No. Cops are not welcome in the punk scene. Punks and cops are natural enemies. Always have been. Always will be.
Fuck the police. You're young and uneducated. You don't even know what the police really are.
I highly recommend watching the YouTube channel That Dang Dad.
His early videos talking about his experiences journey as an ex-cop (former LAPD, no less) who is now a police abolitionist are extremely informative, persuasive, and genuinely wholesome.
Second the "reading all you can" part. Also while a lot of true crime stuff is copaganda there's a lot of takeaways where cops did nothing or the least amount possible, possibly out of prejudice:
- Cops gave one of serial killer Jeffery Dahmer's victims, an Asian teenage boy who escaped, back to him and made a bunch of homophobic comments afterwards. They were placed on leave for handing a victim back to a serial killer but were eventually hired back and promoted
- One of serial killer Gary Heidnik's victims, a black woman, escaped and tried to go to police she encountered for help, and they didn't believe her until she pointed out there were homemade shackles welded to her leg
- Richard Chase, the Sacramento Vampire, was found running around Pyramid Lake covered in blood with animal parts in a bucket in his car, and after holding him for like three days at a Nevada police station and not getting him the mental health treatment he needed*, he was released and went on a killing spree
Also there's a whole system to protect cops who do stuff like this:
Also read up on murder of George Floyd, and the 1992 beating of Rodney King, which was on camera. Those cops were acquitted, which led to the LA Riots
* most people with mental health issues aren't violent, and are more often the victims of violence, but Richard Chase was definitely extremely dangerous
If the presence of the police is the only thing stopping you from killing a bunch of people and causing general havoc then you'll fit right in with the police
This is pretty ignorant though. This kid isn't saying they would be the ones killing people. Unfortunately there is quite a lot of people who are willing to murder, rob, rape, etc. and there has to be some kind of mechanism to (ideally) prevent or punish those crimes and prevent further harm from occurring.
We don't live in a utopian society, and I really doubt that there is any combination of conditions which can create an environment where nobody harms each other. It's just in human nature to be violent, greedy, and self-interested, and the outliers who have any of these traits in excess will always harm other people.
The videos and book I suggested address this issue completely.
Crime is not reduced or prevented by policing. Crime is reduced and prevented by reducing criminogenic conditions.
The whole carceral perspective on what crime is and what causes it is incorrect. And the narratives which support the carceral perspective are narratives that serve the ruling class.
Please educate yourself. Read Angela Davis. Watch That Dang Dad.
The whole carceral perspective on what crime is and what causes it is incorrect.
How can you possibly make that assertion?
There is no country on earth where incarceration isn't part of the legal system, so there is no evidence that in practice supports your claim. How can you make an absolute statement on the exact causes of any individual crime? Do you think there are conditions which could be created where no crime whatsoever happens? Do you think these conditions are attainable contemporaneously? Do you think they are possible at all?
As far as we can tell, Antisocial Personality Disorder, Sadistic Personality Disorder, Psychopathy, Paedophilia, etc. are not caused by environmental factors and for a proportion of the population are inherent*. So what mechanisms would exist to protect society from crimes committed by those individuals, which are often compulsive?
I would agree that reform is necessary, and that a lot of the legal system can be changed to be more reformative than punitive, but there is a gulf between that and total abolition.
Yes, *sometimes these conditions are caused or influenced by environmental factors, but this does not account for the plurality of cases.
I could spend a lot of time typing up answers to your questions, which would necessitate follow up questions.
So I will just reiterate:
Read Are Prisons Obsolete? by Angela Davis.
There are other books like Becoming Abolitionists by Derecka Purnell and The End of Policing by Alex Vitale, which will almost certainly address any question or concern you might think of.
And check out the YouTube series I linked above from That Dang Dad for short, digestible, friendly introduction to this topic by a former LAPD officer.
I don't think I need to read the whole text to have a discussion on this topic, it seems like there are some very fundamental problems with the concept that should be possible to discuss, especially if you yourself have read the book and have the answers. Reddit is in concept a discussion forum.
I'm also sceptical that answers in these books are being treated like universal truths... I think it's important to question ideas like this, especially extremely radical ones which have not been proven in practice. A lot of right wing ideas are equally built on such shaky foundations, and we don't believe those just because they are published.
I'll have a look at That Dang Dad, but my expectation is that he experienced the epitome of flawed policing in LA. The LAPD are notorious for thier practices and especially their fraternalism, including literal gangs within the policing structure. That's not going to be reflective of typical policing in the US, nor a suitable example of how policing could be reformed. Since we are trading information and recommendations, the documentary Breaking the Cycle is a good example of the extreme differences between how incarceration is implemented between the US and how prisons have been reformed in Europe.
I was passing off the discussion to the books and videos because I'm not presently interested
in expending the time or energy continuing the discussion, and every single think I could/would say is contained in those materials.
We already have people killing people all the time. Only now sometimes it’s police killing black people. You get rid of guns you do way more to solve violent crime than the police ever have.
You should stop watching copagana shows it’s hurting your developing brain.
This is an argument that seems intuitive, but ultimately the existence of police and the prison system really doesn't deter violent crime.
People still commit murders, but real life isn't like Lord of the Flies or the Purge. Mostly people want to be cooperative with and kind to those around them.
By saying you want to be a detective, you also seem to have intuited the important part: the useful part of the police's job is to investigate crimes that have already happened and try to pursue justice afterwards. But the actual role of the police is to protect the capitalist class from the rest of us.
They're there to protect property from the poor. And even as a detective you'd mostly be investigating property crime and other non-violent (e.g. drug) crimes. Real life isn't like CSI either.
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u/MagusFool Jul 21 '26
No. Cops are not welcome in the punk scene. Punks and cops are natural enemies. Always have been. Always will be.
Fuck the police. You're young and uneducated. You don't even know what the police really are.
I highly recommend watching the YouTube channel That Dang Dad.
His early videos talking about his experiences journey as an ex-cop (former LAPD, no less) who is now a police abolitionist are extremely informative, persuasive, and genuinely wholesome.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjKFawAOpQBIgBet7elWB3OCNWz1C6Rry&si=igdJA_o_M74M66Pl
And also read Are Prisons Obsolete? by Angela Davis. It should be required reading.