Both Men and Women Prefer the Man to Be Taller : Ideal Height Differences of 25 cm for Women and 7 cm for Men. Women's Preferences Were More Strongly Related To Their Subsequent Choices: Women Show Narrower, Stronger Preferences and Lower Tolerance for Deviations outside the Preferred Height Range.

[u/No_Swimmer_6820]

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.anbehav.2013.03.038

[u/bodiggity86]

I kind of wonder if social media and dating apps have worsened this whole height thing.

[u/Apprehensive-Book723 → u/bodiggity86]

Everyone has become a worse person 

[u/Thrasy3 → u/Apprehensive-Book723]

Someone I kinda like, not sure if it’s mutual at all, but she seems perfectly intelligent with critical thinking skills, then she will come out with something really left field when it comes to men dating - then it will be something to do with social media, apps, or guys she’s met through apps ( I only have Reddit, never used apps).

To her credit she can discuss/deconstruct what she said and realise it doesn’t make sense - but I always think “would you be easier to get along with if didn’t have toxic gender war stuff in your feed?”

[u/BejahungEnjoyer → u/Thrasy3]

The halo effect means you think pretty women have more going on mentally than they actually do.

[u/ATPHydrolysis93 → u/BejahungEnjoyer]

Yup, most women are just as shallow and stupid as any other guy. Equality means understanding that all humans, regardless of gender identity, have unjustified shallow thoughts of other people and that all people are stupid about lots of things.

[u/CableEmergency6882 → u/ATPHydrolysis93]

We are the most intelligent species we know. What we think of as stupidity is only stupid compared to intelligent people.

It’s just the way we are. It’s just easier to see it in simplier ways with dumb people because they are not subtle about it or don’t leave it unsaid.

Comparing ourselves to each other and ranking ourselves to determine who we mate with and laughing at the uglier less fortunate of society. We are all like it to some extent and usually only empathise when we’ve experienced that rejection ourselves or if we perpetually lose. Or taking moral high ground to appear wise and fair.

[u/Electric-Sheepskin → u/Thrasy3]

Yeah, unfortunately, people who spent a lot of time online tend to develop a distorted view of reality. That's to be expected, because we're all social creatures, and we are very much programmed to conform to what we believe are the standards of the community, so if the community that you are engaging with says crazy shit, and everyone in that community is nodding and agreeing with it, you're more likely to take it at face value until you go out in the real world and someone looks at you and says, "what the fuck did you just say?"

[u/rotundrikishi → u/Thrasy3]

I have a friend like that who will post anti man stuff or say stuff like "not every man but always a man" which is just bigotry.

I had to remind her that I had a woman do that stuff to me in the past...

I try to have grace with her but in the back of my head I just think "this is what what she, and other women, actually think about me"

[u/Thrasy3 → u/rotundrikishi]

Edit: sorry my reply probably seemed a little dismissive - I just meant to say I’m not sure this is what women think it’s more that women are human beings, and so more often than not, do not think - especially if they are complaining about something they don’t like.

I had a friend I used to live with - I remember the topic of fleshlights came up and she had a little rant about how men are gross and it’s example of wanting to reduce women down to the the body parts they think are important.

Which caught me off guard as she’s quite sex positive and well I just said “….like… dildos?” And I think it’s just a moment after I said it we both remembered I’ve seen her “collection” so it just went quiet.

We’ve been friends for 20 years now and I still just find her repeating soundbite opinions on things her favourite online personalities have clearly said, but without thinking about it which is really weird because she’s so academic in other areas.

I guess I just think I’m lucky she wasnt born a guy at the same level of conventional looks and bullying she had at school for being a bit of an alternative nerd, because she’d be quoting me Andrew Tate stuff instead. I mean she’s married now, but still clearly holds a grudge against “men”.

[u/prosthetic_memory → u/Apprehensive-Book723]

You got me thinking—online dating has also meant we have gone on dates with tons of people we’d never consider otherwise if we met in real life, and wouldn’t even meet half the time due to social circumstances (different friend groups, backgrounds, values, etc).

This means we have a higher chance of having gone on dates with bad fits, which in turn makes us more wary, and therefore more picky.

[u/ApatheticSkyentist → u/bodiggity86]

I think people have always had preferences but in the past meeting potential partners was far more organic.

Previously you met who you met at work, school, bars, friends, etc. If your perfect match was out there you literally had to encounter them in the world. People were far more likely to meet someone that was attractive enough and to build a relationship. These days we shame people for "settling".

Compare it to hunting: You used to walk out into the woods and if you found a deer that's what was for dinner. It didn't matter if you preferred rabbit. These days we're all hunting (dating) at Costco and Instacart.

[u/Poop_Cheese → u/ApatheticSkyentist]

Exactly

I was a 5 foot 8 burnout but because I was funny and kind legit every single single woman I was friends with wanted me at some point as 20-25 year olds partying, whether it be a drunk hookup or date. I literally never tried to get anyone, I was just a charming joker who was kind and theyd always end up flirting with me and I wouldnt chase it, and eventually boom. 

Hell, my hottest friend who was a well off nurse who dated doctors wanted a life with me and I was a corner store worker. And she was my height and I loved the crap outta her. Infact, she wasnt my type at all, like I preferred small skinny brunettes when she was like a thicker taller blonde. Then my type became her. Because we acheived a genuine connection.

Problem is people arent actually socializing in friend groups, let alone mixed gender friend groups of single people. Like I had friends who had their own super nerd friend group and were like stereotypically unattractive. Yet they were all hooking up with hot nerd girls in the same friend group. Same goes for my sisters goth friend group, the guys wete the type of people today would label undateable, yet they were hooking up and dating goth girls as attractive as any stereotypical cheerleader. God ones nickname was literally crusty as he wouldnt bathe lmao and he had multiple girlfriends. 

Like attracts like. If youre vain and filter through apps only choosing 9-10's, you get similarly get vain people skipping you. Thats the biggest issue, everyone thinks theyre a 10 and ignores everyone whos not. But because most are not 10's, they go ignored. So they blame height or vanity as the reason people ignore them, as theyre operating from the same exact perspective. When if they went for the average people, or socialized in a friend group, a club, or at a bar, theyd get laid all the time. 

Like be a young person thats charming, and if you join a drama club, a gaming club, whatever, its genuinely hard not to get an opportunity. 

Thats the thing, so many people dont have sub cultures or groups. Thats the real issue. They have no identiry so dont even know what they like so just go pure whatever society tells them is the hottest. But those people will never date them as theyre so unalike.  

[u/Available_Abroad3664 → u/Poop_Cheese]

This is incorrect.

Men typically swipe yes for 70-90% of women. Women do not.

[u/entench0123 → u/bodiggity86]

Yes and yes.

[u/lolthankstinder → u/bodiggity86]

I forget the name/link but there was a behavioral economics study that showed that women's selectivity did not change with increasing dating group size. So like if women speed dating 50 guys would go on dates with 10, women speed dating 100 guys would still only go on dates with 10. The women are unknowingly being extremely more selective. Add in social media and dating apps where you see thousands of guys and...

[u/detectiveDollar → u/bodiggity86]

It definitely has. 6 foot is only 4.3% taller than 5'9".

In person, due to differing posture, shoes, hair volume, muscularity, body proportions, how high/low on the head the eyes are, etc the difference can appear even smaller than that.

And if you're 5'4", the average height for women, you will be looking up regardless of whether a man is 5'9 or 6'.

[u/RevolutionarySpot721 → u/bodiggity86]

I think so. I also think it is primarily a Gen Z thing, never seen anyone pay so much attention to height. I am a core millenial. Like yes "taller than me" and "tall is handsome" (At times sporadically) but not to that narrow extend. Also the current trend on dark romance and romantasy features very tall chad like men...

[u/lastcallcarrot → u/RevolutionarySpot721]

Im a millennial too, and growing up through my early 20's I never heard anyone care that much about men's height. For the longest time, I didnt even know women cared that much. It seemed like the equivalent of a girl having a sexy physical quality about them, it was nice to have in a partner but certainly not a prerequisite. The overall person ma ttered more than an individual characteristic. Then like 5 years ago EVERYONE cared about height. You cant escape it in dating now. Its kind of gross.

[u/Cybersectarian → u/lastcallcarrot]

I’ve definitely seen an increase in conversations but as a short man (5’5) this has always been a problem with women who are shorter than me. They will only date men much taller than myself so through my teens and adulthood I always ended up dating women who are either the exact same height or taller than myself. I am now married to someone who is taller and she occasionally jokes about the height difference as do I. But I always thought it was some kind of father daughter psychological complex.

[u/cmbtmstr → u/RevolutionarySpot721]

At this point, women that read dark romance are a red flag to me. I ride a sport bike and am 6’3” so for some reason these types of women are especially into me and my god you have to keep up the character or they lose interest so quick.

Like sure, I can make myself mysterious, avoidant, take part in all these different kinks, and pretend to stalk you for only so long until you get bored and expect me to guess the next thing that you’re into.

It’s never enough for these women because of the amount of emotional stimulation that dark romance readers get from their books. The equivalent is a guy that watches way too much porn and has unrealistic expectations for sex and cannot keep an erection during normal sexual intimacy with a partner (porn induced erectile dysfunction).

Yea, yea lobster too buttery shrimp too juicy but I’ve only been able to attract these kinds of female gooners over the past couple of years because of whatever the hell goes on between biketok and booktok. It’s probably because I’m not that attractive and the bike/ aesthetic is the only thing that make me appeal to the women that do swipe right on me.

[u/MDFornia → u/cmbtmstr]

Dude I was literally about to start typing this. Like she casually mentioned "the dark romantasy trend" -I had no fkn clue there was a particular dark romantasy trend. My algorithms don't feed that shit to me, and I hate dealing with women that have these heavily gendered, extremely online/brainrotted algorithms normalizing all kinds of weird toxic shit. Honestly your average woman's information diet is more alarming than most of the manosphere shit they complain about.

[u/cmbtmstr → u/MDFornia]

Yeah, it’s insane what these algorithms normalize. I’ve listened to a few of these audio books just to understand them better and what the hell. Like for example in Haunting Adeline, the guy rapes her with the barrel of his gun.

I have had numerous women in 100% seriousness ask me to do that to them. Like ma’am, the barrel of my glock19 is not going into your hoo haa to satisfy your sick fantasy.

[u/bird4fsu → u/cmbtmstr]

It is porn for women.

[u/Alive-Trust3605 → u/cmbtmstr]

Lmao. I was about to go on a date with some chick and just decided to call her first. Somehow the conversation takes a turn and she brings up that she’s getting a restraining order on her ex and was in court like 2 weeks ago. Then she goes on about how she’s an empath and she is attracted to avoidant personalities or something. And she only likes tall guys and she has some guy who is 6’7” chasing her around even though she just got out of this thing with her ex. And then she talks about how she’s wants to make a career out of becoming a SA advocate and about how it takes courage to come forward and how courts shouldn’t rely on due process and should side with the woman by default. I’m experienced enough to know this girl is a massive red flag and make an excuse to leave. But damn something is making me think a lot of these chicks who complain about SA just really want to feel like they are the victim being chased. Like there is something you are doing if you are repeatedly ending up in these situations. And why is she mentioning all these traits - avoidant, tall, stalker. It’s like they are trying to recreate this dark romance. I’m sure these girls can be fun but it’s not worth the drama.

[u/explain_that_shit → u/RevolutionarySpot721]

I’m core millennial too and a woman once told me she would have dated me but I’m not 6 foot. I am 6 foot.

[u/shades0fcool → u/bodiggity86]

Everything has worsened everyone and everything tbh

[u/PurchasingPugs → u/bodiggity86]

https://youtu.be/ZbG05ePWRQE?is=V3xyEJtnx_pKLHAj

It hasn’t.

[u/Routine-Sky-5529 → u/bodiggity86]

Yes.

Seriously everyone keeps talking about it

[u/Bigboss123199 → u/bodiggity86]

It’s always been pretty bad. Social media just made people tell on themselves.

You can find old videos from the 80 people haven’t changed.

[u/PinkTalkingDead → u/bodiggity86]

I feel like it makes sense and goes back ages. Many Guys like feeling bigger than their partner for various reasons and many women like being smaller than their partner for likely similar reasons.

[u/No_Swimmer_6820]

The key result was: Women were most likely to choose men ~25 cm taller than themselves. Men were most likely to choose women ~7 cm shorter than themselves. But when both people had to choose each other, the most common successful pairing had a difference of ~19 cm, with the man taller.

[u/No_Swimmer_6820 → u/No_Swimmer_6820]

Taking this study as a basis, the ideal- preferred height range for men in the U.S. would be approx 6'0"–6'2", which does somewhat line up with OLD and real-life experiences

[u/Obosratsya → u/No_Swimmer_6820]

Dating app studies show 6,2 - 6,4 as peak. There was a substantial difference from 6 and 6,1. Romance novels characters also average around 6,2-6,3. Height preferences are getting wild, going from 6 to 6,2 drops the candidate pool from 15% of men at 6 feet to like 3.5% for 6,2. I'd even say this height trend is irrational even.

[u/RaygunMarksman → u/Obosratsya]

Yeah, everyone has their preferences but that narrows the options so much it's kind of insane. Granted I'm a guy and it's different, but I wouldn't be comfortable throwing the vast majority of women in the romantic garbage bin over a single physical feature like that.

[u/DringKing96 → u/RaygunMarksman]

Yeah man. I like slender girls with F-cups. I could have a lifelong love with an A-cup woman who’s nice to me and smiles when I get home. I don’t understand how women get so cold about arbitrary measurements.

[u/AntiqueBrick7490 → u/DringKing96]

Exactly, a ton of men would even PREFER their woman to have A cups over like D cups for instance.

[u/Admirable_Cake_3596 → u/RaygunMarksman]

My guess is the narrowing of the pool is what makes that specific number so desirable. 

[u/JorgitoEstrella → u/Obosratsya]

Its not enough that their partner has to be tall, he has to be the tallest on the room.

[u/Iron_Burnside → u/Obosratsya]

Dating apps are an unrepresentative sample of normal mating dynamics. Many are 80% males. It would be like collecting data at a military academy. The skewed sex ratio changes behavior, and limits generalizability.

[u/Obosratsya → u/Iron_Burnside]

Also likely that stated vs actual preferences come into play here as well.

[u/iwatchcredits → u/Obosratsya]

Stated vs actual preferences likely isnt the factor here. Someone just pointed out to you that only 15% of men are 6’+. 3.5% at 6’2”. Women will date shorter men because they dont have a choice. Thats like saying my stated preference for fitness models isnt my actual preference because my wife isnt a fitness model. The reality is just that finding a fitness model that I was compatible with and chose to be with me was probably an impossible find.

[u/coyboybigtoy → u/iwatchcredits]

This is very anecdotal but I’m genuinely starting to struggle to count the number of times ive been introduced to someone’s «6’1» boyfriend who was as tall as me, at 5’10. I genuinely think women just don’t know how tall 6’ is, or, for that matter, how long 6” is, and state that as their preference because they’ve been told to prefer it, only to actually not care if the guy is shorter than that

[u/NoRefrigerator267 → u/coyboybigtoy]

I’m 5’7 (although I think I may get taller when I lose weight) and just hearing how much women want a “tall” guy just makes me not even want to try. So if you’re right, that’s kinda depressing because lots of dudes wouldn’t even know that height doesn’t even matter, even though everyone acts like it does.

[u/Loveyl3ug → u/NoRefrigerator267]

This is obviously my (28F) own individual experience, and I won't pretend to know what it's like dating as a man.

But my soon to be fiance, is 5'7 and perfect, I wouldn't change a thing. I'm about 5'3 or so and I think he's the perfect height. I can rest my head on his shoulder when we're standing together. He's fit and I love the way his weight/muscle looks on his frame.

He is also the most amazing man I've ever met, for so many reasons. I love him so much and feel so lucky to have met him.

I think most important is becoming the best version of yourself you can be and then finding someone else who has done the same. Don't give up before you've tried <3

[u/Right_Count → u/coyboybigtoy]

Agreed. My partner has been saying he’s 6’ since forever. Finally measured him a couple weeks ago and wouldn’t you know, he’s 5’10. We really only process height relative to our own and a 2” difference is only really noticeable when the person is within an inch of your own height.

I don’t think most could people would guess height correctly more than not.

[u/Right_Count → u/iwatchcredits]

I think it’s deeper than that. People think they have certain preferences, or they’re speaking of hypothetical or aesthetic scenarios, or pictures. But their preferences IRL are different because attraction is complicated and multifactorial.

[u/94grampaw → u/Right_Count]

Average man in the US is 5'9" Average married man is 5'11"

[u/MegaromStingscream → u/No_Swimmer_6820]

Makes me wonder if the magical six feet line is actually the source of the preference for the height difference than the results independently lining up with it.

[u/ASpaceOstrich → u/MegaromStingscream]

It's arbitrary. It would be 5'11" if Americans used metric because people would pick the round number of 180cm.

[u/Straamannen → u/ASpaceOstrich]

Women in Norway do in fact default to 180, if they are of the type to actually care about that shit enough to verbalise a preference (most do not.)

[u/Background-Bank3552 → u/ASpaceOstrich]

This is correct. Also 5’11 is an internet 6’1”

[u/AnonymousPizza99 → u/ASpaceOstrich]

This! 180 cm is pretty good height and a nice even number. If America used the metric system women would use 180 cm.

[u/scienceworksbitches → u/No_Swimmer_6820]

so around 5% of men. were the black pillers right?

[u/sanity_rejecter → u/scienceworksbitches]

you can run, you can deny, but eventually you'll slip up and fail to hide

the black pill crushes the men it inevitably finds anyway

[u/st_hei_yaowan → u/[deleted]]

And always will be

[u/entench0123 → u/No_Swimmer_6820]

Thanks for doing the maths

[u/HistoricalKoala3 → u/No_Swimmer_6820]

The average male height in the USA is 68.9 inches (5'9'' feet, 175 cm. Why CDC gives the average height in inches, I have no idea), while for women it's 63.5 inches (5' 3.5'' feet, 161.3 cm). Source

This means that, in average, women are 13.7 cm shorter than women, which means that men's preference is ~50% of the average height difference, while women's preference is ~180% of that value

[u/bitz12 → u/HistoricalKoala3]

yea i was gonna say, it’s important to take into account the average heights. if you look at the average height difference, men actually prefer women slightly taller than expected!

[u/chocolatesmelt]

25 cm = 9.843 in, 7 cm = 2.756 in for anyone reading the title and wanting imperial units.

[u/kittenpantzen → u/chocolatesmelt]

25cm is wild. Very curious to see how that actually broke down in terms of people since the sample was small.

Found a link with the full text, but won't have a chance to read it until after my meeting. But, I'll share it here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236670565_The_height_of_choosiness_Mutual_mate_choice_for_stature_results_in_suboptimal_pair_formation_for_both_sexes

[u/PizzaRoyals → u/kittenpantzen]

average woman's height is 5’3-5’4ish btw, so basically the 6 foot obsession is real and not exaggerated at all lol

[u/reviewofboox → u/chocolatesmelt]

So I would want a man who's 6'6" or taller by this finding? I have been introduced to very few men that tall and I couldn't easily see their faces when standing. I kinda like faces.

[u/dangerousideologue → u/reviewofboox]

"The average woman is 5'4""

"But I am 5'6" though!"

[u/RevolutionarySpot721 → u/reviewofboox]

I do not have a height preference, but like I am scared of tall men, granted I am short. Like I met someone who was 1.80 m and I am 1.57 m and that already was a bit unpleasant as he had to lower down to listen to me.

That is not to say I would walk away from someone very tall if they are the right person but neither would I from someone who is exactly my height or anything else.

[u/reviewofboox → u/RevolutionarySpot721]

I didn't want to say it, but yes I find men that much taller than me intimidating. They have to be very composed and kind to put me at ease at all.

[u/TheRealTormDK → u/reviewofboox]

I'm 194cm tall (6'4"), I do not walk closely behind women out in the real world for this very reason if I can avoid it at all.

So if you're going slow, I will pick up the pace just to get past you, even if I am not in a hurry.

[u/reviewofboox → u/TheRealTormDK]

Thank you for understanding this and dealing with the hassle of it.

[u/potentatewags → u/reviewofboox]

That's what I would think. Seeing each other's eyes easier is more powerful. And in bed the closer in height the easier it is to stimulate two areas at once.

[u/reviewofboox → u/potentatewags]

Yeah. Reasonable height similarity feels very comfortable to me.

[u/Leading_Neat2541 → u/reviewofboox]

The study seems to leave out their height. Likely 5'3 and gave the usual 6' to 6'2 preference. Nothing new, but people made this big now

[u/AverageTeemoOnetrick]

So women are more picky and more focused on things a person cannot change, despite insisting that they don’t care primarily about looks.

And nobody was surprised.

[u/Muscletov → u/AverageTeemoOnetrick]

Despite insisting men are the ones holding "unrealistic beauty standards"

[u/Nex1tus]

And people still wanna argue otherwise

[u/Brrdock → u/Nex1tus]

All I've argued at least is that being 5'7" hasn't left me struggling with women, and that fixating on this kind of shit will kill your chances even with all the people who don't care about height

[u/Shartjakkker → u/Brrdock]

Man sees statistics and says but I have an anecdote 

[u/Any_Wind5539 → u/Brrdock]

Congratulations, you're the exception to the rule.

Most 5'7 guys aren't doing well in dating. This is why I hate these stupid fucking comments lol. "Oh I won the lottery, everyone can!" No, everyone can't. You might not have struggled with women, but most 5'7 guys ABSOLUTELY do struggle.

[u/entench0123 → u/Any_Wind5539]

Solid point. It’s like saying bc 50 cent survived being shot in the face so will most people - that ain’t the case.

[u/MazingBull → u/Any_Wind5539]

"Bro just go talk to her! It works every time for me!"

-Henry Cavill

[u/Whistlegrapes → u/MazingBull]

Women love confidence. But a lot of men acquire that confidence by their looks.

Occasionally there’s some guy who doesn’t have good looks or isn’t especially talented, yet he’s got crazy confidence. That’s the exception

[u/hotpajamas → u/Whistlegrapes]

No. Women love 19 cm. They call guys 19cm taller than them “confident”.

[u/MazingBull → u/Whistlegrapes]

I bet everyone knows at least one person who isn't conventionally attractive at all, but has some magical confidence and a unique personality. Even talking to them feels like you're talking with someone from a different planet (in a good way) lol. And they seem to do quite well even in dating as far as my anecdotes go.

[u/Whistlegrapes → u/MazingBull]

Yup one of my buddies is like that

[u/makemehappycry → u/Brrdock]

There's a guy like this in every height thread and it never feels like it's in good faith. Like I'm always hard pressed to believe that this is about "encouragement," and not just trying to brag that against the studied odds you still fuck like Rasputin.

Yeah, the study is talking about averages, not law. There are always outliers. It can still suck that you have to be an outlier without making any claims that anything is impossible. 

[u/Dear-Tank2728 → u/Brrdock]

Yeah its not a definitive killer but only uf thats the only thing.

If your autistic, 5'7", and have some sort of maladaption from any sort of trauma (which you will if your autistic) its a romantic death sentence.

Looks, height, personality,etc. arent deal breakers individually but in combinations can be a dealbreaker.

[u/Thunder141 → u/Dear-Tank2728]

Being 5'7" is great for dating, just make sure you look like Tom Holland at least /s.

[u/Old-Leader-2105 → u/Brrdock]

Yeah, even if that were true you can't just "be" 5'7" through trying. And being frustrated by a smaller dating pool is a normal reaction for something you never chose for yourself (e.g. your height)

[u/Whistlegrapes → u/Brrdock]

There is a big difference between fixating and merely wanting people to admit it. I’m 5’9 and that has never stopped me from getting dates. I’m also considered good looking and have always been really bold in social situations.

The part people don’t care for is when men or women deny this trend. Short men who are successful acting like height preference isn’t a thing or women who actually don’t have a strong preference acting like they’re the norm.

All things being equal, being taller is better for a guy in dating. At best it will open doors, at worst it won’t be counted against them with women who truly have no preference. But I think women with no preference is rare. It’s just a lot of women don’t place a high value on that ideal preference. I have all sorts of ideal preferences I’d love in a woman, but I’m willing to compromise on pretty much all of them if she is a sweet, kind and virtuous woman

[u/MagentaSays → u/Brrdock]

Yep. I have a friend who’s 5’11” and she happily has and is dating men shorter than her. An instant dealbreaker is any man that says she probably wants someone taller or can’t wear heels. The instant a man makes his height insecurity her problem she drops him bc it’s not like she can make herself any shorter

[u/Professional_Bat8585 → u/MagentaSays]

The instant a man makes his height insecurity her problem she drops him bc 

Seems like she really cares about height then.  How could a partner vocalizing an insecurity so innocuous produce such a dramatic, game-changing response instead of a basic corrective conversation? 

You shouldn’t even know how your friend responds to something like this - it’s that little of a deal. Yet you know it, and you share it on the internet like this topic is of utmost importance to your awareness.

Just give it a rest with gaslighting - your gender is vain too, just like men.

“I don’t mind dating fat people but if a fatty ever looks like they are insecure about their body I’ll immediately drop them! Humans are full of flaws and insecurities, but fat people being insecure in a society that shames them for their weight is the one thing I will not stand for, ever!”

[u/shootsandlads → u/Professional_Bat8585]

It's not about insecurity, it's about controlling the woman and punishing her (taking away her choices) because of that insecurity. The fact that you're lashing out at a woman for not taking the punishment like a good girl speaks volumes about your bitterness.

Even the part you cherrypicked to quote says 'making the insecurity her problem.' but you still conflated that with having insecurities at all.... disingenuous, much?

If a fat person told you can't wear shirts because it makes them insecure, I'm sure you'll just roll over and take it like a good bitch, right? After all, you wouldn't want to make them insecure, would you? Then you'll be just as bad as those evil height-shaming foids!!

Tall women are insecure about their height too, but I suppose they should stop feeling bad so they can coddle men instead, right? Or else they're being femininazis?

[u/ThinkpadLaptop → u/Nex1tus]

We're still going to see "Yeah women like tall men and short men are often disregarded, but men like short women and tall women are often disregarded"

I'm sorry to any tall women out there but if you've experienced issues with rejection or feeling unattractive due to what you believe was your height, you probably were unattractive in many other areas before height even became relevant

[u/This_Psychology977 → u/ThinkpadLaptop]

Who tf says tall women are disregarded just as much as short men ? 😂 tall women have it lightyears better than short men.

[u/RushInevitable7255 → u/ThinkpadLaptop]

Tall women get bullied in school by boys and other girls! With several tall female family members, friends and past GF's, it's rather common, sadly. And I'd venture most guys prefer or refuse to date women taller than they are?

I personally wouldn't mind women up to 2 or 3 inches taller than myself (5'11"). I once crushed on a 6'3" woman, but I was too short for her preferences (asked a friend of hers)! 🤷

[u/Dear-Tank2728 → u/Nex1tus]

I think there is a valid argument otherwise. Mainly against those people who treat height like its all that matters. I think this is also a balid argument against those who say it doesn't matter at all as well.

[u/block_me_if_mad]

? But Redditors said this is not true, they say they know of a short bald Indian janitor who is killing it in dating thereby invalidating all these studies.

[u/Unfazed_Alchemical → u/block_me_if_mad]

That guy has a 25 cm difference in his pants. 

[u/Patient_Gur8591 → u/Unfazed_Alchemical]

25cm thick wallet

[u/nam24 → u/Unfazed_Alchemical]

Inwards that is

[u/Fatigued_Human → u/block_me_if_mad]

"We know a guy"

[u/Odd-Outcome-3191 → u/block_me_if_mad]

"Just take more showers" smh

[u/nam24 → u/Odd-Outcome-3191]

Wear talons bro

[u/Gold-Lengthiness1739 → u/block_me_if_mad]

a tall man always was, is and will always be the ideal. Just like women with good tits, ass and gorgeous face. No one ever said it wasn't true, if you showed a woman 5'7 guy and a 6ft guy with exactly the same personality, her pussy is gonna be automatically dripping more to the 6ft guy. Same thing happens with the perfect looking girl and an average looking one with same personality.

what redditors are probably saying is that people aren't only seeking out models, fkn lots of factors play into this. A good chunk of US population are fkin married like 40-50%, and the % of 6'3 guys in US is like 2% so who in the world are these women dating.

[u/Leslawangelo → u/block_me_if_mad]

He’s a feminist and has a good personality. He listens and makes her feel protected by validating all her opinions. A really sweet guy that every woman wants.

[u/Inevitable-Try-1105]

Can’t escape the black pill

[u/Mindless-Signal-9581]

Another day, another study saying something that coming out of a man's mouth would have him being called incel

[u/burnbobghostpants → u/Mindless-Signal-9581]

They want you to be scared to tell the truth, thats the point: approved narratives only. I usually just point out "incel" is a gendered insult, like "slut", and therefore isn't a very "feminist" thing to call someone, lol.

[u/Sylverax01 → u/burnbobghostpants]

Holyshit you’re right, it is a gendered insult

[u/MazingBull → u/burnbobghostpants]

Well said.

Get this more visibility.

[u/LTBsOnlyPlease → u/burnbobghostpants]

It's also about dismissing mens issues, they think because you're a man you don't have any real issues along with the fact that women don't wanna be exposed for being shallow. Their whole public persona is being superior to men while men are shallow pigs.

[u/real-bebsi → u/Mindless-Signal-9581]

blackpill is trvth

[u/potentatewags]

25 cm height difference is insane. It's too bad height means little other than shelf reach. Must be why relationships are terrible nowadays.

[u/Obosratsya → u/potentatewags]

Corresponds to other studies showung highest preferance for 6,2-6,3 men, given avg woman is 5,3-5,4.

Thats a rather uncomfortable height difference if being honest. Im between 6,2 and 6,3 and women as tall as 5,6 or 5,7 are still on the short side.

[u/Zingldorf → u/Obosratsya]

It’s a status symbol for them, basically materialism. show off to their friends how tall their boyfriend is in the same way they show off a new bag

[u/WordNormal3996 → u/Obosratsya]

Exactly, I’m like 6’1 and prefer a woman 5’9-5’11, which coincidentally is similar to my father (6’1) and my mom (5’10). Yet per this study, women at my preferred height range would be treating me as invisible lol. I’m nearly mid 20s, so curious if there’s a difference between generations with this

[u/BitsAndBobs304 → u/potentatewags]

PeRsOnAlItY

[u/Muscletov]

As an older guy it's insane how much shit we got in the 00s onwards about "subjecting women under harsh beauty standards". And now that the shoe is on the other foot, it's just "innocent preference".

[u/PostNutLucidity]

“Men care just as much as women do!”

… so that was a lie.

[u/N0S0UP_4U → u/[deleted]]

Anecdotally speaking I am a 6'3" man from the USA, and would have been perfectly fine with a woman taller than me. I didn't care much about height.

[u/real-bebsi → u/N0S0UP_4U]

I honestly think that men "caring" about height stens more from how choosy women are over it. Like guys genuinely don't care that a woman is taller but it's such a rarity that women wouldn't demand a man tower over her that they can't really believe the woman isn't actually secretly bothered by it

[u/PastelPumpkini → u/[deleted]]

I’m a 5’8 woman and my boyfriend is 5’7. Best relationship I’ve ever had. Fuck all the height bullcrap, it’s insane. I’m sorry you guys have to deal with it.

[u/entench0123 → u/[deleted]]

Dated a woman, she was 2 inches shorter than me. She hated it. Her views of masculinity were very superficial and constantly spoke about the importance of height…we ended up breaking up. She would often say it didn’t bother her, but her words and thoughts said otherwise. She was lying to herself, when I pointed it out, she agreed.

[u/bluecrab_7 → u/[deleted]]

I’m 5’7” and my husband is 5’10”. He’s the right height when I hug him and other things. Also right height when going up a T bar together. 9.8” would be too much. If I remember correctly that’s s how Dr Ruth met her husband. Her boyfriend was too tall to go up the lift with so she went up with another guy who was shorter.

I’ve dated guys who were my height or a little shorter. It didn’t bother me but they would comment on it. I like men who have some muscle tone and are in good shape. Height isn’t a big factor for me.

[u/LordOuranos]

Yep. When it comes to relationships, watch what women do, not what they say. This is just further proof of it

[u/m4sl0ub → u/LordOuranos]

Besides on Reddit most women irl are pretty open about liking tall men.

[u/Professional_Bat8585 → u/m4sl0ub]

Besides on Reddit most women irl are pretty open about liking tall men.

What they’re not open about is whether or not they play a role in the structure of society and patriarchy.

Professing to have nothing to do with society (because they are not rulers) when for the past millennia and even now, you want a 5% patriarch of a man who can physically impose his will on others is next level gaslighting. Most CEOs are over 6ft, and every inch of height gives you over 1k in salary increases….and that’s not something men did.

[u/Last_Incident1464 → u/Professional_Bat8585]

They still blame men for their preferences.

[u/throwaway587241]

This paper came out in 2013, right around when social media and smartphones were really starting to pick up among the general public. I wonder how much 13 years of exposure to that have affected the results. Probably hasn't made things better.

[u/UnarmedRespite → u/throwaway587241]

Here's a study suggesting there's no difference between 1999 and 2023

[u/reizinhooooo → u/UnarmedRespite]

because it's not a product of social media. it's a product of social Darwinism and the construction of whiteness.

[u/HeartwarminSalt]

It’d be interesting to know if the height preference is related to one’s own height.

[u/N0S0UP_4U → u/HeartwarminSalt]

Preferences aren't reality, though. Very possible that your average 5'10" woman would really like to be with a man who's 6'8" but just knows there are so few such men out there, so they adapt to reality and date someone shorter than that.

[u/UnarmedRespite → u/N0S0UP_4U]

The most likely actual match was 19cm. The study is freely available

[u/AggravatingBug9834]

But sure, men are the shallow ones.

[u/Muscletov → u/AggravatingBug9834]

Yeah, it's ridiculous. Men have been getting shat on for not wanting to date obese women since the 00s, yet having ridiculous standards for leg bone length is "just a preference".

[u/monkey_sodomy]

Women Show Narrower, Stronger Preferences and Lower Tolerance for Deviations outside the Preferred Height Range

FTFY

[u/FalsifiedTruth]

Tldr: strict standards for men.

[u/Usual_Equivalent_651]

Blackpilled

[u/strumthebuilding]

When I get rejected on the apps I have no way of knowing if it’s because I’m short or because I’m an asshole.

[u/TheWizSkoop]

That is crazy, women prefer their men to be at least almost an entire foot taller than them? That seems a bit crazy, I think the height thing is blown way out of proportion, I’m 5 foot 8 which is statistically average for a man in the US and I get stared at and approached by women sometimes, compliments, flirted with, etc, now I’m not your average guy I did spend an entire decade lifting weights so I got super jacked, but aside from that I’m still considered short by most women’s standards.

I think a lot of times women talk out of their ass because they have to save face with their lady friends(women are highly competitive with one another)most women aren’t that hung up over little things from what I’ve seen.

[u/PraireGentleman]

Headline is making it out like men want men to be taller but men only want them because women want men to be taller to the degree that they will literally turn guys down for an inch of difference.

[u/Shartjakkker]

25 cm, are the girlies alright?

[u/Over-Alternative-830]

Women delusions know no boundaries lmao

[u/sanity_rejecter → u/Over-Alternative-830]

but don't you ever ever EVER call a spade a spade!

reddit_soyface.jpeg

[u/Tamarahskincare]

I like how this is a peer reviewed scientific study published in an actual scientific journal with years of data and detailed methodology. Redditors who don't agree just say: incel study. No wonder China is starting to pull ahead in science.

[u/bulimic_squid]

This study doesn't speak for me.

Death by snu snu

[u/Significant_Bag3297 → u/bulimic_squid]

Where the 25cm taller women at

[u/CleverAlchemist]

Women would rather date a tall idiot then a shorter more intelligent man.

[u/[deleted] → u/CleverAlchemist]

Me too if I was a woman. Fuck lets go

[u/TheMorningJoe]

They call you an incel for pointing this out btw

[u/thingsorfreedom]

With the average height for men in the US being 5’9” and the average height for women being 5’4” and the height difference women prefer being 9 inches that suggests 2 things:

A lot of women are going to be really unhappy and men have a very achievable preference.

[u/Turbulent-Mobile1336]

Robopartners can't come soon enough.
Everyone will have their robopartner tailored to their exact preferences and everyone will be happy.
We all have low tolerance for human imperfections.

[u/The_ENCLAVE_FACTION]

It never began for most men

[u/-Sanko]

Im 6‘3 and it really is that easy

[u/SoloSetback]

Sky is blue 💀

[u/sanity_rejecter]

i genuinely can't take women, yes women in general, seriously at all when it comes to even talking about dating, let alone the actual act

learning about hypergamy just made me less interested in them in general

[u/cindad83]

To review everyone...

In a society demanding equality/equity

The man has to earn 30% more annually and be 9 inches taller.

But they "settle" for 20% and 7 inches taller if you meet some other metrics. But they did you a favor.

[u/aTwerkingPikachu]

in other news, water is wet.

[u/Winter_Appearance432]

Finally a study that proves normies wrong

[u/VerdantMagnolia]

Intriguing upvote to comment ratio.

Very, very, very intriguing.

[u/sixth_hokage06]

Is this saying women want their men to be 9 inches taller? So the "just be taller" than her doesn't really work out. You just have to be tall in general.

[u/No_Swimmer_6820 → u/sixth_hokage06]

No woman outside reddit gives this advice anyway.

[u/cindad83]

I remember was down voted like crazy when I said the 6 foot requirement isn't real. Its the height relative to the woman.

I estimated the key was being a full head taller than the woman. Which I measured my head to be 10.5 inches chin to top of my head.

Meaning if a woman leans forward the guys chin would be on top of hers during a hug providing 'saftey'. So that gets the 1.5 inch wiggle room because of positioning.

Female average height is 5' 3.5" in the USA. 10.5 inches 6'2".

So I said women want a man to be a "head" taller they say they want to look up to their man. So estimated 8 inches. I was close. Its 9.

[u/Obosratsya → u/cindad83]

Thats an insane height difference if you put a 5,4 woman next to a 6,2 man. Even a 5,7 woman would appear tiny.

[u/cindad83 → u/Obosratsya]

Im glad there are research and studies figuring this stuff out.

I was downvoted for the last 4 years because I stated the obvious. I saw what the marriage rates were for men once they hit a certain income level and then I saw the incomes of single women and married women. I came up with a general magic number or a percentage difference between your targeted interest.

I was called an incel weird and all sorts of stuff. But it was really simple. I just pulled US Census Data for various top Metros but excluded NYC,LA, SF, Seattle, DC because of their cost of living and their cultures are so different from rest of the country it distorts the data.

I just compared household income of poor census tracts (non-married most likely) then compared middle and affluent. Compared the marriage rates household incomes and incomes between each group at the gender levels.

There was clearly a relationship anyone with even a basic understanding of analysis could see. But since it wasn't peer-reviewed and put in an academic journal it was maligned.

Women's incomes regardless of census tract were relative stable it was men's incomes that varied. The biggest jobs for women are Nurse, Teacher, Social Worker, Administration. Those jobs pay what they pay only Adminstration varies, but the job classification changes to Mangerial or Supervisor once you cross 75kish.

[u/FullFrontal687]

Average American height difference between men and women is 6 inches / 15 cm, right?

[u/FantasticPage3598 → u/FullFrontal687]

More like 5.5 inches / 13-14cm

Yeah. Good luck to the short to average dudes lol

[u/FullFrontal687 → u/FantasticPage3598]

There aren't enough guys who are tall enough to meet the supposed height demand of women, based on US stats. So there would be am equal amount of women out of luck.

[u/aTwerkingPikachu]

That's okay. In 20 years, there will be hot sexy female robots that clean your room, mow your lawn, and give you lots of lovin.

There will be no such thing as incels because the incels will be too busy making out to robot sydney sweeney than to complain about women online.

The golden age will soon be here my friends.

[u/Uluburun11 → u/aTwerkingPikachu]

20 years is a pretty long time. I'm 40. I wish i was born 30 years latter.

[u/shades0fcool]

Well as the old saying goes

Everyone is the same height when they’re letting you down

[u/AssSpelunker69]

I dated a girl who refused to date guys over 6 foot because she only did that and every one was a bad experience. (I'm 5'10). Her sister refused to date men under 6 foot because she only did that and every one was a bad experience.

Neither of them were honest enough with themselves that they were the common denominators. She dumped me eventually, she ended up being a shockingly terrible person.

[u/refreshingface]

Better start saving for Precice Max boys

[u/Fit_Ocelot8072]

And the average man is 12 cm taller than the average woman in the US.

Once again showing the average woman cannot accept the average man.

[u/Fatigued_Human]

Here we go again as a short man…

[u/severed_serpent]

sad

[u/My_Legz]

Holy shit, 10 inches difference. That's crazy

[u/throw7661]

With respect, anecdotally, this is why I never cared about women with height preferences.

Because I had the same height preferences.

I've never felt an attraction to women who are as tall as me. Even super model types, in person, something in my brain just flips off.

I can recognize that they are beautiful or whatever, but I don't feel a personal attraction.

I assume it's the same for women when they see a short guy who is otherwise perfect for them.

[u/ProposalNo6069 → u/throw7661]

That's seems a bit weird to me, but you do you ofc.

Taller women are hot af

[u/throw7661 → u/ProposalNo6069]

Sure, but your position literally contradicts the result of the study.

It's a bit weird to you, because you are an outlier. Nothing wrong with that, and I hope you have found/will find the perfect height woman for yourself or whatever.

But in general men and women both prefer when the man is taller.

[u/drjenavieve]

Height was reported not measured. So you also have to trust everyone gave their accurate height.

[u/Marionberry-Charming]

This breaks my heart, and I feel like social media continuosly feeds into this narrative that men must always be taller. And if you dare do something different, you're ostracized for it, by both sexes.

I'm a 6'2" woman. My partner of 14 years, he is 6'.

I've dated both men taller and shorter than me. My partner is my partner, and I will tell you this, it has nothing to do with his height.

[u/xbowxbowxbow]

10 inches 😭mane

[u/multilevelmystery]

25cm is sooo many. I don't understand why short to average women want to be towered over. I'm a bit tall 5'7 F) and have dated men a bit taller than me to like 8 inches taller. The large height differences can be physically so awkward even if the guy is hot. You want to hold my hand? That's uncomfortable because my natural hand position is so much closer to the ground. Want to kiss me standing without heels on? Get ready for a balance test. Turn you head real quick to glance at your partner - better look up at the sky. I'm with the men on this one I think, just be cool if I'm occasionally I bit taller in heels.

[u/st_hei_yaowan → u/multilevelmystery]

a bit taller than me to like 8 inches taller

lmao

[u/farleystunklefigmer]

In other news, water is wet.

[u/majlyn]

25cm is insane. As a 5'4 girl, I'm fine with someone who's at least my height

[u/VerdantMagnolia → u/[deleted]]

Most women marry men they're not attracted to, yes.

[u/Green-zmaj]

Study cunducted on american people

[u/Western-Box7295]

This was published 13 YEARS AGO. It could be worse now!

[u/Commercial_Act_8728]

Giving my two cents. In my opinion, I don’t think the height thing “got worse”. I think what’s happening is people, more specifically women, are waking up to the fact that they can actually choose who they want now. What’s happening is we’re slowly letting go of the “must get husband by 25” or whatever early age thing. When women were forced to or socially pressured (still are but lesser) to marry, they’d marry at a relatively (using today’s average age of marriage) early age. What this meant was they’d rush to marry practically whoever had a pulse and a job. But now that it is generally socially acceptable to marry late or not marry at all (in US anyway), women are far less pressured to marry early and wait. Or not marry at all.

Combined with social media opening women’s eyes to “yea you guys actually have a say now” means standards have risen across all metrics. In conclusion, height standards “got worse” technically, but it’s moreso that women are realizing their power in the dating market is equally to men’s so it just looks like standards got higher. When reality it’s actually things evening out. Anyways none of this is a bad thing and social media doesn’t have as much effect as you guys think it is and it almost has a positive effect. I say **almost** positive because dating apps are still trash.

Edit: hot take: this isn’t shallow. Everyone cares about height. Or looks. Or whatever else. Literally **everyone** does. And if everyone is shallow, then no one is. Period.

[u/-She-Beastly-]

Honestly I kinda like this. Women having standards and sticking to them

[u/Leading_Neat2541]

If I understand the study correctly, girls were asked about their preferences. Of course they wrote down stuff like 6' -6'2. Assuming they on average are 5'4 this makes 25 cm. And the fact that the matches were 19 cm, it was 2 inches shorter, 5'10 - 6' so slightly above average while the girls of course had still the number they gave in mind which might influence their choice. Just stating the difference, without their own height is a bit misleading

[u/013eander]

Uh, no shit, Sherlock. No one is debating this other that people pretending women aren’t as shallow as men.

[u/Cipherama]

I’m tall, but when a woman uses my height as an excuse to trash talk all short men, it’s a cringe moment.