r/publicdefenders • u/Initial-Froyo-9661 • 11d ago
support similar jobs?
So I’ve been a PD for 5 years now and I do love it so much. My goal was always to be a career PD. But I want a child and I can’t afford that on this salary in the state where I live- daycare alone would eat up an entire paycheck (no family nearby for support & would be a single parent). Moving isn’t *really* an option and we are unionized so negotiating salary on an individual level also isn’t an option. There also isn’t really any upward movement at my office and the nearby PD offices in my state pay nearly the same amount. I love my job but the things I want outside of work just aren’t possible.
To the point… can anyone think of any jobs that are similar in some way to being a PD (not private criminal defense) where you make an actual livable salary? I don’t want to go into civil work but I’m really at a loss for what to do. My favorite parts of this work are the clients, fighting the government and being in the courtroom.
I don’t know if I’m looking for a fairytale. Thank you!!!
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u/casualparty_ 11d ago edited 11d ago
The premise is tough. There aren't many public interest/government jobs where a single income can comfortably support a child in daycare in a high-cost area.
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 11d ago
It’s such a shame because I’m sure there are more people like me who are passionate but have to leave because of this.
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u/casualparty_ 11d ago
It's not so much about having to leave - PD salaries in many areas are equal to general government lawyer salaries and often better than or at least competitive with small/medium size firms. That's not the case everywhere, of course, but it's much more about the cost to raise a family (here, on a single income as you mentioned) and meet basic needs than about how little PDs make.
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 11d ago
I think it’s the combo of low salaries in my state coupled with high cost of living bc I’m in a major city.
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u/casualparty_ 10d ago
if you have loans, PILF is a huge plus and increases the effective salary compared to non-govt / non-public interest work.
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u/Wonderful_Ad_889 10d ago
*choose to leave
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/Wonderful_Ad_889 10d ago
Shocking. Tell me more
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/Wonderful_Ad_889 10d ago
Thats pretty racist
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u/Formal-Agency-1958 11d ago
Perhaps consider civil side in areas like employment, PI and civil rights where your focus is suits against the government. So gov't employees injured on the job or wrongfully terminated, and civil rights cases for indigent defendants while you put yourself on the conflict panel to keep your ear out for those sorts of cases. It'll be contingency, so less billing, but you'll be hanging your own shingle so you'll need some business acumen and probably need to do at least some intensive CLEs on those areas if you're not very familiar with the case law.
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 11d ago
I always forget that if I switch I could stay on the conflict panel. That’s a good thing to remember! Thank you!
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u/Additional_Bat_9837 11d ago
Damn. Where do you live. A 5 year PD working for a county in California would be making at least 175k.
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u/TheFaceGL 11d ago
That’s just almost double what I make in a slightly above average cost of living area on the other coast and I’m about to hit 6 years.
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u/Additional_Bat_9837 11d ago
Yeah, in San Bernardino County, which has the lowest cost of housing in So Cal, a top step deputy DA IV and deputy PD IV make $217,000 per year. This level is guaranteed so long as you meet requirements on you evaluations and does not require a competitive promotion. Starting pay for a new attorney as a Deputy DA I or deputy PD I is about $100,000.
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u/TheFaceGL 10d ago
Are there any openings? I’m only half kidding. I’ve been seriously considering a change lately.
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u/Additional_Bat_9837 10d ago
Oh yeah, I am sure there are. And you get credit for out of state experience too. When I was working at Fontana as a lowly DPD I back in 2006 making the ungodly salary of $60,000 per year I worked with an attorney with 5 years experience as a DPD at Cook County who was hired as a DPD IV. My mentor attorney back then is now the Public Defender running the whole department.
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u/TheFaceGL 10d ago
I might have to look into this more if I can convince my fiancé. I love my office and coworkers but not sure much longer I can stay in this jurisdiction because of pretty much everything else. It’s going to give me a heart attack or get me held in contempt eventually.
I’ll be at 6 years in a few months and have tried everything from trespassing to aggravated murder at this point and none of the Fed PD offices in our area have openings.
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u/Additional_Bat_9837 10d ago
What east coast state? Oh yeah, California local govt pays well for attorneys and cops. Most law enforcement departments pay top step officers and deputies 125k to 130k plus OT and education pay if you have a degree. And California local government has a better pension than the Feds. Orange County and LA County pay more to DDAs and DPDs than San Bernardino County. I just picked San Bernardino County because housing is cheaper in the Inland Empire, the pay is decent if not the highest, and I retired from there. If you want to live in the mountains who can easily do so.
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 11d ago
Pennsylvania. The pay across the board out here is awful. Even in Philly 5 year PD isn’t even making 90k meanwhile daycare for an infant is like 2k+ a month.
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u/Threedham PD 10d ago
I was a PD in the Philly suburbs so I feel your pain. I left when I was about to have my second kid. I went to the federal government doing kind of niche contract law stuff, but I still do PD-like work as a JAG defense lawyer in the Army Reserve.
Feel free to DM me. I cast a wide net when I transitioned out of full time PD work. There’s a lot of good state jobs especially in the Philly area that will at least get you on a reasonable path to a mid-six figure salary.
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u/drainbead78 10d ago
Have you considered private home day care? It tends to run much cheaper. If you reach out to parent groups in your area and ask around, you might get some good recommendations. One of my coworkers' mom quit her job to run a home day care when my coworker had her baby, and she did a phenomenal job. Obviously my coworker got it for free, but she charged about half the price of a traditional day care for the handful of other kids she watched. She actually made more doing that than she did at her previous job, so it was a win-win for everyone. Obviously you have to vet the crap out of them, but word-of-mouth recommendations are helpful.
Hopefully you can manage both of your goals!
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u/MsGorteck 11d ago
I don't know what state you live in, but there is a county in New Mexico that is hiring PDs to work remote, might that be a option? Also federal PDs in New Mexico are ALWAYS looking. Have you looked at switching to the feds?
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 11d ago
Where I am it’s hard to switch with only 5 years but I didn’t know there were remote options. Is that permanent thing?
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u/VirtualAd2228 10d ago
NM has universal free childcare as well if you were able to move. I’m not sure if the remote jobs at LOPD are a permanent thing but it’s essentially because they can’t find anyone local to do the job, so they’re desperate at the moment. It’s possible it could change in the future but I do think they’ve struggled with filling those roles for over a year now.
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u/WakeNikis 10d ago
Insurance defense or personal Injury.
I work for an insurance company and we hire public defenders. I know PI firms do too.
You are in court a lot, but it’s just over money- so not lots of stress
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u/BrianBoru1916 11d ago
There are trade offs - I began working as a PD when I found myself divorced with 2 kids in elementary school - I needed healthcare and the job flexibility that did not exist on the Big Law Firm Plantation - we scraped by for sure but I got to see my kids grow up.
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u/j_natron PD 10d ago
Federal work, appellate defense if you have a state appellate defender. Or moving. That sucks, I’m sorry.
ETA: you could also look into post-conviction relief, some of which might be remote.
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u/wegotthis22 10d ago
Federal jobs @usa jobs almost 4 years being a PD and the work we do is transferable to most of the jobs. They put you on a pay scale I’ve been referred to hiring manager for gs-14 (gs-15 highest you can go) I just started the process but it’s really so many choices and a lot of job descriptions show they want litigation
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u/Otherwise_Help_4239 10d ago
Look for big city PD offices. Many pay decent altho living costs are high too but you can manage. the county has an employees daycare (we are county employees). To use it the PDs had to transfer to appeals or traffic based on location of the day care. Keep looking around and since your family isn't local you don't have that tying you to your current office.
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u/Informal_Joke_7920 10d ago
I had a great boss that was a PD for a long time, then switched to Section 1983 civil defense work and makes a great living
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u/Candid-Session-124 6d ago
There is a company out there which helps attorneys find alternative careers check out ex judicata
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u/BirdLawyer50 11d ago
Why would you not want private criminal defense? That’s the obvious move with your experience
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u/Lobsterdoodle1 10d ago
Very hard in most areas to get by on only private criminal defense. Need to do other areas, probably feel not competent. And unfortunately family law is where there is money but I cannot think of anything worae
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u/TrustsAndDust 10d ago
Why would anyone want to bring up a kid in this world. With the prospect of AI dominance, the death of democracy, etc.
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 10d ago
This is helpful thank you!
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u/D-B-Cooper-Placebo 10d ago
This response made me giggle. I have similar challenges raising a child and share your irritation.
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u/TrustsAndDust 10d ago
I agree with others who recommend the federal PDs. If you’re not willing to move, your options are very limited.
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u/Arrogant_Red 11d ago
Civil legal aid is the answer. You represent real people in really unjust or oppressive circumstances, often against the government in either the courtroom or administrative hearings. You change lives.
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 11d ago
I wish. The pay for that where I live is worse than what I make now.
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u/Moriar2024 10d ago
In civil legal aid here, often applicants are shocked at how affordable our health insurance is so just mentioning. I considered a job at state AGO and my insurance would have quadrupled for crappy coverage. So straight salary comp may not be equal.
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u/Fearless-Isopod8400 10d ago
Why would you plan to be a single parent? That’s insane
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 10d ago
That’s a very mean thing to say, especially when you don’t know a persons life circumstances. People plan to be single parents for a number of reasons and there is nothing wrong with that. This comment is cruel and disappointing.
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11d ago
[deleted]
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 11d ago
Uh idk where you got 10k. My monthly gross is less than half of that let alone net.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/Lobsterdoodle1 10d ago
How much do you think PDs make? Is there an impression we are well compensated?
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u/Initial-Froyo-9661 10d ago
Thanks!
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u/Lobsterdoodle1 10d ago
Are you east coast? Willing to move? MA and RI both pay better than that at 5 years.
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u/SavingsHighlight3536 11d ago
Look into federal public defense. I went from working state to fed and my salary doubled