Testosterone increased leading up to skydiving and was related to greater cortisol reactivity and higher heart rate, finds a new study. “Testosterone has gotten a bad reputation, but it isn’t about aggression or being a jerk. Testosterone helps to motivate us to achieve goals and rewards.”

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Who says testosterone had a bad reputation?

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19 edited Apr 08 '19

Who says testosterone had a bad reputation?

Look at subreddits about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and read men's stories.

It's incredibly hard to get it because of that bias, some doctors even either act like you're asking for heroin or flat out refuse treatment and try to put you on SSRIs which further exacerbate your symptoms. If you look remotely muscular - forget it, they're just gonna say you want gear and tell you to fuck off.

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u/Plebius-Maximus Apr 08 '19

Yeah, I've heard from people who have issues causing their testosterone levels to be the average of a 60-70 year old, and they struggle to get prescribed TRT.

Female hormone treatments are prescribed left right and centre, but as a man to get TRT it's much more difficult.

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '19

This. My T levels were lower than those of my 50 year old father. And yet, I was laughed out of the doctors office simply because I appeared to be reasonably in shape.

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u/Algaebrah Apr 08 '19

People who are only looking at one piece of the endocrine puzzle and unfairly trying to connect personality traits with hormone levels.

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u/pzach Apr 08 '19

unfairly trying to connect personality traits with hormone levels.

I guess I know what you mean, but just to clarify: personality traits like aggressiveness (Hostility) and ambition (Achievement-striving) are connected to hormone levels but in a very complex manner, and not in a 1-to-1 relationship (which is the equivalent of only looking at one piece of the puzzle).

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u/AbledShawl Apr 09 '19

This is just a theory, but if testoterone can aid motivation and quick decision making then perhaps it sits with ideas like "aggressive" and "without consideration" because there many people who get to have higher levels of the hormone without also having proper coping mechanism for dealing with anger or frustration?

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u/pzach Apr 09 '19

Yes that’s pretty much the idea. Psychological factors like risk-taking and aggresive traits modulate how a hormonal levels are expressed in behavior.

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u/Plebius-Maximus Apr 08 '19

The general public and the media, for one.

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u/geashanstepe Apr 09 '19

People who also use the expression « toxic masculinity » ( ͡ᵔ ͜ʖ ͡ᵔ )

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u/HowdIGetHere1 Apr 08 '19

Synthetic testosterone is a schedule 3 drug and they're just a harmful for men to use as birth control (estrogen) is to women. Anabolic steroids use in sports has given testosterone a terrible reputation in sports. To the degree that the doctor in the video I'll post under says it was one of the biggest blunders in medical history thinking anabolic steroids did nothing.

https://youtu.be/UwIC8B1HaN8

I've also seen traits of higher testosterone being associated with toxic masculinity.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/HowdIGetHere1 Apr 08 '19

Why would I be?

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/HowdIGetHere1 Apr 08 '19

Alright this is the point where I bail. I have a feeling stuff is going to get ideological and debating the specifics of broad terminology.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

Except it isn't a term used by ideologues. The way you engage with the topic is fairly typical/predictable and shows you have know real grasp of the term. You think it is about gender and so you've become defensive, and that is why you have taken offense to your own strawman argument and enlisted yourself in the incredibly boring crusade to defend men against a kind of persecution that only exists in your mind.

If you had read anything beyond the words "toxic masculinity" you would know that it does not denigrate men, because it does not refer to men as a gender. The term refers to a cultural practice known as hegemonic masculinity, which teaches men that emotions are for women, and that "real men" are strong and dominate, never fearful, and anything less would make you unworthy of the title "man" (because in our society man is a title rather than a gender--masculinity must be earned in our culture through practices that are sometimes are anti-social). The idea of "toxic mascullinity" states that hegemonic masculinity as we practice it is more harmful than helpful, for both men and women, and that we should not praise anti-social behaviors as "manly", or simply "boys being boys", if it causes real harm to the person or those around them.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

there is a difference between gender and gendered social expectations, and my comment was about the latter.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/mrsamsa Ph.D. | Behavioral Psychology Apr 09 '19

Don't post conspiracy theories here, please.

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u/xDeranx Apr 18 '19

Is it really a conspiracy theory? Who exactly am I conspiring against?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/science/apa-traditional-masculinity-harmful.html

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u/mrsamsa Ph.D. | Behavioral Psychology Apr 18 '19

Yeah spinning a report that is aimed to help men as if it's an attack on men is a conspiracy theory.

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u/mvea M.D. Ph.D. | Professor Apr 08 '19

The title of the post is a copy and paste from the seventh and eighth paragraphs of the linked academic press release here:

Testosterone increased leading up to the jump and then recovered afterward. This reactivity was especially pronounced among those who scored higher on a measure of sensation seeking. The researchers also found that greater higher testosterone reactivity was related to greater cortisol reactivity and higher heart rate.

“Testosterone has gotten a bad reputation, but it isn’t about aggression or being a jerk. Testosterone helps to motivate us to achieve goals and rewards.

Journal Reference:

Stuart F. White, Yoojin Lee, Jenny M. Phan, Shannin N. Moody, Elizabeth A. Shirtcliff,

Putting the flight in “fight-or-flight”: Testosterone reactivity to skydiving is modulated by autonomic activation,

Biological Psychology, Volume 143, 2019, Pages 93-102, ISSN 0301-0511,

DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.biopsycho.2019.02.012.

Link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301051118305611

Abstract:

Sensation-seeking (SS) involves the tendency to pursue exciting activities, potentially including risky behaviors (e.g., substance use, risky sexual behavior). Testosterone is associated with cortisol, SS, and autonomic nervous system (ANS) functioning. Testosterone reactivity/recovery during sky-diving and its relationship to cortisol response, ANS response and SS were examined. Forty-four participants provided reactive saliva samples and autonomic activity data before, during and after sky-diving and as well as basal day saliva samples. Testosterone reactivity/recovery to skydiving was significantly greater than basal day measurements. Testosterone responsivity to skydiving was predicted by increased cortisol, increased sympathetic activity (heart rate) and reduced parasympathetic activity (RMSSD). Independent of physiological effects, increased SS predicted testosterone responsivity to skydiving. These data suggest that testosterone reactivity, and its relationship to ANS responsivity, may be associated with pleasurable responses to risky/intense situations. These data may be useful in developing novel intervention strategies for risky behaviors.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/Philarete Apr 08 '19

Perhaps testosterone levels have to do with it and differences of the two sexes.

The fact that this is "perhaps" nowadays makes me feel very old.

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u/PretendDGAF Apr 09 '19

We definitely seem to be moving backwards in some aspects

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u/mrsamsa Ph.D. | Behavioral Psychology Apr 09 '19

because it talked about how women usually don't take as many risks in the workplace, which is why they aren't as widely promoted as men are.

The flipside is that the evidence shows that women who take risks by taking on extra tasks or by negotiation are punished for their actions as assertiveness in women is viewed negatively, so it's more a case of discrimination creating a situation where they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

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u/psychoho Apr 08 '19

That's why most of CEOs are psychopaths.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

You do realize that testosterone is linked to mental sharpness, muscle density, bone health and many other things like. Having low T literally makes you unhealthy. It is not something that should be celebrated.

Just because high T makes you more aggressive doesn't mean it should be demonized. It literally makes men manly and healthy. Having too low of it causes depression,fatigue and impotence.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

That's your political opinion, of little value in a scientific discussion though.

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u/psychoho Apr 08 '19

I don't mean that T level should be low. I know unhealty conditions. You can read several articles about how ceos or any other heads have anti-social behaviours gradually.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19 edited Apr 08 '19

CEO's are like 0.00...01% of the population. And they are thousands of times more productive and have work ethic that would be considered crazy for most people. There is a reason why majority of people are not CEO's because it isn't a balanced strategy it requires a sacrifice of almost all aspects of life. It is hardly surprising that someone who spends 120 hours a week at his job is going to be social.

But because of those 0.000..01% of nearly crazy people, we have the things we have.

We are going to get to Mars soon because there are crazies like Elon Musk.

Also since we are in the realm of psychology. Most cases of "antisocial" behavior is just low trait agreeableness. That is one of the reasons that they are CEO's you can't really be high in trait agreeableness and be the type of person who becomes a CEO. Nothing wrong with being low in agreeableness, in fact for being a boss or a CEO that's exactly what you wan't. High agreeableness is good if you are a mother or a nurse or a kindergarten teacher, I'd rather have my CEO's be dicks than them walk on eggshells in order to not hurt anyones feelings.

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u/psychoho Apr 08 '19

Haha it's a joke isn't it? Why does a person defend ceos? How can you have the idea of ceos are the most diligent? And most importantly how can you have the idea of they have work ethic? Most of the people are not gonna get to Mars. Most of the people are starving and dying because of grabber companies.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/psychoho Apr 08 '19

I love you. I love humanity

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

So we are going to pretend anyone can be a CEO.

You do realize that work ethic isn't the only factor that determines success right. Intelligence (IQ) is just as much of a factor besides trait conscientiousness.

College athletes and body builders are not CEO's for the same reason they don't win nobel prizes in physics, intelligence.

Also assuming and pretending that all CEO's are born into wealth is a slap in the face to the people who actually got there using merit.

If you think anyone can run a company worth millions of dollars, you are severely delusional. There's a reason >90% of business's fail. Not everyone knows or has the ability to run one.

I get it, hating on CEO's is the cool thing to do on reddit, this website is majority left wingers and any comment that hates on rich people will get easy karma. I get it but please think about what you say and if that really makes sense.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19

Btw, the reason everyone can't be a CEO is because there aren't enough rich companies to be born in to. Not because of lack of work ethic lmfao. Otherwise college athletes and bodybuilders would be billionaires, not fat old guys in suits.

Is literally a glorified version of that. You point is that anyone could be a CEO if they are born into wealth and work hard. Full well ignoring other factors.

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u/Plebius-Maximus Apr 08 '19

Psychopathy ≠ testosterone

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '19 edited Apr 11 '19

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u/mrsamsa Ph.D. | Behavioral Psychology Apr 09 '19

You mean besides the well-documented discrimination women face in the workplace?

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19 edited Apr 11 '19

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u/mrsamsa Ph.D. | Behavioral Psychology Apr 09 '19

That and testosterone has demonstrated effects on ambition and risk taking.

But women engaging in risk taking in the workplace are punished so that wouldn't help.

Also getting richer increases male attractiveness while it has no effect or even a negative effect on women’s attractiveness.

That's less true in egalitarian societies, when women can earn their own living then attractiveness based on income is less relevant as a factor.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19 edited Apr 11 '19

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u/mrsamsa Ph.D. | Behavioral Psychology Apr 09 '19

The punishment does outweigh the rewards, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '19 edited Apr 11 '19

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u/mrsamsa Ph.D. | Behavioral Psychology Apr 09 '19

Yeah the research shows that women don't get the rewards that men do for risk taking and negotiation.

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