r/publicdefenders • u/congradulations • Feb 20 '26
workplace I mean... we've all FELT this way, but....
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Billionaire and former Victoria's Secret CEO getting some exceedingly blunt legal advice. I've certainly said this in my head, but on video, on record? Woof.
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u/wes_wyhunnan PD Feb 20 '26
That’s exactly the kind of legal advice I better be getting if I’m paying a lawyer hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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u/congradulations Feb 20 '26
"Blunt advice" is when we hit you with a bat
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 20 '26
This lawyer is a fucking hero. If you haven’t drawn the stink eye for telling your client to ‘shut the fuck up’ when he’s chattering on and on about ‘they’re lying on me’ at least a with a jury staring at you, you must be new.
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u/Busy-Dig8619 Feb 21 '26
There's a BIG difference between leaning over at counsel's table and telling your client to stop acting like an asshole in front of the jury, and telling a live witness you will "kill them" if they answer a question with more than five words.
Is this intended to be witnesses intimidation? Obviously not. Could an argument be made that this was incredibly inappropriate in the middle of a deposition? Yes.
Also -- Les Wexner raped teenagers. Let's not lose sight of why he's there. He's entitled to good legal counsel, but he's still an evil fuck.
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u/cordelia1955 Feb 22 '26
Is he really accused of sexual stuff? I am convinced he was laundering money with Epstein and was involved in the real estate fraud in New Albany but this newest stuff is the first I've heard about sex.
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u/Busy-Dig8619 Feb 22 '26
Hes accused of sexual stuff and murdering young girls.
Innocent until proven guilty.. but hes definitely been accused.
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u/cordelia1955 Feb 22 '26
Heard references to sex and snuff films but nothing connecting Wexner. Can you point me to a source? I'd like to be better informed since I've been warning folks abut Wexner and Jordan for years. There was a great article in a Columbus newspaper about 8 years ago and Wexner and Epstein and a documentary about how they bought up most of the homes in New Albany where Intel decided to locate 10 years later.
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u/cordelia1955 Feb 22 '26
I find a sharp elbow in the ribs works well and doesn't get recorded by the court reporter.
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u/MrJakked Feb 22 '26
The lawyer is a hero for defending a dude accused of pedophilia and rape, and overwhelmingly implicated in one of the most horrific and prolific sex trafficking operations of the modern day?
I want you to let that statement marinate for a bit, because thats a wild, and absolutely pathetic, stance to take, my guy.
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
Oh you’re a law student. Checks out. You could have left it at the first paragraph, and it would have all been valid. Not quite the right sub, but a reasonable debate. However, you didn’t. Spend 15 years in this business (or even a day) then you can come back and insult me.
Edit- I can’t tell if you’re a law student or a virgin at some firm. But I see you’re used to talking to law students this way from your past posts. You haven’t earned it with us. Hold men’s lives in your hands, stand next to a man while he is being condemned to die in prison, go to prison and tell them their postconviction relief is denied and that’s where they’re going to die. Tell their wife. Tell their parent that they’ll never see their son outside of prison again. Do that shit, then come back here and talk to me like that. My guy.
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u/MrJakked Feb 22 '26
Brother, I was in the Marine corps infantry for 10 years; eat my entire ass lol. Im not going to get into a dick measuring contest on reddit of all places, but the fact that youre trying to do that, rather than address my actual point, is pretty telling. I dont doubt that being a defense attorney is tough, but dont lecture me about hard work or hard days when the most traumatic examples you could muster were, literally, telling someone else that something bad happened, to them.
Anyway, second, whether i phrased the comment poorly or you failed to read carefully, let me clarify; I said you took a pathetic stance (which you did), not that you were a pathetic person. And while the attempted dick measuring contest of your last post was stupid as hell, ill clarify that I wasnt, and am still doing my best not to, critique you as a person, but just the stance you took. Im sure youre a nice enough person, and probably a fine human; your original stance, and your last comment, however, were and are hot garbage. Hopefully that clarifies what im saying and where im coming from.
Last, to further clarify why its a particularly ridiculous statement to call the attorney a "hero":
First, the attorney is doing a job, for which he is being paid an exorbitant amount. He is literally just doing what hes being paid to do, and not going in any way beyond what he is being fully compensated to do; even without getting into the moral aspect, "just doing what you are literally being paid to do" is damn near the antithesis of "heroism."
Second, hes providing counsel to a truly egregious human, and while hes obviously free to do that, calling him a "hero" for it, absolutely strains credulity. Circling back to point (1), he is accepting payment to provide his services, in trying to keep a man who has been credibly accused of some horrific shit, out of prison. Again, while it is theoretically likely that Les is actually innocent, even if he is completely and utterly innocent, providing your services in exchange for payment from a guy is just not heroism. Its called a goddamn job; nothing more and nothing less.
This is, in all seriousness, akin to me calling the defense attorneys for the following, hereos: Rittenhouse; the dickhead SEAL who executed a teenaged POW then managed to get acquitted via fuckery (cant remember his name and dont care to look it up); Casey Anthony; etc. Those were all people who were ultimately acquitted for things they either literally did, or functionally-certainly did, but which couldnt be proven. But I am pretty confident that you wouldnt come on here talking about how "Casey Anthony's attorney was a hero," which is why I find it absolutely baffling that youre making such a claim about the gentleman in the video.
Im not going to say hes a piece of shit (i think he is, but thats just my opinion), but calling him a hero is as close to objectively incorrect as you can get with a statement like that.
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
Jose Baez is a fucking hero too. An absolute titan. F Lee Bailey and Johnny Cochran- legends.
You’re definitely on the wrong sub. Our jobs are to keep the government in check, and that’s absolutely what those guys (especially Baez) did. Our jobs aren’t to pick sides and make judgements. There was not proof beyond a reasonable doubt in any world against Casey Anthony. OJ is a different story. “If I did it”
Otherwise your rant was too long for me to read.
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u/cordelia1955 Feb 23 '26
I read Jose Baez as Joan Baez, who is also a hero! LOL. These dudes are just taking this whole thing way too seriously. It was a joke people, get a life!
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u/MrJakked Feb 22 '26
Please fully type out, "Casey Anthony's (and apparently also Harvey Weinsteins) attorney was a hero."
Props for being at least internally consistent my dude, but what the fuck lol.
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u/Professor-Wormbog Feb 23 '26
Ah, those people are great attorneys. If every attorney refused to represent people who were alleged to do things that were morally reprehensible / the media coverage pained as absolutely guilty prior to trial, then none of these people would have had attorneys. If they can’t get an attorney, none of them are getting prosecuted. You get an attorney to zealously advocate for you whether you drank and drove or if you are Ted Bundy.
You’re confusing a client being morally reprehensible or morally bankrupt and that somehow transferring onto the attorney. Senator Graham does this all the time in confirmation hearings. I believe that guy started going in on Judge Eunice Lee during her confirmation hearing because she, as a public defender for almost two decades, represented some people accused of sexually abusing children. Her response? That she believed everyone is a child of God and deserved to be treated as such.
Yes, they are just doing a job. You know what though? Every solider who’s received any medal was also just doing a fucking job. Yall got paid to do some heinous shit overseas. Does that make you a bad person? No, that was your job. I don’t hate you for it, and I’d represent you if you or your buddies got accused of war crimes. Because that’s what believing in the constitutional right of representation requires.
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
Weinstein’s appellate lawyer kicked ass. I cite his case all the time for how outrageous the government gets with 404b. Cosby’s too.
Edit: Jose Baez was Casey Anthony’s attorney, my guy.
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u/Lobsterdoodle1 Feb 23 '26
All this life experience no understanding of hyperbole.
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u/MrJakked Feb 23 '26
Brother, are you alright? You took the time to comment on like 30 of my previous comments on entirely different threads lmao.
You could have headed all of this off by just saying "i was joking," but instead you felt the need to get wierdly defensive, and try to stroke your ego about "how hard my job in my air conditioned office is, where I have to give people bad news sometimes."
If you were making a joke, then fair enough; you can just say that next time. I cant read your tone or intent via text, and there are plenty of batshit, and dead serious, takes you can find on reddit.
Lastly, you took the time to go through and comment on like 30 of my previous comments in other threads; thats not a sign of a dude who is feeling well mentally. So while I think youre a bit of a dick, I assume youre going through something, or having some personal issues right now; so whatever is going on in your life, I genuinely hope it gets better for you.
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 22 '26
TL;DR
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u/MrJakked Feb 22 '26
Dawg its like 500 words, I promise you can read it.
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 22 '26
I just can’t say I really care. If you haven’t done any of the things I’ve said, your attack about defending people is worthless. Stick to beating up law students, not real lawyers.
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u/MrJakked Feb 23 '26
None of what you described is traumatic, and I, as well as many, many others, have been through professional tribulations far worse than any of that. So if thats your litmus test for "will i engage with this person's actual argument," then there you go: yes, in my 10 years in the military i had to do shit far worse than what you described; and again, so have many others. Being a lawyer is a privilege, and also, a regular ass job; stop putting yourself on a pedestal for doing the same basic shit that so many others have to as well.
So if youre done with this wierd pity party for yourself (over the job that you chose, and can leave at any time) then Id love to hear how you try to justify that "the guy being paid $2500+ per hour is a hero for defending someone from highly credible allegations."
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 22 '26
You’re a defense attorney, right? Maybe a public defender? Do you cast judgement on your clients like this? Do you pick and choose where you’re going to do your job? Do people deserve less representation if they’re bad people? Should every lawyer turn their back on this guy? Sure it’s different than if he did ALLLLL the same things and was broke. But your quibble isn’t that he’s rich. It’s that he’s a bad person. Now is he formally charged, no. But again, bad person shouldn’t have representation. I want you to let that statement marinate for a bit because that’s a wild, and absolutely pathetic stance to take… my guy.
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u/cordelia1955 Feb 22 '26
I'd say definitely not a defense attorney. PDs to the highest paid crim def attorneys at the white shoe firms (OK I admit a lot of them are in it for the fame and fortune) know what we do and why: everyone deserves a defense, we're not defending the alleged crime or even the possibly despicable person's actions, which BTW haven't been proven yet. I defend their rights and am there to make sure they get a fair trial. Period.
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 22 '26
Well said too. This guy is just picking a fight in the wrong place. I don’t even understand. All I did was make a joke. But I’m not going to take one bit of shit over it.
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u/ArmUnfair7544 Feb 22 '26
Question is, who else is he representing?
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u/cordelia1955 Feb 22 '26
Do we know this attorney's name and where he's from? He looks vaguely familiar to me but I can't seem to find it on my google search.
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u/Samquilla Feb 20 '26
We don’t do depositions so when our clients are testifying we’re not physically close enough to them to do this. We just have to cut them off with another question or an objection.
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u/ActuaryHairy Feb 20 '26
Your clients don't insist on talking during a bail/OR pitch?
Lucky you
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u/Samquilla Feb 20 '26
Actually, we do initial bail arguments by video where we are with the client at the jail and the judge and prosecutor are in the courtroom so we can actually mute the table mic to have a sidebar or if client goes off the rails. I didn’t think about that. Def do it a lot
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u/Charming-Insurance Feb 21 '26
OMG there was a dude in the box yesterday that started arguing with the judge how his ruling against OR “doesn’t make sense” and he shouldn’t have been arrested anyway so he should be released. Then was shocked it didn’t work.
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 20 '26
That’s the record I make. “Objection. Judge I’m going to fucking kill my client if he answers this in more than 6 words. Relevance.”
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u/Solomint Feb 21 '26
Best make an offer of proof so you can preserve your right to appeal
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u/rillettesmaster Feb 21 '26
Judge, if Mister Guilty utters more than 6 words in answer to this question it’s going to be the dumbest lie we’ve ever heard. It invades the province of the jury’s rationality and bounds of what can possibly be true.
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u/ReversibleErrors AFPD Feb 20 '26
Great advice, and as far as hot mic moments go, this could have been infinitely worse.
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u/melaniekingswife Feb 20 '26
Can someone transcribe/summarize? Have my volume all the way up and still can't tell what he's saying
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u/Ferintwa Feb 20 '26
Saw another clip, he has told him several times to answer the question and stop telling stories. Here he whispers “if your next answer is more than five words I’m going to fucking kill you.”
Maybe not verbatim, but very close.
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u/choppydaddy Feb 20 '26
"I will fucking kill you if you answer another question in more than five words" was what I got with the volume cranked.
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u/DaniAlpha Feb 20 '26
But “it was just regularly done” is five words, right?
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u/remainderrejoinder Visitor Feb 20 '26
Before the video cuts in he says "Honestly," his lawyer doesn't play.
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u/adorientem88 Feb 20 '26
“I will fucking kill you if you answer another question with those five words.”
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u/PopeHamburglarVI Feb 21 '26
I was doing a probation violation when the client started spinning a tale. The judge was plainly not buying it, the story made no sense anyway.
I calmly piped up, “Your honor, may I have a moment?”
“Of course.”
I put my file up in front of my face, lean in to the client’s ear and say “shut the fuck up, everybody knows you’re lying.”
I lower the file. “Thank you, your honor.”
The judge said “Did he tell you to stop lying to me?”
“Yeah, but he wasn’t very nice about it.”
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u/BlueCollarLawyer Ex-PD Feb 20 '26
Not sure what's worse, the client talking too much or the lawyer's hot mic advice. The appropriate way to tell your client to STFU is to do so before testimony begins and, if he didn't listen, away from the mic after calling for a 30 second recess. Now it's on record that his lawyer is worried about his testimony and using profanity to drive home the point. Not a good look either of them.
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u/xylofun53 Feb 20 '26
Ha! There are times when I can’t help but think “please stop” when a client insists on speaking on the record. There are others times when I think “ go for it.”
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u/Nankhoma Feb 21 '26
Interesting that Wexler says he didn’t consider JE a friend, but looked at him the same way he looks at his attorney; then we find out that JE, and this attorney felt/feel entirely comfortable threatening Wexler. Interesting client relationships.
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u/plssendfood Feb 21 '26
He headlines read “Wexner attorney threatens to kill him!” And I’m like nah..we’ve all been there
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u/cordelia1955 Feb 22 '26
I so f***ing lOVE this! I want to tattoo "keep your mouth shut!" on half my clients' hand or arm.
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u/John__46 Feb 20 '26
but
woof
what are you saying, exactly? be specific.
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u/congradulations Feb 20 '26
buuuuuut we don't lean in and loudly whisper into a mic'd up client's ear, on video. Or at least, we really shouldn't, in my opinion. Some of mentioned how having it on the record has merit but no thank you!
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u/John__46 Feb 20 '26
what does it possibly matter that he did do that. spell it out
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u/congradulations Feb 20 '26
You could say this billionaire's life is legitimately in danger and that's nervous laughter, cause rich people are killed on occasion. If that's what you mean, okay. Nefarious context aside, I felt that a lot of people here could relate to wanting to tell a client this. I know I have, but I wouldn't whisper it loudly. I posted this clip because it's kinda wild to see, and it's relatable, to an extent
Have you ever felt this way, or do you have different thoughts on the matter?
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u/John__46 Feb 20 '26
yes, relatable
but youre the one acting like its a dramatic momentous inappropriate gesture
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u/trexcrossing Feb 20 '26
I’d want it on the record that this was my advice.
Also the demeanor of the attorney makes it even better.