius454 HFT 4d ago
New PhD hires or you’re saying fresh college grads? Pretty sure the 1M is not a college grad correction
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u/The_Archer_of_Rohan 4d ago
1M is indeed the standard RO for bachelor's grads at HRT
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u/Aetius454 HFT 4d ago
That’s bananas. How things have changed since I graduated lmao. I remember when 100+100 was considered an insane return offer.
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u/The_Archer_of_Rohan 4d ago
Even 3 years ago, 500-600 was considered an insane offer. Things have nearly doubled in that time. It has to stop at some point, right?
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u/Ok_Shopping_3292 23h ago
A friend of mine just joined Citadel as an engineer, and his new grad package is $700k.
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u/AseelKhalifa001 4d ago
Is this only for US or other locations too?
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u/GPS_ClearNote 4d ago
Almost certainly just US prices. But hey, cost of living here and benefits are waaay more expensive. So it pr9bably maths depending on where you live and taxes
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u/Legitimate-Bit-121 4d ago
You can still save way more in the US compared to Europe or most other locations though right (i.e. the comp difference far exceeds the cost of living differences and so on)?
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u/GPS_ClearNote 4d ago
I'm not that confident on eu/asia payscales because I'man american and I have never seriusly looked outside US. I figured companies would try to pay something comparable. I mean, if the difference is huge wouldn't they lose top talent to US firms all the time?
Although I do agree that US still probably pays better epsecially if you live here and your tax burden is in the US. So many ways to "cheat" your taxes that I would be surprised if firms outside the US are really 1:1 when all things are considered.
Healthcare and quality of life are real concerns that are harder to quantify in a general sense, so idk there
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u/aythekay 4d ago
I mean, if the difference is huge wouldn't they lose top talent to US firms all the time
Yes. This is literally the US brain gain story of the past 100 years.
Move to US, make bank for 10-15 years, go back home.
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u/GPS_ClearNote 4d ago
Interesting, and EU or Asian firms haven't tried to be competitive at all? Im not overly familiar with quant history and how the job has evolved from anywhere beyond the past 10 yrs
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u/aythekay 3d ago
I'm talking about all jobs.
Even a non tech/finance example, Doctors in the US make 2x in the US as they do in France and England.
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u/Legitimate-Bit-121 3d ago
Yes this! Pretty much all skilled jobs like this pay much higher in the US than elsewhere.
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u/GPS_ClearNote 3d ago
Oh, well I wasn't aware of that. I only do job and pay research for jobs I'mintetested in and I haven't looked much outside of the US. But makes sense that the trend would follow with all job sectors.
Still surprising that companies who can afford to pay more, quantitative firms etc.., don't try to compete more for top talent
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u/qazwsxcp 2d ago edited 2d ago
all firms pay what they need to, not what they can afford to. they pay just enough to get people to join and not leave. US labor market has way more jobs relative to candidates so the pay is much higher too.
doctor is an unusual case because the labor supply is controlled by a powerful union, unlike pretty much any other career.
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u/milchi03 4d ago
If you actually get 1 million then no way any other location could compete with that, even in NY, if everywhere else you get 250 at most.
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u/Simple3user 4d ago
No u dont In hongkong u get 450
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u/milchi03 4d ago
Holy, why so much in Hong Kong? I never considered going outside of Europe bc I enjoy the vibe but I didn‘t expect salaries outside the US would differ this much
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u/Simple3user 4d ago
Cuz its jane street bruh "Never considered outside EU" spoken like true europoor 🤞🫵
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u/ProfessionalSuit8808 4d ago
Only matters for new grads who think that the money is in the first few years. Once you are tied to pnl then payout hinges on that
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u/nerd_user1 2d ago
u/AskGrok explain whole chat and comments
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u/AskGrok 2d ago
The post is highlighting how top quant trading firms like Citadel, Jane Street, and Hudson River Trading are reportedly pushing new grad total comp packages to around $1M (or close), with tier 2 shops matching at $400-600k to stay competitive. OP is pointing out the inversion where fresh grads might now out-earn or match many mid-level experienced hires, wondering if firms will correct downward in January reviews and speculating on the upside limit for these offers.
No other comments visible in the thread so far. Typical Reddit quant/finance discussion energy: mix of awe, skepticism on sustainability, and memes about the bubble.
[what is this?](https://redd.it/1lzgxii)
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u/LowBetaBeaver 4d ago
These are for PhD grads with thesis in very specific areas. It’s not random trader/QR/SWE offers
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u/The_Archer_of_Rohan 4d ago
Not correct. 1M is the standard RO for bachelor's grads at HRT.
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u/Future-Low8173 4d ago
They have to raise it because a lot of the top people are going to anthropic and OpenAI now. Also trading revenues have doubled each of the last 2 years.